Author Topic: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?  (Read 12611 times)

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2011, 05:47:35 AM »
edit: I changed my mind. Wizards are way too damned complicated to play... It's more work than fun. :P
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 05:56:48 AM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

PipTheBlue

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2011, 08:56:02 AM »
My favorite unseen seer is to use swordsage and assassin's stance for the sneak attack and other shadow hand fun.  Earth dreamer and Dream dwarf also combine well with that stuff.
Haven't thought of that. I must admit I know very little of ToB and prefer to keep it simple. Unless you think I'll be extremely underpowered by taking a single rogue level.

dna1

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2011, 09:14:51 AM »
edit: I changed my mind. Wizards are way too damned complicated to play... It's more work than fun. :P

LOL ya thats why I said Medium optimization, and starting ECL 6.  For the reason that this way we can keep it simple and fun. The high levels of wizardry just gets insane. I personally dont have the time it takes to run a God Wizard game. I cant say for sure but Im guessing this game will run from levels 6-12? Its hard to say at this point but I know I personally dont want to take it to the extreme levels.

So as I suggested earlier this would be a good time to play something really fun, that maybe you havent tried because it wasent optimized enough.
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DrHorrible

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2011, 09:19:19 AM »
If I make some pregame crafting then I guess I'd be starting at 5th level cause of XP expenditure. Right?( expenditure?!  Laugh )
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Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2011, 10:14:22 AM »
Still trying to decide if I wanna go Illusionist 3 / Master Specialist 3, aiming for Shadowcraft Mage or Shadowcrafter (or both), taking arcane disciple to get the knowledge domain's spells so that I'm playing up that raven as a messenger/omnipresence as well as a trickster and illusionist or a beguiler who.... you know what, typing it out just made me realize how the extra skills and hd aren't really important.

Mixster

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2011, 12:15:06 PM »
If allowed, I wouldn't mind slapping on some levels of Revised Sorcerer, as it is strictly better than the classic sorcerer at the levels we will be playing. Then I probably wouldn't even need the kobold cheese.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2011, 03:40:30 PM »
I'm liking the messing with people idea. Currently looking at a "party buffer" in that I'll use Incantrix to toss my Metamagic's onto your spells for you. I'm also looking at possibly counterspelling, as the ability to buff your spells is limited. The problem is I don't see how to get around having to ready multiple actions a round. Well that and getting my dispel powerful enough to be able to actually counter spells. Any thoughts from you guys? How about our Abjurer, since I'd most likely be stepping on his toes if anyone's.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

sirpercival

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2011, 03:46:19 PM »
I'm liking the messing with people idea. Currently looking at a "party buffer" in that I'll use Incantrix to toss my Metamagic's onto your spells for you. I'm also looking at possibly counterspelling, as the ability to buff your spells is limited. The problem is I don't see how to get around having to ready multiple actions a round. Well that and getting my dispel powerful enough to be able to actually counter spells. Any thoughts from you guys? How about our Abjurer, since I'd most likely be stepping on his toes if anyone's.

http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-2396-reactive-counterspell.html will help a lot.  I'm so glad that someone is playing an Incantatrix!  I love Incantatrixes.  :D

Also helpful: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871214/Dispelling_38;_Counterspelling_Compilation
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 03:56:15 PM by sirpercival »
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[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2011, 03:55:06 PM »
that looks good enough, even if only once a round. Here is a follow up though. For Domain wizard do you have to pick one of the domains listed or can you pick a cleric's domain to gain the power associated with it? Looking at Inquisition domain to get bonus to dispel checks, and possibly time for imp. init. now.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

sirpercival

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2011, 03:59:08 PM »
I actually edited my post with the guide to dispelling, which suggests that Reactive Counterspell is NOT good, since you lose your action.  Check out that guide.  This will be a very mage-heavy game (obviously), so some of what they said about focusing on dispelling is not exactly applicable, but it's still very good advice.

As for domain wizard, even if you're allowed to pick a cleric domain you don't get the granted power.  However, the Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment feat (if you can fit it into your character BG) can give you that hefty +4.
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2011, 04:27:18 PM »
looked at the guide. It looks like Incantrix is incompatible with most of the stuff in there though. A lot of it focuses on being an abjurer and taking lost of master specialist or I7V or just being a cleric. So I think I could still make a decent counterer, but not a great one.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

DrHorrible

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #71 on: October 04, 2011, 04:34:25 PM »
I'm liking the messing with people idea. Currently looking at a "party buffer" in that I'll use Incantrix to toss my Metamagic's onto your spells for you. I'm also looking at possibly counterspelling, as the ability to buff your spells is limited. The problem is I don't see how to get around having to ready multiple actions a round. Well that and getting my dispel powerful enough to be able to actually counter spells. Any thoughts from you guys? How about our Abjurer, since I'd most likely be stepping on his toes if anyone's.

No problem for me. I'm focusing on Abjuration, but I guess I'll be a more a fill-in-the-gaps type of Wiz. I'll be making items for the party and I'll try to get as many spells in my book as I can. As we advance I'll be taking the best Abjuration spells and I'll join in in the buffin'.

Just so you get the idea, my dream Wiz is one that has his own plane where he keeps his laboratory, a Wiz that will take Ice Castle, just because it's that cool.

You guys optimize, I'll be the one crafting and learning dumb spells in the background.   :lmao

One question for the DMs: Do Extraordinary Artisan and Magical Artisan stack?
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #72 on: October 04, 2011, 05:00:19 PM »
Ok here is one for the DMs. Divine defiance FC2 pg 83 has the following pre-reqs: Divine Caster level 3rd, ability to turn or rebuke undead.

Would Illumian Krau sigil be enough to qualify for it with 1 level of cleric? The guide seems to say there is some controversy on it and to ask your DM of Practiced spellcaster works, which the Krau is a lesser form of PS anyway.

Currently eyeing something along the lines of Abjurer1/Cleric 1/master spec 3/Incantrix 1 to start off, assuming I can make all of my feats work out. That lets me get to level 7 Inc. if we stop play at about level 12 as was mentioned.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

sirpercival

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #73 on: October 04, 2011, 05:12:32 PM »
looked at the guide. It looks like Incantrix is incompatible with most of the stuff in there though. A lot of it focuses on being an abjurer and taking lost of master specialist or I7V or just being a cleric. So I think I could still make a decent counterer, but not a great one.

Well, the master specialist is for the Minor Esoterica at 4th (which gives you a competence bonus on dispel checks equal to half your CL) and the abjuration CL boost at 6th.  And I7V is the grandaddy of all abjuration PrCs.  HOWEVER, since you want to do more than just maximize your dispelling, you should definitely go with Incantatrix because it's basically wizard++.

Depending on how else you want to approach things, you could go either:

~~Dispel-focused build~~
Abjurer (not focused) 3/MS 4/Incant 10/MS +2/Archmage 1 (or with early entry, Abj 2/MS 4/Incant 10/MS +2/Archmage 2)

With the planar touchstone feat for +4, and the early entry method for an extra spell power, your dispel check would be: 10 (arcane mastery) + 10 (levels) + 4 (inquisition) + 11 (minor esoterica) = 35, which should be enough for most spells and you would be able to boost that with some buff spells (that you could persist).  At level 6 w/ early entry you would have 10 (arcane mastery) + 6 (levels) + 4 (inquisition) + 3 (minor esoterica) = 23, enough to counter or dispel 12th-level casters, which is double your own ECL.  Even without the Planar Touchstone feat you could still auto-succeed with Dispel Magic on anything cast by CL 8 or lower.

~~Diviner-focused builds (to know what to do in any situation)~~
Illumian Binder 1/Diviner 1/Anima Mage 3/Incantatrix 10/AM +5
Dream Dwarf Diviner 3/MS 2/Incant 10/Earth Dreamer 5

~~I7V build~~
Abj 2/MS 3/Incant 8/I7V 7

I'm not the expert on debuffs... you could do a fear build, or an enchanter...  but I really like the abjurer/incantatrix who dispels/counters, metamagic effect --> sculpt spell or seize concentration or snatch spell to basically take over everything they're trying to do.  That sounds really irritating for enemy spellcasters.  And, you can persist our own buffs with cooperative metamagic.
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

sirpercival

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2011, 05:16:20 PM »
Ok here is one for the DMs. Divine defiance FC2 pg 83 has the following pre-reqs: Divine Caster level 3rd, ability to turn or rebuke undead.

Would Illumian Krau sigil be enough to qualify for it with 1 level of cleric? The guide seems to say there is some controversy on it and to ask your DM of Practiced spellcaster works, which the Krau is a lesser form of PS anyway.

Currently eyeing something along the lines of Abjurer1/Cleric 1/master spec 3/Incantrix 1 to start off, assuming I can make all of my feats work out. That lets me get to level 7 Inc. if we stop play at about level 12 as was mentioned.

I'd be all for that working, you could end up with something like (out of order):

Illumian Abj 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/MS 4/Incant 10/Archmage 4 or Sacred Exorcist 4 (to get more turns and still advance abjurer spellcasting)
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #75 on: October 04, 2011, 05:31:44 PM »
the bonus from master specialist is only half of your class level not caster level, so not a huge bonus. I'm just trying to get to Inc. as fast as possible so I can terrorize our enemies by making spells cast by the rest of the team better if possible. The fact that master spec. also gives a free skill focus spellcraft is just icing. Other than that it is better than dead levels of wizard.
Here is the lay out:
Abjur 1/Cleric (or cloistered) 1 (Inq. & 1 other domain)/MS Abj. 3/Inc. 1
Feats: Imp. Sigil Krau (1), Iron Will (Oty. Hole), Spf Abj. (flaw), 1 metamagic (flaw), Divine Defiance (3), Magic Disruption (6).

The first 4 are for pre reqs. DD lets me pop off a turn in order to be able to counter without a readied action, MD is a +1 to abj and lets me try reduce the DC & CL of opposing spells all day if they fail a conc. check.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

sirpercival

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #76 on: October 04, 2011, 05:41:29 PM »
the bonus from master specialist is only half of your class level not caster level, so not a huge bonus. I'm just trying to get to Inc. as fast as possible so I can terrorize our enemies by making spells cast by the rest of the team better if possible. The fact that master spec. also gives a free skill focus spellcraft is just icing. Other than that it is better than dead levels of wizard.
Here is the lay out:
Abjur 1/Cleric (or cloistered) 1 (Inq. & 1 other domain)/MS Abj. 3/Inc. 1
Feats: Imp. Sigil Krau (1), Iron Will (Oty. Hole), Spf Abj. (flaw), 1 metamagic (flaw), Divine Defiance (3), Magic Disruption (6).

The first 4 are for pre reqs. DD lets me pop off a turn in order to be able to counter without a readied action, MD is a +1 to abj and lets me try reduce the DC & CL of opposing spells all day if they fail a conc. check.

Rock on, looks awesome.  Purification domain gives +1 CL on abjuration spells but I think Planning might be even better -- Extend Spell, and then you can take Persist if you want.  However, to really make Persisting work you'll need an Item Familiar to rock out on spellcraft checks.  And maybe our crafter can make you an item of Divine Insight... :D
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #77 on: October 04, 2011, 05:52:28 PM »
Would trading my regular familiar for an item familiar be ok? I know it would be a house rule and not RAW, but just tossing it out there, especially since I don't really like have a squishy familiar in the first place.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

sirpercival

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #78 on: October 04, 2011, 05:56:43 PM »
Would trading my regular familiar for an item familiar be ok? I know it would be a house rule and not RAW, but just tossing it out there, especially since I don't really like have a squishy familiar in the first place.

You could trade it out for the "Eidetic Spellcaster" ACF from dragon 357, to not have a spellbook.  No need for spell mastery, unless you want Uncanny Forethought.
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #79 on: October 04, 2011, 06:01:15 PM »
That will probably work then. I may just drop Magic Disruption for Item familiar too. I don't have the Dragon Mags so I have no idea what ACFs they had. But lack of a spellbook sounds good. How does that interact with copying scrolls into your spellbook?
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren