[PF] Jade Regent Character

[Sobolev]

Still kicking around ideas for Jade Regent, an adventure path my DM plans to run this semester.  The rules thus far are 20 point buy, run non-PHB races by the DM, and you get one trait which much come from the Jade Regent Player's Guide.  The party so far is shaping up to be Magus, Oracle, Skill Monkey, and my Cleric.  I'm not sure what the Oracle has planned but I figure one of us needs to stand at the front.  I was originally just going to make a Full BAB class, but Cavalier looks weak, Barbarians don't interest me, Fighters have all the same problems as always, etc.  I have run the Oread race by the DM and he has approved them as well as agreeing that they have Slow and Steady which is either as intended or is a result of James Jacobs using an unfortunate phrase from the English language here.  Either way, the DM has given me Oread with Slow and Steady.

20 Point Buy AFTER Racial Adjustment
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 07
WIS 18
CHA 10

So I'm going for some front line fighter of some type, however I've seen someone play (poorly) a similar Inquisitor and he spent the first three rounds of combat buffing and by the time he was "ready" for combat the combat was over.  I hope to not fall in to the same trap and I hope that 18 starting Wisdom is high enough that spell casting can be a major focus.  Normally with primary casters like Wizards I go for the big 2-0 but I think that's simply not possible here.  I also considered Dwarf, but that would give me 16 Con and 14 Str and I find 14 Str an unacceptable attacking stat.  I didn't immediately see a way to get higher without compromising other stats even further.  I also considered Human, but it had a similar problem, though it did give me a bonus feat and 1 more skill point per level.  I think Human is still in the mix, but I have written off Dwarf unless there is a Melee Cleric Prestige Class that is Dwarf only or something.

My deity so far is Gorum, I like War (Tactics) and he gives a good weapon proficiency.  I wish I could get Plant (Growth) because it is strong, but Separatist makes me lose my good proficiency.  Even still, it MIGHT be worth a feat, I haven't decided.  If I did that I would just use my level 1 feat to get Weapon Proficiency in Greatsword or Glaive or something.  Character thus far:

Sparda
Oread Cleric of Gorum 1
Destruction (Rage), War (Tactics)

HP 11 (1d8 + 2 Con + 1 Favored)

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 07
Wis 18
Cha 10

BAB +0
CMB +3
CMD 14

Feats:
Improved Initiative [1st]
**Power Attack [3rd]
**Heavy Armor Proficiency [5th]

Skills:
Perception 1/+5

Fort +4
Ref +1
Will +6

I could take Human to use my bonus feat on Weapon Proficiency, but that would most certainly give me Wisdom 16 instead which makes me nervous about anything involving a save. That would allow me to get Plant (Growth) domain however, which is incredible.  I look forward to hearing advice!

[X-Codes]

IIRC, the Magus is a light meleeist, and if your skill monkey is a Ranger then he can certainly fulfill that role, too.  You and the Oracle pull mostly from the same set of spells, don't you?  I think the one of you two that can do group buffing better should take the light melee role, and the one that has better variety in the way of save-or-sucks should do that.  You don't both need to get the astronomical Wisdom to cast repeated save-or-suck spells.

[Sobolev]

IIRC, the Magus is a light meleeist, and if your skill monkey is a Ranger then he can certainly fulfill that role, too.  You and the Oracle pull mostly from the same set of spells, don't you?  I think the one of you two that can do group buffing better should take the light melee role, and the one that has better variety in the way of save-or-sucks should do that.  You don't both need to get the astronomical Wisdom to cast repeated save-or-suck spells.

You are correct on Magus, but as far as I know they are a little soft.  The Skill Monkey threw out Rogue as a possibility but wasn't sure.  The Oracle is the player the least sure on what his plan is, so it's somewhat hard to coordinate with him.  I've been thinking about this some more, and I'm leaning toward Human or Half-Orc who worships Erastil at this point to get Growth, and going Separatist to get Tactics.  Half-Orc gives away some weapon proficiencies and Human could give me one with a feat I suppose. I do love feats.  I really like the idea of Tactics + Improved Initiative.


Sparda, the Hunter
Human/Half-Orc Cleric of Erastil 1 (Separatist)
Plant (Growth), War (Tactics)
   
HP 11 (1d8 + 2 Con + 1 Favored)
   
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 07
Wis 17
Cha 10
   
BAB +0
CMB +3
CMD 14

Attacks: Longspear, Morningstar, Spear

Feats:
Improved Initiative [1st]
XYZ [Human?]
**Power Attack [3rd]
**Heavy Armor Proficiency [5th]
   
Skills:
Perception 1/+4
   
Fort +4
Ref +1
Will +5

[X-Codes]

You really need to coordinate with the Oracle and see what spells he's going to take as spells known.  You both run off the same list, so if you overlap too much then one of you is going to feel mighty impotent.

[Sobolev]

You really need to coordinate with the Oracle and see what spells he's going to take as spells known.  You both run off the same list, so if you overlap too much then one of you is going to feel mighty impotent.

The player originally told me he was going to do Animate Dead type things, so I moved forward with the idea.  However, he has basically completed his character now and he is a 20 Charisma, save or suck spammer so I don't think I'll enjoy playing this cleric moving forward.  However, the party is coming together in a more permanent way with both the Oracle and the Magus saying their characters are "done".

The oracle is a low strength, high dex, max Charisma caster who is spamming debuffs.  The magus is a half-elf who is getting Bastard Sword proficiency.  He has strength 18, but has Con 12.  The final player is considering trying to adapt Gunslinger for a Crossbow.  I have absolutely no idea how that will work out, and have not contemplated it in the slightest.

Looks like I need to provide some muscle for this party, or at the least some Constitution.  The average Con score of the party is currently 11.  That made me reflect on the full BAB classes, but also summoner and druid as a way to provide some bulk.  The magus will definitely be in melee, but I don't think he'll be enjoying being hit, and I'm thinking of him more as a rogue than a tank.  The Oracle plans to stay as far from combat as possible, playing it like a Wizard.

Currently, I'm most seriously considering Summoner.  I like the idea of actually summoning things other than my Eidolon, but the Master Summoner archetype looks COMPLETELY unplayable.  Maybe at high levels circa SM5 it's okay, but at low levels I'm not excited for swapping my Eidolon for a Celestial Dog. 

I'm currently trying to decide between Human and Half-Elf, I sort of like the idea of leaving my Eidolon in the Aether some of the time so I don't know that trading 20 hp for 5 evolution points is a trade I want to make.  I also have no idea what to do with my actual CHARACTER.  The guide on GitP suggests not entering melee, but I don't think there are enough blasts and such to not contribute in some way.  Both archery and mounted combat seem too feat hungry for me, when I already need Spell Focus and Augment Summoning for the summons I so desperately crave.  Any thoughts going forward I would appreciate.

[veekie]

^^
What about the Archetype to fuse with your Eidolon?

[X-Codes]

Actually, Cleric is probably still your best bet, and an Oread one at that.  At 20 PB, consider the following stats after racial adjustments:

Str 18, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 10

If you focus on buffs, stuff like Bless and Divine Favor now, and Divine Power and Righteous Might later, then you have a decent shot at doing alright if you avoid save spells.

Of course, there is a serious lack of meat in this party... I would avoid Fighter, personally, but Barbarian could be worthwhile.

[veekie]

^^
PF Fighter focusing on Archery can be a pretty big pain disher. Deadly Aim and Rapid Shot really works out with the weapon group bonuses to hit and damage. And you can always full-attack. Which is a nice plus.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Party needs a meat shield, not an archer, though.

I suggest a variant of a build i'm planning out -- Oread Menhir Savant Druid X / Sohei Master of Many Styles Monk 1.  Use MoMS to pick up Crane Wing (after grabbing Crane Style with a normal feat slot) and you can survive in melee pretty well.  Wis to AC will hugely help you once you can wildshape (till then just wear armor), and also to tide you over till then you'll get proficiency with all simple and martial weapons and a slew of monk exotic ones.  Finally, always acting in the surprise round is handy.  I think it's worth the lost CL, most will disagree.

Once you get Natural Spell and anything else essential, consider picking up Dragon Style for the ability to basically charge (and thus pounce!) no matter what.

My idea was to get Feather subdomain for the spells and kick ass perception and just use Boon Companion to get the pet up to speed.  But that leaves you kinda bleh at level 1 and costs a feat, in your case probably better off to just take the animal companion right off the bat.  Between you with a scythe and your animal, you should be able to tank decently.


Alternatively, consider Paladin.  Kinda boring, but effective.  With swift action healing they're nearly unkillable.

[veekie]

Well, Archery is not exclusive with meat shielding, since PF Fighters can with Armor Training, boast pretty good ACs even while favoring archery with their feats. Point Blank Master lets you fire freely in melee.
And you can threaten while using a missile weapon the usual way, wear gauntlets.
Getting the enemy's attention won't be a big problem when you're dropping 1-2 guys per round in a salvo.

That said, the Paladin is an ungodly brick, with the mount giving mobility. Bonus if you use a gnome/halfling and get one that can take their mount indoors.

[X-Codes]

That said, the Paladin is an ungodly brick, with the mount giving mobility. Bonus if you use a gnome/halfling and get one that can take their mount indoors.

Gnome Paladins are pretty disgusting.  -2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha with Small Size is damn near ideal, the lost +1 to hit from Strength is made up for by being small, and the other bonuses are just amazing for Paladin abilities.  One of these dudes is the beatstick in our campaign, and, in spite of being not heavily optimized, he was breaking 30 damage on a charge w/ reach at level 3.  Almost took down a Bearded Devil single-handedly.

[Sobolev]

That said, the Paladin is an ungodly brick, with the mount giving mobility. Bonus if you use a gnome/halfling and get one that can take their mount indoors.

Gnome Paladins are pretty disgusting.  -2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha with Small Size is damn near ideal, the lost +1 to hit from Strength is made up for by being small, and the other bonuses are just amazing for Paladin abilities.  One of these dudes is the beatstick in our campaign, and, in spite of being not heavily optimized, he was breaking 30 damage on a charge w/ reach at level 3.  Almost took down a Bearded Devil single-handedly.

This sounds interesting actually, I'll look over that in a minute.  I also made a sample Summoner, not heavily optimized, but the idea of spamming Summon Monster 5 as an SLA to get a boat load of Lilends and Succubi amused me.  The concept was based on a 14 year old who thinks his summons are imaginary friends.  Accompanied by his Butler to keep him out of trouble, his Butler doubles as a skill-monkey because with Half HD it's going to be an underwhelming combat character at any level other than 1st.  I imagine much of the time the character will walk around alone, summon some monsters in combat, and then if encountering a problem or door or something he can summon up the Butler to "get him out of here".


Also, the stats are very balanced simply because with Summoner I didn't feel heavily pulled in ANY direction.  Even Charisma of 20 feels wasteful with so few spells that allow saves, a summon based focus, and the dumping of stats required to get it.  The more serious among us would drop Skilled [Profession (Butler)] for Skilled (Use Magic Device) which I obviously encourage picking up at later levels, when you might actually have a Magic Device to use.


Caleb, Summoner Inept
Human Summoner (Master Summoner)
Age: 14
"Have you met my imaginary friends?"
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 17

Improved Initiative [1st]
Spell Focus (Conjuration) [Human]
Augment Summoning [Master Summoner]

Spellcraft +5
Use Magic Device + 7
Linguistics +5

Guidance
Mending
Message
Read Magic

Grease
Enlarge Person


Jeeves, Butler Extrordinaire
Eidolon (Biped)
Age: ??
"Stay away from the young master!"

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 7
Wis 10
Cha 11

Evolutions: claws, limbs (arms), limbs (legs), Skilled (Perception),
   Skilled (Disable Device), Skilled [Profession (Butler)],

Profession (Butler) +12
Disable Device +13
Perception +12
Use Magic Device +4

[Sobolev]

That said, the Paladin is an ungodly brick, with the mount giving mobility. Bonus if you use a gnome/halfling and get one that can take their mount indoors.

Gnome Paladins are pretty disgusting.  -2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha with Small Size is damn near ideal, the lost +1 to hit from Strength is made up for by being small, and the other bonuses are just amazing for Paladin abilities.  One of these dudes is the beatstick in our campaign, and, in spite of being not heavily optimized, he was breaking 30 damage on a charge w/ reach at level 3.  Almost took down a Bearded Devil single-handedly.

If you have any other recommendations for making a Gnome Paladin, I am all ears by the way.  I've got some tabs open trying to figure out what would be done.  Are any of the Archetypes good?  How much Strength is enough?  16?  And how little Charisma can I get away with?

[veekie]

Most of the archetypes aren't so hot, though the Oath against Savagery can be pretty neat, it lets the paladin handle mobs better, at the cost of Divine Grace. Tacking a reach weapon on top makes your threatened field utterly ridiculous.

Stat-wise, you're likely looking at Str 16 Cha 14 before racial mods.
You use Cha for:
-Smite to-hit bonus
-Smite AC bonus
-Divine Grace
-Lay on Hands(this is pretty important at lower levels) uses
-Spellcasting.

In short, you're going to want quite a bit of it.

[StreamOfTheSky]

See if you can stack a Cavalier's Mount with Paladin's once you reach Paladin 5 for determining your effective druid level.  If so, consider starting as a Cavalier 2, if not you may still want (Emissary) Cavalier 1 just to help with starting feats.

Using gnome, your 20 point buy stats should be Str 12 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 7 Cha 18.

As an Emissary, you can start with a wolf mount (with free light armor proficiency) and Mounted Combat as a bonus feat (and the ability to move full speed in medium armor).  So you'll also have Ride-by Attack, and can have Spirited Charge by 3rd level.  Going to Cav 2 nets you an Order ability, but I'd only go to 2 if you can stack the levels for Paladin mount.  Otherwise, pick order based on the class skills and which has the least pain in the ass edicts, though by RAW the worst that happens for violating them is loss of your 1/day crappy chalenge ability.  DM might not like you breaking your edicts every day, though.

Some good orders:
[spoiler]Ronin ("Knight Errant"): Gives Know (local) and Suvival as class skills.  You get to make your own edicts, so just copy/paste the Paladin code you're stuck with anyway.  Has the BEST level 2 ability: basically Slippery Mind + reroll on stabilization checks.

Dragon: Perception and suvival are excellent class skills, especially Perception.  Edicts are super-easy for a Paladin to keep up.  Level  ability sucks hard, though, don't go to Cav 2 for it.

Cockatrice: Appraise and Perform aren't great, but at least they're not Paladin skills.  Putting yourself first may clash alot with Paladin.  Level 2 ability is solid awesome for Intimidation builds, which Paladin can be great at, but you'll lack the feats to do well.

Star: Neither class skill adds anything new.  But the edict is "be a paladin," and the level 2 ability gives you some stuff to do during a prep round should there be any, before a combat, and makes you fall one less level behind on lay on hands instead of 2.

Lion: The class skills suck for you, and the edicts require you to be some NPC's underling, bleh.  Only reason this is good is if the level 2 ability is unlimited use, and even then probably not.
[/spoiler]

Alternatively, Dragoon Fighter 1 trades the bonus feat for Mounted Combat and Skill Focus (Ride).  Basically, I just think you really, REALLY want that Spirited Charge by level 3 rather than level 5.

[StreamOfTheSky]

And maybe archer was the right idea.  Here's a new build idea.

Human Mobile Fighter
Str 14 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 7 initial, 20 Point Buy
AC: 20 (10 +5 armor +4 dex +1 buckler)
HP: 13 (d10 +2 con +1 favored class)

Feats:
1 Point Blank Shot
1 Rapid Shot [Human]
1 Weapon Focus (longbow) [Fighter]
2 Deadly Aim [Fighter]
3 Precise Shot
4 Weapon Specialization
4 Point Blank Master [Fighter - swapped Deadly Aim]
5 Deadly Aim
6 Manyshot
6 Clustered Shots [Fighter]
7 Nimble Moves

Feel free to switch the order on weapon focus, deadly aim, and precise shot.  Feel free to use any other feat in place of deadly aim at low levels - it's there to swap for PBM at level 4.

Equipment:
Longbow
Arrows
Kikko Armor
Buckler
Clubs
other melee weapons