Author Topic: [MtG] "Planeswalker Points"  (Read 2230 times)

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Nox_Noctis

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[MtG] "Planeswalker Points"
« on: September 07, 2011, 03:24:57 AM »
This is a discussion of the new tournament ratings system.

Primarily I want to focus on one concept, but this topic will entertain all issues related to it. The concept I want to discuss is the monetary effect of the new system.

Quite transparently the system encourages more tournament attendance, which means more revenue. That is not the point. That is the obvious fiscal benefit for the corporation.

But what about the effects of money from the player's standpoint?

What if, let us speak hypothetically, eight players planned to draft together. They find a small store that can handle match results quickly and post or announce pairings quickly as well. These eight players draft exclusively with one another to ensure no interference.

This is how they draft: after each paying, they receive their product. Each player blindly (figuratively) grabs the first card they can from each pack. That is, players pick for expedience rather than card quality. This makes the draft process take hardly any time. This process is repeated until each player has drafted a "deck." Deck construction takes no time. Each player uses all 45 cards drafted with no concern for adding lands.

The players are paired. For each match, players will alternate concessions. That is, each player will concede or not as predetermined by the group for each match. Thus players will win a predetermined amount of match points. The games will consequently proceed quickly. In the next draft, different players will concede and win as predetermined to balance/spread match points fairly (or not if the group decision is to improve certain players' scores).

The draft can be completely in minimal time, cards can be pooled and sold and proceeds split among the group. The cost of the draft is largely reimbursed as a result.

This process would allow players to conspire to gain match points at a rate far exceeding that of normal player's competing. This is cooperation. Game theory and money win.

The potential pitfall is the vagary of the term "bribery" as used in the MtG Tournament Rules. If this predetermination can be considered bribery -- which would seem to require that the point benefit be considered a "reward or prize," contrary to the examples provided in the Rules document, which consist of prizes of direct monetary or indivisible value such as cards, event invitations, or vacation offers -- then this plan is illegal in tournament play. Otherwise, this games the system.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: [MtG] "Planeswalker Points"
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 07:11:04 AM »
I think the major pratfall here is that no store owner would agree to that transaction if he knew about it in advance. In the current scheme of card design, it isn't uncommon for Draft players to open up $20 Mythics or better and then sell them back for more than what everyone paid for the Draft. The store ends up losing profit rapidly, and the scheme falls apart

Secondly, this requires 8 people hellbent on raising their scores and agreeing that nothing they open during the draft should take priority over those points. Earning the points rapidly won't mean a thing if you don't have the proper deck for the format a tourney is using. What's the point of having a PP score of >9000 if you had to sell every single dual land, planeswalker, or other tourney staple you needed for the Extended season, or worse, Modern?

While it could work in theory, I doubt people would be willing to do this. One or two guys in a playgroup, maybe. But not an entire store.



What you are overlooking is that casual games can be sanctioned and count towards your score. You can get Commander matches sanctioned for free, and as long as everyone's decks are legal, the DCI will let it happen.


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Grollub

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Re: [MtG] "Planeswalker Points"
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 07:32:59 AM »
   Basically what your talking bout is collusion (sp).. if the store owner didnt pick up on it and say "nay nay".  I'm sure Wizards would notice a large number of tournaments like this happening, fairly quickly, and take action to ban the people cheating as such. 
   What you are proposing is fairly blatent and pretty stupid, you would get caught fast doing that.

What the new system does prevent is: people who play in the current season, then when they achieve a high enough rank, "sit back and coast on it".  I personally know of at least 2-3 people who have done this.  They qualify for the Nationals, then stop playing so they don't lose any rankings, so they auto-qualify for Nationals.   The new system would allow points for every game played, and if you stopped playing for 3-6 months "to coast" you would probably get screwed over now.

Nox_Noctis

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Re: [MtG] "Planeswalker Points"
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 07:50:54 AM »
   Basically what your talking bout is collusion (sp).. if the store owner didnt pick up on it and say "nay nay".  I'm sure Wizards would notice a large number of tournaments like this happening, fairly quickly, and take action to ban the people cheating as such. 
   What you are proposing is fairly blatent and pretty stupid, you would get caught fast doing that.

Oh, yes, it's quite clearly collusion. But, while it might seem obvious that "Wizards would notice ... and take action to ban the people," there doesn't seem to be anything in their rules to actually outlaw such an action (and, it should be noted, collusion is not, in itself, an illegal action). That is my main point.

@Sinfire: Yes, from a practicality perspective, I agree it would be hard to get such a group together. You also indirectly bring up a great point, which is that such conspirators could simply, with proper sanctioning, do the same thing without having to pay for drafts in the first place. And re: the concern of selling the cards -- in selling chase mythics, the players would undoubtedly eventually turn a profit if they know the secondary market to any degree, which could then fuel proper deck-building for the high-scale events for which they have bothered to qualify, Extended, or Modern.

I just want to see someone do this. It's amusingly simple.
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SorO_Lost

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Re: [MtG] "Planeswalker Points"
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 09:44:58 AM »
A tad off topic.

[spoiler]The recent Master Transmuter comment over in the simple build thread got me thinking.
Quote
Transmuter (60 cards)
   Creatures (20)
      2 Darksteel Colossus
      1 Inkwell Leviathan
      1 Platinum Angel
      4 Master Transmuter
      4 Phyrexian Walker*
      4 Memnite*
      4 Ornithopter*
   Spells (14)
      4 Thirst for Knowledge
      2 Soul Manipulation
      4 Remand
      4 Disrupt
   Artifacts (8)
      4 Welding Jar*
      4 Urza's Bauble*
   Lands (18)
      4 Seat of the Synod
      4 Vault of Whispers
      4 Darkwater Catacombs
      3 Island
      3 Swamp
   * Notes 0 cost.
Master of Etherium & Steel Overseer would probably be awesome, but I'm a little concerned with the draw rate of the powerhouse (Darksteel Colossus or Inkwell Leviathan) hence the draw based counterspells and baubles. Maybe drop Walker for them?

Keep suggestions cheap, no unglued/unhinged, and Cranial Plating was ban hammered unless I want to face silvers or that damn elf deck >.>. Other than that, no real rules. The local card shop closed in three months of opening so no tournaments for me.[/spoiler]
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Sohala

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Re: [MtG] "Planeswalker Points"
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2011, 05:09:53 PM »
Skullclamp?
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
"No I'm just trying to figure out how far you want them bent."
[spoiler]
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: [MtG] "Planeswalker Points"
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 05:18:19 PM »


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SorO_Lost

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Re: [MtG] "Planeswalker Points"
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2011, 06:19:08 AM »
Skullclamp?
Banned in Legacy.
It's casual play with friends, we don't really follow legacy rules for what is or isn't allowed. In fact, things run by a gentleman's agreement for the most part. I'm not really a counterspell style person either but figured I'd give it a try and derail this topic for opinions on such a deck.

So with that said, oh yes to Skullclamp. Nothing major needs to get changed though?
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]