Author Topic: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help  (Read 2563 times)

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Dusk Eclipse

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Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« on: September 28, 2011, 01:45:38 PM »
I just had a silly idea for a gishy character using the RSL for Changelings Dual specialization, the idea is to use the feat Human Heritage (RoD) to make the Changeling count as a human and be able to enter human paragon (the extra 4 skill points are great too.)

Now that depends you count Changeling as a half human (which I agree it is not) or a Human Descended character, which I think it is but I can't find any RAW to support it, so help?

So the build (if it works) would be something like this

Flaw: Human Heritage
Flaw: Able Learner (why not? it help us avoid a lot of troubles)
1 Human Paragon Combat Reflexes
2 Changeling Wizard (Dual Specialize in Illusion and Transmutation, banning Enchantment, Evocation and Necromancy) Trade Scribe Scroll for a fighter bonus feat, Power Attack seems a good option
3 Human Paragon 2 Extend Spell and Combat Casting (eventual entry into Abjurant Champion)
4 Human Paragon 3 Bonus ability score to Int
5 Wizard 2 (nothing interesting here to be honest)

I was thinking on dipping Fighter next to nab the proficiencies; but I am not sure. In any case I am taking suggestions, another option I was thinking was on a 3/4 BAB class that advanced casting at first level to nab 4 BAB and then go into Spellsword for a level before (finally) entering Abjurant Champion at level 7.

X-Codes

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 01:53:27 PM »
Unseen seer would work for the dip.

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 01:59:23 PM »
The problem I'm seeing is that I still won't get the proficiencies....

Why the hell does dragon slayer has BAB 5 as a pre-requisite... that would solve my problems so nicely  :banghead

Arz

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2011, 02:01:24 PM »
I'd stay in wizard for the 5th? sub level which allows you to reform your familiar. Gishing that with improved familiar allows you grab the best forms after divining the encounters. Much better than losing caster level for human paragon.

sirpercival

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2011, 02:06:56 PM »
Did you mean Combat Casting?  b/c that's the prerequisite for Abj Champ...
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Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2011, 02:12:40 PM »
Arz: Human Paragon gives me an extra feat, better HP, an ability increase and allows me to select my skills and increased Bab, for a gish I think it is worth it.

sirpercival: Dragonslayer 1 advances casting, gives fear immunity, has bab +1 and gives all proficiencies (weapon and armours) with save for the BAB requirement, neglible (Dodge, Iron will and 2 ranks in tumble) in short an awesome dip for any gish, but the requirements kill it, because then I could go into Abjurant champion at that point.

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2011, 03:47:20 PM »
Human Paragon isn't bad for gishes, it's just not that good.

Also, there's no good way to get into Abjurant Champion fast unless you decide you don't care about losing caster levels.

Human Paragon 3/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 1/Abjurant Champion 4/Wizard +0-1/Unseen Seer +7-8 nets you only 14 BAB, but has full casting.

sirpercival

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2011, 04:39:42 PM »
sirpercival: Dragonslayer 1 advances casting, gives fear immunity, has bab +1 and gives all proficiencies (weapon and armours) with save for the BAB requirement, neglible (Dodge, Iron will and 2 ranks in tumble) in short an awesome dip for any gish, but the requirements kill it, because then I could go into Abjurant champion at that point.

That's fine, but I meant the "Combat Casting" feat (required for AbjChamp), where you have Combat Reflexes.
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
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There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
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Rebel7284

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 04:48:15 PM »
You can get Iron Will for 3000 gold as a magical location.
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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 04:59:12 PM »
You can get Iron Will for 3000 gold as a magical location.
This is true.  Also, Dodge can lead to Elusive Target, which is a pretty nice feat if you're going to be in melee but not like getting hit.

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 05:17:07 PM »
@X-codesPoint taken, part of the silliness of my idea was to make a (close to) full caster with only one level of wizard (in part because some people have asked me to tone down my optimization) so a gish seemed the best option, besides I have been looking for an opportunity to play the Dual Specialist, and I am sure I have enough illusions to prepare in my slots (Silent image and mirror image will be golden I think).

Other thing to consider is that this is for a Pbp RHoD game, so I am no planning that far ahead (level 11 is the farthest the game goes IIRC)

I am no considering dipping Crusader at level  to get proficiencies and some maneuvers; it has also been brought to my attention that apparently by RAW all prestige classes give full IL (page 39 ToB) and if that is the case that dip at level 6 would nab me up to level 3 maneuvers (White Raven Tactics anyone?) as Human Paragon count as a prestige class.

Elusive Target is in Complete Warrior or Adventurer? I can't recall of-hand.

@sirpercival, Combat Casting was my level 3 feat since the start.

 @rebel: Since dipping Dragonslayer would be a moot point as I wanted it to get the proficiencies before dipping spellsword, I no longer need Iron Will

sirpercival

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2011, 05:19:00 PM »
@sirpercival, Combat Casting was my level 3 feat since the start.

What is this "reading" you speak of?  I know it not.
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2011, 05:25:16 PM »
Did you mean Combat Casting?  b/c that's the prerequisite for Abj Champ...


sirpercival: Dragonslayer 1 advances casting, gives fear immunity, has bab +1 and gives all proficiencies (weapon and armours) with save for the BAB requirement, neglible (Dodge, Iron will and 2 ranks in tumble) in short an awesome dip for any gish, but the requirements kill it, because then I could go into Abjurant champion at that point.

That's fine, but I meant the "Combat Casting" feat (required for AbjChamp), where you have Combat Reflexes.

@sirpercival, Combat Casting was my level 3 feat since the start.

What is this "reading" you speak of?  I know it not.

You asked if I meant Combat Casting instead of combat reflexes fine, if you check my build since the start I mentioned I would get Extend spell (as a normal 3rd level feat) and Combat Casting with my Human Paragon 2 bonus feat.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2011, 08:37:41 PM »
Combine dual specialist with focused specialist (from C.Arc), and double focused specialize in both illusion AND transmutation. Then get yourself a nice familiar and abuse the hell out of it with war weaver (from Heroes of Battle). Time to abuse the hell out of your buffs. Then after that, either go legacy champion (to continue progressing in war weaver past level 5) or shadowcraft mage to pump your illusions through the roof. Then hit initiate of the sevenfold veil to be virtually immune to anything that could possibly hurt you.

Your best bet is double-focused-specialist 3 (or 5, for Improved Familiar and changeling familiar ACF shenanigans)/war weaver 5, then whatever else you want after that.
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sirpercival

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Re: Dual Specialize Illusionist/transmuter Changeling gish help
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2011, 09:51:04 PM »
You asked if I meant Combat Casting instead of combat reflexes fine, if you check my build since the start I mentioned I would get Extend spell (as a normal 3rd level feat) and Combat Casting with my Human Paragon 2 bonus feat.

I know... I was making fun of myself for missing that in the OP.  :)
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]