Lvl 20, Most-Mass-Heals-per-day 'Healer' build

[bernsten69]

Ok, so I need a level 20 UBER healer that can keep the party alive at all costs.  That means the MOST MASS HEALS, AS OFTEN and as QUICKLY as possible.  (think out of the box even - can we possibly get a chained revivify in the works?)

No, I don't want to hear about your theory that I can help kill the enemies before they hurt us (that just means your GM SUCKS); No I don't want to hear about some invulnerable combo that any rational GM will disallow; so without further adue, here are the restrictions:

Level 20 Elf or Dwarf (No dwarven based classes - or at least not untill level 19).  I can have 2 base classes (or more, but watch those xp penalties) and 2 prestige classes.  (The concept needs to make sense)  To take the second prestige class, I must finish (take all levels in) the first.  (I MIGHT be able to get a 3rd if I finish the other 2) The flavor is a 'priest' who was corrupted at one point and is now on his way to redemption (no I don't want to be undead and heal with negative energy).  Gods are BOTH Moradin and Corellian.  Weird prestige classes that make no sense (eg rainbow savant, radiant servant of pelor, are disallowed).  Basically, imagine an Elf stuck in an enclosed area/temple for a thousand years, torturing those of different faiths.

Books: Core, Complete Books, Exhalted, BoVD, RoS, UA (but not everything in UA), Spell Compendium, MIC, Heroes of Horror, Heroes of Battle, PHb2, Monster Manual 1-5, Miniatures, Cityscape, Dragon Magic, DMG2, Fiendish Codex I&2, Frostburn, Libris Mortis, RoD, RoW, Sandstorm, Tome of Magic, Draconomicon, Dungeonscape (I think that is it)

NO ITEMS - That means NONE - ZERO - DON'T CONSIDER THEM.  I have a fixed list of items and none of them relate to divine casting or even my character concept.

My Primary role is being a Healer.  What this means: I need to output as many mass heals as often and as fast as I can.


Some starting suggestions of my own:

Use the Healer class from the Miniatures handbook gets me mass heal as a level 8 spell. (take 1 level of cleric for turn attempts?)

Use the UA spontaneous divine caster variant to get an extra spell/level.

Take the Combat Medic prestige class to get a sanctuary on party members every round (good for overall protection).

Use a combination of Residual Magic (feat) and Divine Metamagic:Repeat spell to cast repeating Mass Heals and get free extra repeating Mass heals.  (EG, round 1: cast a repeating Mass heal, Round 2: Mass heal goes off, delay until end of round, cast a mass heal that is repeating for free due to residual magic)

Take the Protection Devotion to get a sacred bonus to everybody's ac???

Take contemplative to get extra domains (added to spell list since I may NOT be a cleric + extra possible turn attempts with, eg, earth domain)

Any good feats that add special effects to my heal spells and make them more powerful/add good kickers.

Aren't there some nice draconic heritage/bloodline feats that I can boost my spells with if it is a spontaneous divine caster?

Isn't there a feat somewhere that I can 'bond' a person by using a turning attempt, so I can cast touch spells at a range by expending a turning attempt? - Good for revivify etc.


Basically, I need an UBER healer who can do some nifty protective things for the party overall (think Sanctuary, repulsion, Anti-Life Shell + greater spell immunity:Anti-Life shell etc.)



Here is a sample combat to let you know what we are up against:

1. Scouts attempt to scout ahead, bring back information on the size and shape of the rooms - didn't see anybody - when they were scouting, a ton of contingent spells went off and they were lucky to return alive.

2. We arrive at the location with a strategy based on the lay of the land (military formation) and our strengths and the known defenses/resources of the enemies.  What we are greeted with: 40+ NEW hallways made with walls of stone all over the place, traps every 5 ft, contingent spells in every square.

3. What we do: blast a 50ft hallway straight through with disintegrates, maintain our close formation with our counterspellers readying their actions and using anti-life shell to keep melee away from us.

4. What happens in response? 4-5 Mordenkainen's Disjunctions were thrown at the party, getting rid of all of our buffs, then various non-magical substances, from bugs with high poison, to contact poison were lobbed at the party.  THEN, a few guys ran up and cast an evil version of a sacrifice spell from the BoED that caused them to explode, dealing 50+ their HP total damage to everybody.  I died 3 times within 2 rounds there (Renewal Pact/Revivify/Contingency etc.).  They knew what type of attacks we had, and had defenses against them.  They focused on our most vulnerable (healers and casters), they used specialized tactics (Robilar's Gambit + that monk variant that deals double damage with each attack), they had cases of scrolls that their ppl with UMD were grabbing out and casting at us.  Our counterspellers were overwhelmed.  Sometimes, they would counterspell our healers, but not often.  They tried to isolate the fighters individually and pin them down.  They had HIGH SR and HIGH AC.  (We needed a dispeller, but the casters decided that that was a waste of time . . . DOH).

5. Half the party dies, one character blows everything he has (including artifacts) and makes a sacrifice to take out the BBEG . . . we BARELY kill the remaining guys . . . and then a wall of intelligent animated swords starts flying toward us . . . and we run.

6. Other misc. notes: almost always dimensionally locked.  Assume we are being scryed upon etc.  Assume buff spells will be dispelled fairly regularly.  Assume some players will be idiots and rush forward and get destroyed.  Assume 100+ damage per round against each member of the party, if not more. 

[spacemonkey555]

So nearly infinite nonstop aoe healing, no decent prcs, buffs, or items, no cheese? Oh and our dms suck?

A strange game, the only winning move is not to play.

[Gavinfoxx]

Sounds like you have a spy in your party. There's no way they could have known.  You should abort the operation, leave, and go kill the mole.



That, or have a sit down talk with your DM.

[Midnight_v]

No, I don't want to hear about your theory that I can help kill the enemies before they hurt us (that just means your GM SUCKS);

Your approach to asking for help seems off. . . 

[bernsten69]

Nope. There isn't a spy.  The NPCs are as smart as us.  Our DM has played military strategy games for years.  His view is, if they could do it (and its worth the cost), they would.  A lot of our gaming is gathering intelligence (and counter-intelligence) on our enemies.  That being said, our GM is VERY - live by the dice, die by the dice, and he is strict to the rules.  What this means: If the Pit Fiend rolls a 1 his saving throw, he's dead as a doornail or if you find a nifty spell that undoes everything that the npcs planned, it works!  However, whatever combos we come up with, the NPCs can use also, as well as anything else that is out there.  That guy eyeing you in the bar?  Yup, he works for the BBEG and is taking an inventory of items he can see on you.  That strange encounter with the seemingly weak mercenaries?  The BBEG just wanted to see what abilities you typically use in combat.  That mission to go get the X from the Y?  Yup, the BBEG just wanted you to piss off the Y group so he could ally with them.  

Our game is not for everyone.  I'd call it EXTREME gaming.  Our group consists of between 5-8 DMs (who are the players) who have each been playing a minimum of 20 years a piece.  If you can think of it, it has probably already been done numerous times in our game.  Create a resurrection franchise business with the Clone spell? Yes.  Economic warfare? Always.    Cause 2 nations to go to war with each other so that a certain territory is now unprotected?  you betcha.  Pornography distribution service?  Certainly.  I can't even count the number of Pimp characters that we have had - gives leadership a new meaning.  If we aren't using divinations to help us along the way, we're dead.  

The game is very much like a World of Warcraft end game raid.  You better bring your A game (or 2-3 backup characters).

So yes PLEASE help me min/max this healer.

[Maat_Mons]

I've reflected on this for a while, and here's the best I've got.  You play an arcane caster, use wyrm wizard (Dragon Magic) to add heal to your spell list as a 5th level spell (from the adept spell list), and use war weaver (Heroes of Battle) to make a single heal spell affect all your allies. 

A couple other things that cam to mind: Shugenja also has mass heal as an 8th level spell and isn't nearly as limited as healer.  Player's Handbook II has an alternative class feature for favored soul that lets you give all targets of a spell temporary HP equal to 3 times the spells level as a free bonus. 

[bernsten69]

No, I don't want to hear about your theory that I can help kill the enemies before they hurt us (that just means your GM SUCKS);

Your approach to asking for help seems off. . . 

For 1/2 of the threads asking about how to make a great healer, there are pages and pages of people going on about how you don't need a healer if you can kill your enemies first.  In campaigns where that happens, the DM is cheeseing down the NPCs to levels of animal intelligence.  That's like saying 'lets send in our marines without body armor because they can kill all of the enemy dead before they get shot at.'  My intent was to stop those individuals in their tracks that want to take this thread off topic.  Thanks for your help.  My question was how can we min/max a healer?

[Gavinfoxx]

"I must shoot him before he shoots me." -Rifleman's creed, United States Marine Corps.

[bernsten69]

I've reflected on this for a while, and here's the best I've got.  You play an arcane caster, use wyrm wizard (Dragon Magic) to add heal to your spell list as a 5th level spell (from the adept spell list), and use war weaver (Heroes of Battle) to make a single heal spell affect all your allies. 

A couple other things that cam to mind: Shugenja also has mass heal as an 8th level spell and isn't nearly as limited as healer.  Player's Handbook II has an alternative class feature for favored soul that lets you give all targets of a spell temporary HP equal to 3 times the spells level as a free bonus. 

AMAZING!  Sir, I have trouble thinking up ANY idea I have heard in D&D that is better than the wyrm wizard idea.  Plus, I can just give myself mass heal as a 8th level wizard spell!  4 times per day, I can heal the party as a move action through the weave, and it can't be countered, as it is an (SU).  AMAZING!!!!  With repeat spell and residual magic, this arcane caster will be the best healer I've ever played. 

[skydragonknight]

For Quality, there's always Favored Soul 12/Combat Medic 5/Contemplative 1+ (for Healing Domain)

Take Imbued Healing from Complete Champion.

Deity's Favor = 27 Temporary Hit Points (for a 9th level spell)
Healing Kicker (Maximized Aid) = 13 Temporary Hit Points
Imbued Healing = 20 Temporary Hit Points

= 60 Temporary Hit Points on each casting. (Yadda Yadda new castings only bring it back up to 60 etc etc)

[Rejakor]

Keep in mind that Quiescent Weaving is a great way to re-layer buffs...  Fighter types should be used to being dispelled/disjoined in this game and still be able to fill their role (free/swift action tower shield LOE denial, Balance On The Sky ubercharger, 100' reach lockdown tripper) while naked and dispelled (although holy crap, look into getting some Cheaters of Mystra onto the field.. or at least an erudite-or-ardent Timelord for oh-shit moments) so you are going to be looking at immunities and wards as opposed to damage or capability buffs.  So things like Death Ward, Energy Immunity, or hell, even a Dispel if they get debuffed/polymorphed etc.  Celerity lets you whip out a quiescent weaving when your foes don't expect it, and utterly nix their strat.  Of course... Celerity also lets you do other things, but it sounds like your general opponents have high level cheese like circle magic readied dispels and crap, so the SU quiescent weaving is the hardest-to-counter/best option.  They can hit the area with a second area dispel, but if your DM is playing fair, it's much less likely they'd have planned for that.

I'd suggest combining Celerity with Timestop to chessmaster some buffs every time the situation gets fucked, but I have no idea if that works and it'd probably get banned.

[Midnight_v]

Off hand can't the warlock be tricked into some kind of healer with eldridtch chain?

[Nunkuruji]

I've reflected on this for a while, and here's the best I've got.  You play an arcane caster, use wyrm wizard (Dragon Magic) to add heal to your spell list as a 5th level spell (from the adept spell list), and use war weaver (Heroes of Battle) to make a single heal spell affect all your allies. 

A couple other things that cam to mind: Shugenja also has mass heal as an 8th level spell and isn't nearly as limited as healer.  Player's Handbook II has an alternative class feature for favored soul that lets you give all targets of a spell temporary HP equal to 3 times the spells level as a free bonus. 

I second the Weaver. I'd normally suggest Recaster instead of Wyrm Wizard, but I don't think that's in your list of books. There is a block on divine adaptation, if need be, though it suggests it may be too strong. I think the consensus here is that it certainly is not.

[archangel.arcanis]

No, I don't want to hear about your theory that I can help kill the enemies before they hurt us (that just means your GM SUCKS);

Your approach to asking for help seems off. . . 

For 1/2 of the threads asking about how to make a great healer, there are pages and pages of people going on about how you don't need a healer if you can kill your enemies first.  In campaigns where that happens, the DM is cheeseing down the NPCs to levels of animal intelligence.  That's like saying 'lets send in our marines without body armor because they can kill all of the enemy dead before they get shot at.'  My intent was to stop those individuals in their tracks that want to take this thread off topic.  Thanks for your help.  My question was how can we min/max a healer?

There is a reason people prefer to kill first then heal. That being said I understand your theme is healing but still need to suggest a measure of prevention.

Especially if you are going into war weaver, consider spells that will prevent damage to your party. Healing is reactive and depends on the teammate surviving the attack, where as prevention is proactive and makes them survive. So consider what kind of things you are fighting and get a good guess as to what will be coming up. Stoneskin may be expensive but will likely prevent enough damage from a brute to allow the party to counter attack, and keep the initial target alive for a round. Energy immunity if you are going against something that likes to use elemental attacks, dragon's breath weapon anyone. Spell immunity and greater form if you are pretty sure the will be casters around. Prevention requires some guess work, but often is sufficient to make sure the character is still there to be healed once the fight begins.

[amalcon]

Off hand can't the warlock be tricked into some kind of healer with eldridtch chain?

Yes, this is with Eldritch Disciple.  They get a positive energy essence which costs a turn and heals living targets, so healing from glaive, cone, or chain.  The problem is getting blast damage up without using Hellfire Warlock (which would take away from normal Cleric levels).

As long as you're on the arcanist track, you can use Arcane Thesis.  Reach+Chain on an Arcane Thesis level 5 Heal is a level 7 Mass Heal, and a level 9 Repeat Mass Heal.  This can be done even lower if you can work in another metamagic cost reduction somewhere, but this build is getting pretty packed as it is.

Actually, Spontaneous Divination-Practical Metamagic could work...
Dwarf
Wizard 5/War Weaver 5/Wyrm Wizard 3/Wizard 7
ACFs:  Focused Specialist - Conjuration (drop Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy/Illusion), Spontaneous Divination
Feats: (1) Enlarge Spell, (3) Reach Spell, (6) Chain Spell, (9) Practical Metamagic: Chain, (12) Arcane Thesis: Heal, (15) Repeat Spell, (WB) Quicken Spell, (18) Practical Metamagic: Repeat

That's a level 6 Reach Enlarge Chain Heal, level 7 Reach Enlarge Chain Repeat Heal, and a level 9 Reach Enlarge Chain Quicken Heal.  If you can drum up another feat somewhere, that trivially gets down to to 6/7/8, with level 9 Reach Enlarge Chain Repeat Quicken Heal.  And that's in addition to the War Weaver heals.

edit: Forgot the Dragonblood subtype; I knew there was something missing.  It should be possible to squeeze in as a feat, and keep the basic concept, but not quite as well.

[JaronK]

Generally speaking "endless massive all day heals" and "no cheese" is mutually exclusive, since I'd call the former cheese.  But whatever.

Obvious choice from me based one what you've said is Archivist 3/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Tenebrous Apostate 5/Tainted Sorcerer 1, using the divine adaptation of Anima Mage and taking Tainted Sorcerer as soon as you can be absolutely sure you'll never fail a DC 15 fort save (not sure of how to do this without items, if nothing else there's luck feats) if the dip is allowed (that class has special rules that make it clear you're supposed to try to take one level and no more of it).

Priest?  Check.  Tainted by evil?  Check.  PrCs all finished and make sense?  Sure, the first two PrCs are just the ones for combining the two base classes, and the last one is a one shot "you are tainted by power" effect.  Crazy healing?  Sure, you'll get insane numbers of bonus spells to work with, you can easily cast Persistent Lesser Vigor or Vigorous Circle for all day healing, and you can use Persistent Consumptive Field (with a CF loop to get started) to get your caster level up to the point where you can tell these dispels to go screw themselves.  Remember to Extend your free persisted spells from Anima Mage so they last 48 hours, especially the Consumptive Field (recast the new one while the old one is in place to keep your caster level at the maximum of one under double your normal level).  Access to all those effects you wanted?  Check.  Questionable rule interpretations?  Not a one (though Consumptive Field looping might be pushing it, but you gotta end that dispel nonsense somehow right?).  And have a contingent teleport set up to dodge Disjunction when it's cast.  Furthermore, consider finding minor artifacts and just keeping them on you, so as to screw over the Disjoiners.  If you can somehow find them of course.  Note this class combo can also hook you up with the magic items you might want (in between disjunctions) by Gating or Planar Binding various creatures that come with gear, killing them, and stealing their gear.  Nothing fancy but it might be a temporary benefit.

JaronK

[SneeR]

No, I don't want to hear about your theory that I can help kill the enemies before they hurt us (that just means your GM SUCKS);

Your approach to asking for help seems off. . . 

For 1/2 of the threads asking about how to make a great healer, there are pages and pages of people going on about how you don't need a healer if you can kill your enemies first.  In campaigns where that happens, the DM is cheeseing down the NPCs to levels of animal intelligence.  That's like saying 'lets send in our marines without body armor because they can kill all of the enemy dead before they get shot at.'  My intent was to stop those individuals in their tracks that want to take this thread off topic.  Thanks for your help.  My question was how can we min/max a healer?

Just a word of advice: don't throw your weight around with 8 posts under your belt. Show a little humility and people will be a lot more willing to provide you insights rather than attack your ideas.

There was another guy who had a lot of great things to say, but he was a dick about saying them. He was called Sunic_Flames, and he got banned. He invented the term IP proofing, or Iterative Proofing, which is all about layering attack and defense so nothing ever hurts you. He believed the opposite of what you do, and was so verbal and offensive that he was booted.

Have you considered being Vecna-Blooded to prevent being divined? Or is that contrary to what your concept needs?

[Midnight_v]

Just a word of advice: don't throw your weight around with 8 posts under your belt. Show a little humility and people will be a lot more willing to provide you insights rather than attack your ideas.

+1
I read that and I kinda had "Hey, guy, fuck you", but instead I just didn't bother to give it much thought, cause I knew someone would help him anyway. The whole "your dm sucks" thing is kinda like why should we help you again?

There was another guy who had a lot of great things to say, but he was a dick about saying them. He was called Sunic_Flames, and he got banned.

Is that true? I thought he left of his own accord, when I saw all his posts deleted. How annoying. . .

[X-Codes]

For 1/2 of the threads asking about how to make a great healer, there are pages and pages of people going on about how you don't need a healer if you can kill your enemies first.  In campaigns where that happens, the DM is cheeseing down the NPCs to levels of animal intelligence.  That's like saying 'lets send in our marines without body armor because they can kill all of the enemy dead before they get shot at.'  My intent was to stop those individuals in their tracks that want to take this thread off topic.  Thanks for your help.  My question was how can we min/max a healer?

Actually, this is incorrect.  D&D is a game of rocket tag.  Going first means you should win the encounter, going second means you're almost certainly dead.  This is why Foresight is somewhat deserving of a 9th-level spell slot (even though getting it at 8th is possible and preferable), because it ensures that you act in the Surprise round, and this is why Celerity is looked so poorly upon, because it's an "I Win" button.  D&D is not an MMO where you're supposed to trade blows with an enemy for an extended period of time, nothing has the HP to deal with the kind of damage output that's possible in D&D.

You also seem to have a fundamental mis-understanding of how MMOs work.  In an MMO, the Healer is responsible for putting out more HPS than the DPS the tank is suffering over a long enough period of time that everyone else can do the damage necessary to kill the enemies.  That said, a Healer can rarely sustainably heal a character that doesn't have a signficant amount of damage mitigation as well.  For example, a Paladin in WoW will have, if memory serves, upwards of 60% physical damage mitigation in a Raid, and even if you're at only 50% mitigation, then the Healer has to put out 25% more HPS in order to keep you alive compared to that solidly-built Tank Paladin.

[SneeR]

Just a word of advice: don't throw your weight around with 8 posts under your belt. Show a little humility and people will be a lot more willing to provide you insights rather than attack your ideas.

+1
I read that and I kinda had "Hey, guy, fuck you", but instead I just didn't bother to give it much thought, cause I knew someone would help him anyway. The whole "your dm sucks" thing is kinda like why should we help you again?

There was another guy who had a lot of great things to say, but he was a dick about saying them. He was called Sunic_Flames, and he got banned.

Is that true? I thought he left of his own accord, when I saw all his posts deleted. How annoying. . .

Yeah, Meg takes it pretty seriously to at least have common decency. I agree.