Author Topic: Please help - optimizing psionics and arcane spellcasting  (Read 2463 times)

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patha787

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Please help - optimizing psionics and arcane spellcasting
« on: September 06, 2011, 03:02:53 AM »
Hey everyone,

I'd like to thank everyone who assisted me with my last (gestalt) build - I really appreciate it, and I'd be lost without you all.

I'm going to be joining a PbP/play by chat (non gestalt) campaign to keep busy, and I'm here to humbly request your assistance with another build.

Basically the character concept I'd like to achieve is an optimized blend of psionics and arcane spellcasting - 9th level powers and arcane casting. I used Spell to Power Erudite as part of the gestalt build created in my last thread and that remains an option, but I'm checking to see if there isn't another (better) way. If there is, I'm guessing it involves Mind Mage (which seems quite cool) and/or Cerebremancer. If StP Erudite is still the best way, just say the word. In my head, I'm imagining some kind of StP Erudite/Wizard/Mind Mage/Cerebremancer monstrosity with 9th lvl Arcane and Powers, the metamagic/metapsionic coolness of Mind Mage and maybe using StP to learn divine spells as well (via stuff like learning from casters with Arcane Disciple, Wyrm Wizard, Recaster, Advanced Learning, Southern Magician etc), but my Rules Fu isn't good enough to figure it all out. I saw Kell Kheraptis mention a similar build he was working on but couldn't find the actual build posted.

The character's race will be human. Is the Phrenic template worth taking (bearing in mind LA buyoff is available)? In addition to the nifty abilities, something about "experience is a river". I'll be taking Leadership, too.

General build advice and other tips and tricks are always appreciated.

Now, what you need to know about the campaign. It's a homebrew setting, and the DM is very open-minded and agreeable (both generally and regarding character optimization). We can take two flaws.

Available Sources:
All WotC sourcebooks (including setting specific material) and online/web enhancement/other official content
All Dragon Magazine
Possibly third party (e.g. Dreamscarred Press) materials, but would have to check with the DM

I'm plotting the build up to 20th level, as I know the DM well and we have a fairly solid group so (with luck) it should last a long while.

It's probably not important, but the party so far is shaping up to look like (builds given up to 20th lvl):

Strongheart Halfling Swashbuckler/Rogue/Swordsage/Warblade/Master Thrower/Bloodstorm Blade/Whisper Knife (ranged attacker/damage dealer)
Goliath Dragonborn Knight/Crusader (tank/battlefield lockdown and control)
Human Human Paragon/Cloistered Cleric/Archivist/Prestige Paladin/Bone Knight (primary divine caster/summoner/melee cleric/secondary buffer)
Human Transmuter/War Weaver/Knight of the Weave/Ultimate Magus (primary buffer, arcane utility caster?, some healing/status effect removal)
Me (Batman/God etc?)

P.S. Out of curiosity, any comments or input on the party in general? The group would probably be open to any advice.

Thanks in advance to any who respond.

Rejakor

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Re: Please help - optimizing psionics and arcane spellcasting
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2011, 07:58:59 AM »
There are like a dozen ways to get divine spells as arcane spells... but it's essentially DM fiat, even if you roll up a cohort specifically to give you those spells.

Right out of the box StP Erudite can grab 9th powers and 8th arcane spells.

Stupidly cheesy way involving Sanctum spell to grab 9th arcane spells... they prepare a sanctum spell.. it's one spell level lower... you steal it... it becomes one spell level higher... bam.


Ardents are not capped by class level... you can go like something random 15/ardent 5 and get 9th level powers.. they're capped by ML not class level so you just boost your ML... basis for the triple-9 build..

There's fast progression arcane classes like sublime chord... theoretically could lose only 2 levels from psionic casting and get 9th arcane that way... something like bard 1(stupid bullshit to get 3rd level arcane spells)/psion 5/cerebremancer 4/sublime chord 1/cerebremancer 5/mind mage 5.

Or just go beholder mage.

Nunkuruji

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Re: Please help - optimizing psionics and arcane spellcasting
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2011, 06:04:34 PM »
Mind Mage and the associated feats you can pick up in that issue are pretty cool, but it is in many ways really weak until you have Twin Wells (@15), especially due to the stunted spell/power progression. It's a rough ride for almost all dual casters in this sense, if you are playing up through the levels. Throwing a template on top of that, even with buyoff, makes it tough as well.

Generally, I think the build goes

Wizard1/Psion3/Cere4/MM10/Cere2
1st 3 feats: Precocious Apprentice, Psi-Spell, Psi-Spell

The feat req also prevents taking Practiced Manifester (without some work, or additional human/flaw/etc feat slots and perhaps retraining/psyref)
Practiced Manifester is sort of what would even get you through the earlier-mid, to give you the extra PP and ML for situations where you really want to augment.

Ardent could be used to double-9, I think, but then you're no longer SAD

Endarire

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Re: Please help - optimizing psionics and arcane spellcasting
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 07:21:43 AM »
Erudite generally does the spell and power thing better than anyone else.  You're SAD, though the early restrictions on unique powers/day means you just need to bring more mules and attack dogs.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Please help - optimizing psionics and arcane spellcasting
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 06:30:04 PM »
Erudite generally does the spell and power thing better than anyone else.  You're SAD, though the early restrictions on unique powers/day means you just need to bring more mules and attack dogs.
This is especially potent in the campaign world of Avatar: The Last Airbender, when you can have mule dogs and platypus bears to attack for you.
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Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
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shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Please help - optimizing psionics and arcane spellcasting
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2011, 06:58:24 PM »
Here is the post containing my latest mind mage monster.  If you want to calculate the size of that node and then final CL/ML, feel free :P
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X-Codes

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Re: Please help - optimizing psionics and arcane spellcasting
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2011, 09:11:02 PM »
Hey, I actually posted in that thread...

See why I think Mind Mages are cheesy now?

patha787

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Re: Please help - optimizing psionics and arcane spellcasting
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2011, 08:18:21 PM »
Here is the post containing my latest mind mage monster.  If you want to calculate the size of that node and then final CL/ML, feel free :P

Cool build - I have a few questions regarding it, I'm sure many of which (if not all) are probably silly as I don't know much about classes like Spellthief or some of the variants.

1. How does Spellthief qualify as an arcane casting class? And I'm assuming Mind Mage then uses the "+1 level of existing class" from the Mind Mage table to your divine casting from Divine Bard (hence the inclusion of Sublime Chord for access to higher level spells)?
2. How does a bard (who cannot be lawful) meet the alignment restriction for Prestige Paladin?
3. Prestige Paladin requires turn undead; how does the build meet this pre-requisite?
4. If Mind Mage etc. is being used to advance a divine spellcasting class, how does the build qualify for Master Spellthief or Incantatrix?

I'm guessing it's all probably something to do with the Psiotheurgy feats. Which Dragon Magazine (and what page) can I find these in?

EDIT: Never mind, found them. :)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 08:26:40 PM by patha787 »

KellKheraptis

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Re: Please help - optimizing psionics and arcane spellcasting
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2011, 08:58:43 PM »
1)Bardic Spellthief

2)Prestige Paladin of Freedom

3)Planar Touchstone

4)Alternate Source Spell to get in, then it progresses Sublime Chord from then on.
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