How Do YOU Design Monsters?

[Tequila Sunrise]

[veekie]

Well, my personal process is:

1) Determine concept - E.g. Doppleganger Ooze
2) Determine required abilities - Shapechanging, intelligence, mimicry
3) Determine role from said abilities - Infiltrator, effectively an ambush attacker, with mimicry adding depth
4) Find a similar creature in existing media with CR below the targeted score, go with purpose rather than specificity - While thematically its an ooze base, it functions as an CR 5-10 infiltrator, so I take a succubus as the base.
5) Strip out inappropriate abilities - Out goes the aligned stuff
6) Add in the desired abilities - In goes shaping natural weapons, gills and stuff, as well as ooze traits
7) Eyeball it - Little weak for its CR
8) Bump its stats up so it hits, tanks and causes DCs like others of its level.

[RobbyPants]

I do it similarly to what Veekie does. Comparing to existing monsters is a good way to get a baseline.

Also, yes, I use the rules for types for HD, BAB, and saves. I have made up my own subtypes before if I need some specific rules changes. For example: I created an "unliving" subtype for undead when I created "infected" zombies.

[PhaedrusXY]

I do something similar to the others, but often after getting an idea of what abilities I want in the creature, I then think about how I could get those abilities by using/modifying an existing creature (adding a class level or template) and then just "re-skinning" it.

For example, I wanted a giant demonic bug that could tunnel up under a group of enemies, attack them all, grab one, and then pop back into the ground. What I wound up going with was an umberhulk with a level of cleric for Travel Devotion, the Whirlwind Attack feat, and something that granted Improved Grab (or maybe they already have that, I forget). I just described it as looking like a giant demonic beetle, and flavored the Travel Devotion as an inherent ability rather than something from a class. I never actually wound up using the Confusion gaze, but did add that into the description when a PC rolled really high on a Knowledge check to identify it.

Sometimes I look at an existing monster and think "That would be so much better if you just changed the feats around and used better tactics". So that's exactly what I do with it.

I definitely try to choose things with the correct CR, or at least close enough so that I can get there by adding only a few levels, hit dice, a template, etc. I still eyeball it to make sure it still seems like an appropriate CR after modifying it of course, since many of the CRs are completely bonkers as printed, especially if you start using templates and things like that.

[Sjappo]

I use a "character generator" mostly. It has al the OGL monsters and stuff in it as well. I grab a stat array (usually 15-14-13-12-11-10) and pick a race. After that I fiddle with what I got. The generator leaves all the skills and feats unpicked so I handpick them. Add and subtract racial HD or (N)PC classes. Change stats further around if racial modifiers fuck up the concept (casting Gargoyle in stead of a melee brute). If I really feel adventures I code up SA's as feats and add them.

The generator calculates a ballpark CR which is good enough form me. Sometimes the monster is stronger as expected. Sometimes weaker. But this is mostly due to how smart the players are playing at a given time or how rested I am on that particular moment.

Never really design monsters from scratch though. Always work from an existing chasis.

[dither]

For 3.x...

I look at high-level monsters because they tend to have the most interesting powers. I cherry-pick a couple powers that I think are pretty cool, then choose a creature type that's appropriate to the monster I want to make (usually aberration, construct, elemental, or undead) and give it hit dice equal to the APL of the party. (If there's a cleric, I usually give the thing turn resist/vulnerability +/-2 depending on whether I want to use them as a swarm or a solo.) If it doesn't get a Constitution score, I give it "N hit points per Hit Die" based on one of its other scores, like Charisma or Strength, as fitting.

Unless there's a specific spell or feat that's central to the creature concept, I ignore these completely.

Calculate 1-3 good ability scores to be 15 + APL. Everything else is pretty much 10 + APL.

[Tequila Sunrise]

There seems to be a lot of variation in how DMs go about this stuff. Everything from 'recycle & refluff' to 'start with a blank stat block' and 'follow all the rules' to 'follow rules when convenient.' Good stuff.

One reason I started this thread is that occasionally I read discussions about monster making, and someone will say something like "Oh, I base SR on the monster's CR." And someone will reply "But that's such a gamist thing to base SR on!" Which sounds weird to me, because to my way of thinking, anything that SR is based on is likely to be gamist. Including hit dice, even though a lot of gamers seem to view HD as some sort of simulationist value.

Anyway, what do you think? Is it anathema to base stuff directly on CR?

8) Bump its stats up so it hits, tanks and causes DCs like others of its level.

How do you decide what DC is appropriate for the monster's CR?

Calculate 1-3 good ability scores to be 15 + APL. Everything else is pretty much 10 + APL.

APL = Adjusted Party Level?

[PhaedrusXY]

Anyway, what do you think? Is it anathema to base stuff directly on CR?

Hell no. It was piss-poor game design to base things off hit dice in the first place, in a game where hit dice are barely correlated with CR.

[veekie]

How do you decide what DC is appropriate for the monster's CR?

Personally. Look at the PCs saves. Good save + tertiary ability or Bad save + primary ability should make it about 50% of the time, Resistance bonuses inclusive.

[Unbeliever]

@DCs
I start w/ what PCs could do, and then adjust a little bit if it's a boss battle, will have minions, and the level of challenge I'm aiming for. 

PCs are designed for DCs at 10+1/2 level+stat.  So, at 10th level you can assume a decently-built (and those are the only ones we allow at our table usually) to churn out DCs of roughly 21-23.  A CR 10 monster should be in that neighborhood.  If it's a "boss fight" and they are fighting 1 higher-CR monster, then it will get adjusted b/c it will be like a CR 13 or whatever monster.

Overall,
I also tend to max or max + double hp.  And, I probably punch it up 1 or 2 CR just for a baseline.  I don't like going higher than that, though, since the ACs, save DCs, and other numbers things just get out of hand. 

Besides that, I only tend to tweak feats, or sometimes an ability or template that I really want or that really fits.  Mostly, I'm lazy, so I want to use as much of the Monster Manual as possible, except for those rare occasions where I have to scratch build a monster, like a lich. 

[dither]

Calculate 1-3 good ability scores to be 15 + APL. Everything else is pretty much 10 + APL.

APL = Adjusted Party Level?

I usually say "Average" Party Level, but I assume they mean the same thing in this circumstance.

It means that when the party is 1st level, the creature (monster or NPC) will have a couple 16s, but mostly 10s. At 15th level, the creatures will have a couple of 30s, and mostly 25s. Your typical 15th-level creature has, like, 170-220 hit points, if they use d8s for Hit Dice, +18-21 for an attack bonus, and DCs of 24-27. It's been a while since I played 3.5, I don't remember how those numbers stack up against the averages.

[Rejakor]

1.  Determine what I need. (specific thing the party has heard described, or something more general like 'Arcane Corrupted Area Guardian')
2.  Put together a concept.  (Lightning Eagle, Corrupted Black Dragonspawn, Chair Beetle Assassin)
3.  Determine what the party can do/what the thing needs to do to be a credible threat. (not get instantly owned by BFC, be able to handle a charger somehow, etc etc)
4.  Write down a set of stats/special abilities that seem to do that.
5.  Arbitrarily assign a number of HD that works best with how many hp, saves, and BAB I want it to have.
6.  Squidge numbers to fit the stats I want it to have.
7.  Check it to make sure it isn't too powerful/too weak/I haven't forgotten anything.



Usually i'm doing this to make a mini-boss or as part of a larger encounter design.  Rarely do I run a non miniboss encounter with fewer than a dozen enemies, and at higher levels hundreds of minions and several real threats.

[TenaciousJ]

I like sticking a level or two of the ToB classes on intelligent monsters.  The book is so full of useful counters if you want to add a bit of unpredictability to what tactics a monster can pull out.

[bhu]

1: Come up with a concept.  You already know what type and abilities it will have from this

2: Pull a set of stats from your ass

3: Bullshit your way through coming up with a CR by comparing it to similar critters in the MM

4: Ask (sometimes futilely) for feedback

5: Adjust as necessary

[ksbsnowowl]

I have a concept I want to build, so the first thing I do is find something somewhat close that already exists within the rules.  Then I look at what feats or templates I can give it to make what I want, all while staying within the mechanical rules (fluff can jump out the window in this instance).  For this purpose, I'll often ignore type requirements for templates or feats if it gets me what I want.

This will get me 99% of everything I want to build.

For example, I want to build a "Sea Troll" with regeneration that fits the mythological concept - a massively large troll that was rarely seen, but for a large arm that would reach onto the deck of a ship and pluck people off and drag them under water.

A creature that does this already is the Kuo-Toa Leviathan from Underdark.  Add the half-troll template (Fast healing 5), along with the Troll-Blooded feat (Regen 1/Fire, Acid).  I end up with a Huge Giant, with claw attacks, improved grab, swallow whole, and a great swim speed (50 ft), all for CR 17.

I build monsters for what they are.  There are dangerous things in the world, regardless of if my PC's are ready for them or not.