Author Topic: Ramifications of Gauntlets as Shields  (Read 1193 times)

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Sinfire Titan

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Ramifications of Gauntlets as Shields
« on: September 06, 2011, 11:30:26 PM »
This is in reference to the Augmentations system that I am working on.


In the Weapons thread, it was brought up that Gauntlets should be a bit more powerful. I've been trying to think about how to do this, but each time I do, I keep wanting to restat them as shields.

Obviously this brings up a few problems, namely:

  • Proficiency issues. Its entirely possible to be proficient with armor, but not with the gauntlets they come with if I do this.
  • Class features that don't work with Shields.
  • Augments. I intend to give Shields access to multiple types of augments (Armor/Weapon/Shield), since they can serve as all three.

There are a few ways for me to go about this:

Separate section for Gauntlets (DO NOT WANT)
Leave them as weapons and give them the Defending property (not exactly helpful, but it works)
Include them in Shields with special rules, and remove them from the armor section entirely (a bit of rewriting involved, but nothing much)

But I wanted to get some opinions before I do anything with this. What do you guys suggest? Is this a decent idea, or should I look into alternative solutions?


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Prime32

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Re: Ramifications of Gauntlets as Shields
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2011, 11:36:19 PM »
I'd say make them something like dastana(?) - grant a +1 armor bonus to AC which stacks with your armour's, as well as an ASF chance which also stacks with your armour's. There should be a reason not to use gauntlets too.
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Re: Ramifications of Gauntlets as Shields
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2011, 11:43:28 PM »
I'd say make them something like dastana(?) - grant a +1 armor bonus to AC which stacks with your armour's, as well as an ASF chance which also stacks with your armour's. There should be a reason not to use gauntlets too.

Well, the problem is because they're also weapons.

I planned on putting Dastanas in the Armor Modifications all ready (although they actually modify gauntlets, not the armor), but I've gotten feedback that I've only made unarmed combat worse by comparison. In order to rectify that problem, I'd like Gauntlets to be something more than a bonus to AC.




PS: I've removed ASF entirely. I've replaced it with a CL penalty to both Arcane and Divine spells. Because CoDzilla needed a nerf too (there's ways around it, but the Big 6 lose out on CL if they wear certain type of armor).


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Re: Ramifications of Gauntlets as Shields
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 12:59:03 AM »
Well, the problem is because they're also weapons.
PS: I've removed ASF entirely. I've replaced it with a CL penalty to both Arcane and Divine spells. Because CoDzilla needed a nerf too (there's ways around it, but the Big 6 lose out on CL if they wear certain type of armor).

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Re: Ramifications of Gauntlets as Shields
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2011, 02:04:00 AM »
Hoorah for psionics!

Otherwise, psywars would suck.

I'd give them the equivalent of Armored Mage, so as to not nerf them. As it stands, Clerics and Druids have AM for up to Medium, but not shields, Paladins have it for anything they are proficient with, and Rangers have it for Light armor and all shields.


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Re: Ramifications of Gauntlets as Shields
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2011, 02:38:52 AM »
Hoorah for psionics!

Otherwise, psywars would suck.

I'd give them the equivalent of Armored Mage, so as to not nerf them.
Anything they're proficient in? Or just period?

Really, it doesn't hurt anything to ignore armor altogether. It already penalizes you for non-proficiency, and anyone proficient in armor should have the training to cast in it already.

All it does is require a few (easy) ways using workarounds dealing with the penalties.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Ramifications of Gauntlets as Shields
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2011, 02:41:42 AM »
Anything they're proficient in? Or just period?

Really, it doesn't hurt anything to ignore armor altogether. It already penalizes you for non-proficiency, and anyone proficient in armor should have the training to cast in it already.

All it does is require a few (easy) ways using workarounds dealing with the penalties.

Probably Paladin style. And do note that some options for reducing those penalties are getting complete reworks (Mithral, for example, won't be a de-facto answer for CLP).


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Re: Ramifications of Gauntlets as Shields
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2011, 07:18:43 PM »
You want gauntlets to be something besides a bonus to AC, but that is the system that D&D uses for armor! Unfortunately, what makes sense for a gauntlet to be some sort of parrying tool, as they so often were, is to give a small deflection, shield, or armor bonus to AC that doesn't stack as long as it isn't used as a weapon in that round. It is functionally exactly like a shield, but is instead a weapon. I'd say that there should be few ways to increase the AC bonus.

Alternatively, you could go a little more realistic: If you do not attack with the gauntlet on your turn, you can use the gauntlet as a a countermeasure using an attack of opportunity. When someone attacks you, you can expend an AoO to make an attack roll with the gauntlet, +1. If your attack roll is higher than the opponent's, you take half damage. Obviously, you can only expend one AoO per incoming attack.

Of course, that is how I think that all shields should work, with bucklers giving a +1, light shields giving a +2, heavy shields giving a +4, and tower sields giving a +6, with the added caveat that a tower shield converts the half damage taken to nonlethal (or you could say all shields do this, but the tower shield negates ALL dmamage on success). The present system for shields sucks slimy crack balls compared to reality.
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Re: Ramifications of Gauntlets as Shields
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 07:22:12 PM »
The goal of the fix isn't to be realistic, it's to turn Shields into a useful piece of equipment that provides protection from attacks or can be used as a weapon.


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Re: Ramifications of Gauntlets as Shields
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2011, 04:40:11 PM »
Personally I think Gauntlets should just directly enhance unarmed attacks, their strength is in the same versatility using a fully articulated limb has for attacking, that is, grabbing, blocking, throwing, etc. Just let them up the power of unarmed attacks.
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