Author Topic: A little psionic assistance, please  (Read 8677 times)

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Ubernoob

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2008, 11:33:46 PM »
Elocator burns 3 feats, a point of BAB, and a ML over three levels for:
Scorn Earth (Su), Sidestep Charge (Ex), Opportunistic Strike (Ex), and Dimension Step (Su).

Scprm Earth is cute, but worthless.  Sidestep Charge is cute, but worthless.  Opportunistic Strike doesn't stack with offensive precognition, which you should have up.  Dimension Step is worthless.

Let's look at what psion 2/ [Full Bab 1] give us:
Same BAB and ML.
3 more feats than elocator.
Possibly a bonus feat (ranger, fighter) or something else cool (Pounce).

If you can't use sanctified mind then you go:
Ranger 1/ Psion 6/ Slayer 10/ Psion +2/ Full Bab 1
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behaigo

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2008, 06:40:14 AM »
I've thought of a good story reason to take Ranger at first level so I may reap those benefits.

Ok, here is my semi-final decision, any critique would be fantastic:

Tetsuya Kojima, Male Human

Str:15
Dex:15
Con:12
Int:15(17 with +2 racial)
Wis:10
Cha:10

Feat, Ability score increase, Special

Planar Ranger 1 - Track (ranger bonus), Exotic Weapon Proficiancy (Spiked Chain), Improved Trip, Wild Empathy, Favored Enemy +2 (Githyanki)
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 1 - Toughness (Pathfinder Version)
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 2 - Combat Reflexes, Psicrystal Affinity(Single-Minded)
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 3 - +1 Int
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 4 - Psicrystal Containment, Psionic Meditation
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 5 - Combat Manifestation
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6 - Psionic Body, Psionic Weapon
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 1 - +1 Dex , Favored Enemy +4 (Githyanki), Githyanki sense
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 2 - Deep Impact, Brain Nausea
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 3 - Lucid Buffer
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 4 - Dodge, Favored Enemy +6 (Githyanki)
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 5 - +1 Str
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 6 - Mobility, Cerebrial Blind
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 7 - Favored Enemy +8 (Githyanki)
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 8 - Greater Psionic Weapon, Breach Power Resistance
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 9 - +1 Int, Cerebrial Immunity
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 10 - Spring Attack, Blast Feedback, Favored Enemy +10 (Githyanki)
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 10/Elocater 1 - Sidestep Charge (Elocater bonus feat)Scorn Earth
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 10/Elocater 2 - Empower Power, Oppertunistic Strike +2
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 10/Elocater 3 - +1 Int, Dimension Step

Anything I should change?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 01:51:58 PM by behaigo »
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Ubernoob

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2008, 06:56:07 AM »
Now, when I mentioned in the post just above that Elocater 3 was a poor choice verging on retarded where were you?

Also, your feat choices are terrible.  Here are the ones I would not drop:
Psionic Meditation, Psicrystal Affinity
Everything except those two needs to go.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 06:58:14 AM by ubernoob »
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behaigo

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2008, 07:02:44 AM »
And what exactly would you reccomend instead of elocater and all of those feats?
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Ubernoob

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2008, 07:12:29 AM »
And what exactly would you reccomend instead of elocater and all of those feats?
Here's a rough outline:
Ranger 1/ Egoist 6/ Slayer 10/ Psion +2/ Fighter 1
1) Combat Expertise
3) Improved Trip
5) Extend Power
7) Metamorphic Transfer
9) Psionic Meditation
11) Psionic Weapon
13) Deep Impact
15) EK:Schism
17) Psicrystal Containment
19) Power Attack

Bonus Feats:
Ranger 1) Track
Psion 2) Psicrystal Affinity(I like Nimble)
Psion 6) Overchannel
Fighter 20) Improved Initiative

I'm 100% sure the order is suboptimal, but those are the feats you want.

OK, I need to get some sleep.  I'll give you the most optimal order some time tomorrow.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 07:19:19 AM by ubernoob »
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behaigo

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2008, 08:00:43 AM »
And what exactly would you recommend instead of Elocater and all of those feats?
Here's a rough outline:
Ranger 1/ Egoist 6/ Slayer 10/ Psion +2/ Fighter 1
1) Combat Expertise
3) Improved Trip this was apart of my feat selection
5) Extend Power
7) Metamorphic Transfer as I stated earlier I plan on avoiding anything that resembles Polymorph
9) Psionic Meditation this was part of my feat selection
11) Psionic Weapon this was part of my feat selection
13) Deep Impact this was part of my feat selection
15) EK:Schism as I plan on avoiding Polymorph-esque powers I have chosen telepath instead of egoist, so this is unnecessary
17) Psicrystal Containment this was part of my feat selection
19) Power Attack

Bonus Feats:
Ranger 1) Track this was part of my feat selection
Psion 2) Psicrystal Affinity(I like Nimble) this was part of my feat selection
Psion 6) Overchannel
Fighter 20) Improved Initiative

I'm 100% sure the order is suboptimal, but those are the feats you want.

OK, I need to get some sleep.  I'll give you the most optimal order some time tomorrow.

Did you actually read my post, or just scan through it?  For one, you have not listed nearly enough feats, and two you told me I needed to drop everything but Psionic Meditation and Psicrystal Affinity even though, of the 14 you listed, 8 were on my original list.  Metamorphic Transfer is pointless and Power Attack and Combat Expertise have been nerfed.
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Callix

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2008, 12:16:48 PM »
AFAIK, Expertise is a prereq for Imp. Trip.

Paizo adds so many feats that non-feat abilities become worth it, even when they don't look optimal.

Scorn Earth isn't just cute. In a dungeon, trap-proofing can save your life, as can moving along walls and ceilings.

Finally, a gish can do worse than Elusive Target + Improved Trip, which Elocater enables very nicely. Elusive Target + Sidestep Charge shuts down just about all charging opponents.
I know gameology-fu.

behaigo

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2008, 12:33:23 PM »
AFAIK, Expertise is a prereq for Imp. Trip.

Not in Pathfinder it isn't :D

Unfortunately I am unable to take Elusive Target as it is in CW ><
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 12:38:31 PM by behaigo »
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carnivore

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2008, 12:41:04 PM »
you have not made a Bad choice in choosing Elocator...... but you need to work with you decision better, especially with the Feat Choices it locks you into..... the "Spring Attack" tree

since you dont plan on using Metamorphosis... fine that give an additional direction that we can approach this with

Human

Str:15
Dex:15
Con:12
Int:15(17 with +2 racial)
Wis:10
Cha:10

i would redo the attributes .... you are trying to address too many attributes... focus on 2(Int for Manifesting powers, and either Str or Dex for combat.... since you are forced into the spring attack tree, but want too Trip.... focus on Str) ....like this:

16 Str(14+2 racial)
14 Dex
12 Con
14 Int
13 Wis
8 Cha

all level boosts go to Int, except the last one.. it goes to Dex

for feats......  try this:

Ranger 1 .................. Dodge, Track(ranger bonus), Mobility(human Bonus)
Psion 1 .................... Psicrystal Affinity(psion bonus)
Psion 2 .................... Exotic Weapon(Spiked Chain)
Psion 3
Psion 4 .................... Toughness(piazo version)
Psion 5 .................... Psionic Weapon(psion Bonus)
Psion 6 .................... Imp Trip(Piazo version)
Slayer 1  
Slayer 2 .................... Psionic Meditation
Slayer 3  
Slayer 4 .................... Combat reflexes
Slayer 5  
Slayer 6 .................... Spring Attack
Slayer 7  
Slayer 8 .................... Quicken Power
Slayer 9  
Slayer 10 .................... Knock Down
Elocator 1 ................... Sidestep Charge
Elocator 2 .................... Hold the Line
Elocator 3



HOLD THE LINE [GENERAL]Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, base attack bonus +2.
Benefit: You may make an attack of opportunity against a charging opponent who enters an area you threaten.  Your attack of opportunity happens immediately before the charge attack is resolved.
Normal: You only get an attack of opportunity against a character that exits a square you threaten.


KNOCK-DOWN [GENERAL]Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15.
Benefit: Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target.



 :D

behaigo

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2008, 01:51:11 PM »
@ carnivore: Holy shit, I completly forgot that Deities and Demigods feats where in the SRD, thanks!
I like where you are going with this, however I would like to be able to use my spiked chain and be able to trip with it at the starting level.

How about this?

Tetsuya Kojima, Male Human

Str:16 (14 +2 racial)
Dex:14
Con:12
Int:14
Wis:13
Cha:8

Planar Ranger 1 - Track (ranger bonus), Exotic Weapon Proficiancy (Spiked Chain), Improved Trip (piazo)
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 1 - Psicrystal Affinity, Psionic Weapon
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 2 - Dodge, Psionic Weapon
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 3 - +1 int
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 4 - Mobility, Psionic Meditation
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 5 - Quicken Power
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6 - Psicrystal Containment, Hold the Line
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 1 - +1 int
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 2 - Knock Down
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 3
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 4 - Combat Reflexes
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 5 - +1 int
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 6 - Spring Attack
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 7
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 8 - Extend Power
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 9 - +1 int
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 10 - Greater Psionic Weapon
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 10/Elocater 1 - Sidestep Charge (Elocater bonus feat)
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 10/Elocater 2 - Twin Spell
Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 10/Elocater 3 - +1 dex


Also, just so everyone knows, feat progression is thus:

Base: 1 at first +1 every odd level
Psion: 2 at first +1 every even level +1 every 5th level

« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 07:05:35 PM by behaigo »
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carnivore

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2008, 03:05:24 PM »
Quote
Base: 1 at first +1 every odd level
Psion: 2 at first +1 every even level +1 every 5th level[/glow]
does your version of Psion give general Feats.... or does it give bonus feats as per SRD:
Quote from: SRD
This feat must be a psionic feat, a metapsionic feat, or a psionic item creation feat.

and instead fo Whirlwind attack..... Twin Power.... will be far stronger than Melee attacks at that level

 :D

behaigo

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2008, 03:30:00 PM »
Quote
Base: 1 at first +1 every odd level
Psion: 2 at first +1 every even level +1 every 5th level[/glow]
does your version of Psion give general Feats.... or does it give bonus feats as per SRD:
Quote from: SRD
This feat must be a psionic feat, a metapsionic feat, or a psionic item creation feat.

and instead fo Whirlwind attack..... Twin Power.... will be far stronger than Melee attacks at that level

 :D

Wow, I can't beleive I didn't even think of that.
 :fu
I made the proper changes.

Is everything alright now?  Any further tweeking that could be done to make this better?
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Ubernoob

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2008, 08:04:14 PM »
Maybe I should read through pathfinder.  Fuck it.  My point on elocator stands.  It blows.
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behaigo

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2008, 08:29:42 PM »
Maybe I should read through pathfinder.  Fuck it.  My point on elocator stands.  It blows.

lol different strokes for different blokes :P
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Ubernoob

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2008, 08:38:30 PM »
Maybe I should read through pathfinder.  Fuck it.  My point on elocator stands.  It blows.

lol different strokes for different blokes :P
Eh, I just don't want to spend my time on failure.  I've seen too much bad design go into pathfinder.

But really, drop elocator.
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behaigo

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2008, 09:17:02 PM »
There are some things I like about pathfinder and some I don't.  It's okay I guess.  But hey, a group is a group, the people are cool even if the system isn't.
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carnivore

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2008, 10:37:20 PM »
when you compare the two builds.... Elocator does seem to make a more well rounded, versatile build:

Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 10/Elocater 3 vs Ranger 1/ Egoist 6/ Slayer 10/ Psion +2/ Fighter 1.... id say the Elocator build is better.... better saves, skills, Class abilities... better tactical abilities... but you be the judge... here they are for comparison:




Ranger 1/ Egoist 6/ Slayer 10/ Psion +2/ Fighter 1

BAB+16
ML 17
HD 1d8+8d4+10d10+1d10= average 85 hp
Saves:
F 9
R 7
W 13
Skills(not counting Int bonus):82 ranks


Feats[spoiler]
1) Combat Expertise, Track(ranger bonus)
2) Psicrystal Affinity(I like Nimble)(psion bonus)
3) Improved Trip
5) Extend Power
6) Overchannel(psion Bonus)
7) Metamorphic Transfer
9) Psionic Meditation
11) Psionic Weapon
13) Deep Impact
15) EK:Schism
17) Psicrystal Containment
19) Power Attack
20) Improved Initiative[/spoiler]



Planar Ranger 1/Telepath 6/Slayer 10/Elocater 3

BAB +16
ML 17
HD 1d8+6d4+10d10+3d6= average 85 hp
Saves:
F 8
R 10
W 15
Skills(not counting Int bonus):94

Additional Class Abilities:
[indent]Scorn Earth (Su): At 1st level, an elocater’s feet lift from the ground. From now on, she can float a foot above the ground. Instead of walking she glides along, unconcerned with the hard earth or difficult terrain. While she remains within 1 foot of a flat surface of any solid or liquid, she can take normal actions and make normal attacks, and can move at her normal speed (she can even “run” at four times her normal speed). However, at distances higher than 1 foot above any surface, her speed diminishes to 10 feet per round.
While she remains within 1 foot of a surface, she can make melee and ranged attacks normally, but if she moves any higher, she incurs the penalties on melee and ranged attack rolls as if she were the subject of the psionic levitate power.

Opportunistic Strike (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, an elocater’s hyperawareness of spatial relations gives her an instinctive view of the battlefield, which allows her to make a cunning attack against distracted opponents. The elocater gains a +2 insight bonus on her attack roll and her damage roll (if the attack hits) for the first attack she makes against an opponent that has been dealt damage in melee by another character since the elocater’s last action. At 5th level the insight bonus increases to +4, and at 8th level the insight bonus increases to +6.

Dimension Step (Su): An elocater of 3rd level or higher can slip psionically between spaces as if using the psionic dimension door power, once per day. The elocater cannot bring any other creatures with her. Her manifester level for this effect is equal to her elocater level.
[/indent]

[spoiler]
1)Track (ranger bonus), Exotic Weapon Proficiancy (Spiked Chain), Improved Trip (piazo)
2)Psicrystal Affinity, Psionic Weapon
3)Dodge, Psionic Weapon
5)Mobility, Psionic Meditation
6)Quicken Power
7)Psicrystal Containment, Hold the Line
9)Knock Down
11)Combat Reflexes
13)Spring Attack
15)Extend Power
17)Greater Psionic Weapon
18)Sidestep Charge (Elocater bonus feat)
19)Twin Spell[/spoiler]

as a side note ..... Scorn Earth does not allow movement on Walls or Ceilings .... the reference to a "Flat Surface" is in the context of surfaces like the Ground..... otherwise it would be "Scorn Any Surface"..... also it references "psionic levitate" for the effect


 :D


Ubernoob

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2008, 10:50:14 PM »
Elocater 3 gives:
1 fort
3 ref
3 will
12 skill points over +2 int classes.
Class features that are worthless at the levels you get them (Scorn Earth is worthless when everyone has constant on flight).
Loses 1 bab and 1 ML
Costs 3 feats and gives a shit feat back.

Psion +2/ Warmind 1 gives:
2 fort (1 higher than elocater)
2 ref (1 lower than elocater, but this is a save that doesn't matter)
1 will (2 lower, but mind blank is coming into play at these levels so not as big a deal)
Saves are marginal enough of a difference not to matter.

12 skill points at worst is 3 feats that you didn't spend getting into elocater.

You also get more powerpoints and a useful classfeature with warmind.

@OP: Are any classes not in the SRD allowed?  If so we can do better for that level than warmind.  Are non SRD feats allowed?  If so we can do better than the layout I gave you earlier.
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carnivore

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2008, 11:41:48 PM »
Psion +2/ Warmind 1 gives:
<snip>

You also get more powerpoints and a useful classfeature with warmind.

then why didnt you go with that ......

in fact that may be even Better.....

Ranger 1/ Psion 8/ Warmind 1/ Slayer 10.... seems like a much Stronger Psionic Build..... however the OP wanted to use Elocator ..... i also recomended against it... but it was possible to make it work as Callix suggested

isnt the goal of these boards to work with what the OP wants... but at the same time offering useful suggestions and options they may be unaware of? .... not simply insulting people and posting only our own opinions

 :D


PhaedrusXY

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2008, 12:03:53 AM »
It is possible to combine Warmind and Elocater. I had a few builds where I'd done this, but the old thread which they were in has been consumed in the WotC clusterfuck.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]