Author Topic: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM  (Read 72895 times)

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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #300 on: October 17, 2011, 08:12:17 PM »
Ah! I was all wrong. That rule I was quoting was talking about CR from size increase, not HD increase. I was making an idiot out of myself. :blush
Actually it is ambiguous.  The bolded part could be referring to CR increases from advancing HD or from increasing in size.
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ImperatorK

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #301 on: October 17, 2011, 08:25:31 PM »
Ah! I was all wrong. That rule I was quoting was talking about CR from size increase, not HD increase. I was making an idiot out of myself. :blush
Actually it is ambiguous.  The bolded part could be referring to CR increases from advancing HD or from increasing in size.
True, but at least WE know what is meant.
"I'm done thinking for today! It's caused me enough trouble!"
"Take less damage to avoid being killed."
"In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."


[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

 Plus, where other clerics say "For Pelor," "For Nerull," or "For Crom?" You get to say, "FOR SCIENCE!" *fanfare*

About me:
Quote from: dark_samuari
I know your game, you just want a magical Amazon.com to knock off those good ol' honest magic shops run by polite, old wizards!
Use Iron Heart Surge on the sun. That'll teach him to use fluff as RAW.

Damn you! You totally ruined my build that was all about getting epic far shot early and throwing my enemies into the sun!
[/spoiler]

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #302 on: October 17, 2011, 08:30:32 PM »

True, but at least WE know what is meant.
No, we don't. It is completely ambiguous, and can legitimately be read either way. Unless there is more, relevant info that you didn't provide in your quote.
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Mooncrow

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #303 on: October 17, 2011, 08:38:56 PM »

True, but at least WE know what is meant.
No, we don't. It is completely ambiguous, and can legitimately be read either way. Unless there is more, relevant info that you didn't provide in your quote.

The part where it's from the "Adding Hit Dice" section, which is then followed by the "Increasing Size" section, might be fairly relevant.  As in, it's pretty clearly talking about HD and not size.

(I finally went and did a read through)

ImperatorK

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #304 on: October 17, 2011, 08:47:49 PM »
Guys, you're confusing me. :(

Quote
The part where it's from the "Adding Hit Dice" section, which is then followed by the "Increasing Size" section, might be fairly relevant.  As in, it's pretty clearly talking about HD and not size.
Quote
When you improve a monster by adding Hit Dice, use Table: Improved Monster CR Increase to determine the effect on the creature’s CR. Keep in mind that many monsters that advance by adding Hit Dice also increase in size. Do not stack this CR increase with any increase from class levels. In general, once you’ve doubled a creature’s CR, you should closely watch any additional increases in its abilities. Adding Hit Dice to a creature improves several of its abilities, and radical increases might not follow this progression indefinitely. Compare the monster’s improved attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and any DCs of its special abilities from the HD increase to typical characters of the appropriate level and adjust the CR accordingly.
It is the "Adding HD" section, but adding HD increases the size, that's why they mention it. And the next sentence is talking about the size increase, I think. OTOH when it talks about increasing size it doesn't say that it increases CR, although it could be assumed that they where assuming that you know that. >.> It's confusing and vague as hell. :banghead
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 08:49:46 PM by ImperatorK »
"I'm done thinking for today! It's caused me enough trouble!"
"Take less damage to avoid being killed."
"In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."


[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

 Plus, where other clerics say "For Pelor," "For Nerull," or "For Crom?" You get to say, "FOR SCIENCE!" *fanfare*

About me:
Quote from: dark_samuari
I know your game, you just want a magical Amazon.com to knock off those good ol' honest magic shops run by polite, old wizards!
Use Iron Heart Surge on the sun. That'll teach him to use fluff as RAW.

Damn you! You totally ruined my build that was all about getting epic far shot early and throwing my enemies into the sun!
[/spoiler]

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #305 on: October 17, 2011, 08:49:04 PM »

True, but at least WE know what is meant.
No, we don't. It is completely ambiguous, and can legitimately be read either way. Unless there is more, relevant info that you didn't provide in your quote.

The part where it's from the "Adding Hit Dice" section, which is then followed by the "Increasing Size" section, might be fairly relevant.  As in, it's pretty clearly talking about HD and not size.

(I finally went and did a read through)
Gotcha.  So don't stack class levels with HD increases.  But do stack size increase CR boosts to both that from class levels and HD increases.
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Mooncrow

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #306 on: October 17, 2011, 08:54:47 PM »
Guys, you're confusing me. :(

Quote
The part where it's from the "Adding Hit Dice" section, which is then followed by the "Increasing Size" section, might be fairly relevant.  As in, it's pretty clearly talking about HD and not size.
Quote
When you improve a monster by adding Hit Dice, use Table: Improved Monster CR Increase to determine the effect on the creature’s CR. Keep in mind that many monsters that advance by adding Hit Dice also increase in size. Do not stack this CR increase with any increase from class levels. In general, once you’ve doubled a creature’s CR, you should closely watch any additional increases in its abilities. Adding Hit Dice to a creature improves several of its abilities, and radical increases might not follow this progression indefinitely. Compare the monster’s improved attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and any DCs of its special abilities from the HD increase to typical characters of the appropriate level and adjust the CR accordingly.
It is the "Adding HD" section, but adding HD increases the size, that's why they mention it. And the next sentence is talking about the size increase, I think. OTOH when it talks about increasing size it doesn't say that it increases CR, although it could be assumed that they where assuming that you know that. >.> It's confusing and vague as hell. :banghead

Well, grammatically, it's a terrible paragraph from any point of view.  What I think they're trying to say is: "When you improve a monster by adding Hit Dice, use Table: Improved Monster CR Increase to determine the effect on the creature’s CR. 1. Keep in mind that many monsters that advance by adding Hit Dice also increase in size. 2. Do not stack this CR increase with any increase from class levels."  At least, that's what it would be in a properly constructed paragraph.  But I will grant you that that's not a safe assumption to make :p

Bard

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #307 on: October 18, 2011, 01:45:47 AM »
Q102: Is there any way to "improve" sheathing a weapon? (For Iaijutsu Focus) Like not provoking AoO, or doing it as a part of movement or better as a swift action.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 02:27:58 AM by Bard »
[Spoiler]
His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
[/spoiler]

Mooncrow

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #308 on: October 18, 2011, 02:22:15 AM »
Q101: Is there any way to "improve" sheathing a weapon? (For Iaijutsu Focus) Like not provoking AoO, or doing it as a part of movement or better as a swift action.

A102 Aside from Quickrazor?  I don't know of any official ways, but most DMs I know allow Quick Draw to work both ways.  

« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 02:42:53 AM by Mooncrow »

Bard

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #309 on: October 18, 2011, 02:34:45 AM »
Q101: Is there any way to "improve" sheathing a weapon? (For Iaijutsu Focus) Like not provoking AoO, or doing it as a part of movement or better as a swift action.

A101 Aside from Quickrazor?  I don't know of any official ways, but most DMs I know allow Quick Draw to work both ways.  

(technically, this is 102 though^^)
Fixed.
Also yes, without Quickrazor, I wanted to go Iaijutsu Master and keep the flavor of the class (I know an Aptitude Quickrazor would MAYBE work, but a gnome with a strange weapon doesn't really fit the idea)
Quickdraw doesn't work, we're pretty strict on the rules :\
[Spoiler]
His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
[/spoiler]

Mooncrow

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #310 on: October 18, 2011, 02:45:12 AM »
Q101: Is there any way to "improve" sheathing a weapon? (For Iaijutsu Focus) Like not provoking AoO, or doing it as a part of movement or better as a swift action.

A101 Aside from Quickrazor?  I don't know of any official ways, but most DMs I know allow Quick Draw to work both ways.  

(technically, this is 102 though^^)
Fixed.
Also yes, without Quickrazor, I wanted to go Iaijutsu Master and keep the flavor of the class (I know an Aptitude Quickrazor would MAYBE work, but a gnome with a strange weapon doesn't really fit the idea)
Quickdraw doesn't work, we're pretty strict on the rules :\

The only by-RAW way I know of to "sheath" a weapon as a free action would be Gloves of Storing/Gloves of the Master Strategist - but I'm not sure that would count for Iajutsu Focus =/

Bard

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #311 on: October 18, 2011, 03:00:43 AM »
The only by-RAW way I know of to "sheath" a weapon as a free action would be Gloves of Storing/Gloves of the Master Strategist - but I'm not sure that would count for Iajutsu Focus =/

Oh well, if I can't avoid an AoO better make good use of it... Robilar's Gambit, here I come!
Just to be sure I'll check if there's some spell/power that does it and that I can craft into the scabbard.
Thanks anyway

Edit:
I was reading Karmic Strike, and it confuses me to no end so, while I'm sorry to ask 2 questions in a row,  I must ask...
Q103: Karmic Strike doesn't state any exception to the rule of AoO that states "AoO resolve before the action that provoked them", while Robilar's Gambit does. That means that if you use the AoO you get to use Evasive Reflexes, Sidestep, Knockback (knockdown?), just kill the enemy or something similar then the damage is prevented? (as in: the weapons hits you but you stop it before it does actual damage)
I'm a bit confused since it talks about a "successful attack" but again, a successfull attack doesn't necessarily deal any damage.. it just hits.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 03:20:25 AM by Bard »
[Spoiler]
His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
[/spoiler]

McPoyo

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #312 on: October 18, 2011, 03:18:05 AM »
correct
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
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Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
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[/spoiler]

zook1shoe

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #313 on: October 18, 2011, 03:38:18 AM »
Q75How does the spell "Steeldance" work with a caster like Spirit Shaman, that has two primary stats?

Bump

Kuroimaken

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #314 on: October 18, 2011, 03:46:37 AM »
Q101: What's the best (as in most optimized) way to reproduce the Shining Finger?  :p
invisible spell fling bolt for some-obscene-:umber-d6-damage?
I was hoping for something with flashy plasma effects. On that note, I don't think there's a feat that gives thunder the effect that Searing Spell has for fire, or is there?
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For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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zook1shoe

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #315 on: October 18, 2011, 05:33:53 AM »
Add Spell Thematics to have it look like some shards of plasma

Littha

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #316 on: October 18, 2011, 11:26:44 AM »
Q101: Is there any way to "improve" sheathing a weapon? (For Iaijutsu Focus) Like not provoking AoO, or doing it as a part of movement or better as a swift action.

A101 Aside from Quickrazor?  I don't know of any official ways, but most DMs I know allow Quick Draw to work both ways.  

(technically, this is 102 though^^)
Fixed.
Also yes, without Quickrazor, I wanted to go Iaijutsu Master and keep the flavor of the class (I know an Aptitude Quickrazor would MAYBE work, but a gnome with a strange weapon doesn't really fit the idea)
Quickdraw doesn't work, we're pretty strict on the rules :\

Personal favourite is carrying 5 or 6 katana and just dropping them after the attack.

ImperatorK

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #317 on: October 18, 2011, 03:40:52 PM »
Q104: Can someone point me to handbooks with ACFs or variants for Fighters, Swashbucklers, Samurais and Knights? I need all the options for them.
"I'm done thinking for today! It's caused me enough trouble!"
"Take less damage to avoid being killed."
"In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."


[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

 Plus, where other clerics say "For Pelor," "For Nerull," or "For Crom?" You get to say, "FOR SCIENCE!" *fanfare*

About me:
Quote from: dark_samuari
I know your game, you just want a magical Amazon.com to knock off those good ol' honest magic shops run by polite, old wizards!
Use Iron Heart Surge on the sun. That'll teach him to use fluff as RAW.

Damn you! You totally ruined my build that was all about getting epic far shot early and throwing my enemies into the sun!
[/spoiler]

sirpercival

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #318 on: October 18, 2011, 03:54:56 PM »
Q104: Can someone point me to handbooks with ACFs or variants for Fighters, Swashbucklers, Samurais and Knights? I need all the options for them.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7908

Q105: Do Mauling Gauntlets (soulmeld) apply their bonus to grapple checks as well?

Q106: If you have the Scorpion's Grasp feat (Sandstorm) and the Ring the Golden Bell feat (dragon compendium, dragon 319), can you grapple opponents with an unarmed strike at range??
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 05:09:17 PM by sirpercival »
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[spoiler]
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[/spoiler]

Mooncrow

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Re: Simple Q&A 29: The CR 5 Gargantuan Dragon of DOOM
« Reply #319 on: October 18, 2011, 05:11:16 PM »
Q107  Was there ever any official/semi-official clarification on Frostburn's boreal winds spell regarding if the damage persisted after the first round?