Author Topic: A little psionic assistance, please  (Read 8676 times)

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behaigo

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A little psionic assistance, please
« on: July 30, 2008, 04:08:05 PM »
First off, it feels good to be back! I've been excessively busy lately with moving and haven't had much time to do ANYTHING, let alone sit around lurking in forums!

Anyway, lets get down to business. I've joined a new group up here and need to make a new char. The rules are thus:

  • 32 point buy
  • SRD (and all other open source material) + "Pathfinder Alpha 3" rules. This can be found on Paizo's site for free.
  • Starting level 2
  • Action point system via UA
  • Max HP at first level, (1/2 HD type) +1 +CON every level
  • That about sums it up

A few significant points to note:

  • Base feat progression is every odd level instead of every third level
  • Every core race gets an additional +2 to a specific ability, humans get a +2 to whatever ability desired (I plan on being human)
  • All core classes have been heavily modified. The justification to this is to "re-balance them to make them more appealing compared to newer classes." I feel this is unnecessary, however this is a non-issue as you will soon find out

Now that those are out of the way, lets get down to buisness...again...

I plan on playing a psionic class. I also plan on playing a combat-oriented class. Obviously I'm gravitating to Psychic Warrior, however I'm not pleased with the poor amount of PP I get in doing so. One idea I had was go with a Psion and take the Slayer PrC from the SRD. Then I got thinking; Would it be better to take Psi War into Slayer?

Here lies my conundrum. Should I take Psy War or Psion?

After I have solved this we can get to the meat and potatoes of the character

Thanks a bunch!

Edit: I forgot to mention, my new DM is a little... strict on Min/Maxing for the current campaign.  I don't want any more than 3 classes/PrCs total.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 04:34:13 PM by behaigo »
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NineInchNall

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 04:47:47 PM »
The simplest route would be to go with Ranger 2/Egoist 4/Slayer.  There's not much more thematically appropriate than that - so no objections from the DM - and you'll end up more useful over most levels than the PsyWar option.

behaigo

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 05:27:05 PM »
Yeah, I was kinda toying around with that idea myself, but I have a hard time sacrificing even 1 manifester level, let alone 3.  If I had access to Practiced Manifester I wouldn't be worrying so much.

Well, that's a lie, I would still be worrying about being short 5 9th lvl powers and about 100 PP.

Would I cry myself to sleep at night if I did this?

Egoist 1
Egoist 2
Egoist 3
Egoist 4
Egoist 5
Egoist 6
Egoist 7
Egoist 8
Egoist 8/Slayer 1   
Egoist 8/Slayer 2   
Egoist 8/Slayer 3   
Egoist 8/Slayer 4   
Egoist 8/Slayer 5   
Egoist 8/Slayer 6   
Egoist 8/Slayer 7   
Egoist 8/Slayer 8   
Egoist 8/Slayer 9   
Egoist 8/Slayer 10
Egoist 9/Slayer 10   
Egoist 10/Slayer 10
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NineInchNall

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 06:21:07 PM »
No, it'd be fine.  It just might not be the "warrior" kind of thing you were looking for.

Callix

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 11:27:40 PM »
I've tried the Psi-Gish at low levels. At least one level of Ranger really helps. I'd start it as Ranger 1/Egoist 1, then go to Ranger 1/Egoist 6/Slayer 10/Elocater 3. It's a bit more feat-intensive, but the extra feats will make qualifying a breeze. The Ranger is for all martial weapons before 9th level, and Elocater is just plain fun. Never set off a pressure plate again. :)

The build manages +16 BAB (significantly better than the +15 for Egoist 10/Slayer 10, as it adds an attack), ML 17 for 9th level powers, and is Epic-ready. If you're expecting the campaign to go past about level 15, Ranger 1 and Ranger 2 are very good options. If it's mainly going to be lowish levels, then straight Psion is fine, but won't be much of a frontliner until you get Metamorphosis.
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AndyJames

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 11:32:51 PM »
Would a Warmind be a good psionic combat-oriented character option?

I can see Spiked Chain + Sweeping Strike + Expansion being nasty...

Callix

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2008, 11:40:46 PM »
Would a Warmind be a good psionic combat-oriented character option?

I can see Spiked Chain + Sweeping Strike + Expansion being nasty...
Split manifester levels hurts. It can work, but you're often better off taking a nonpsionic character (chain tripper etc) and then putting them into Warmind than putting a Psiwar into it. Really, Warmind wants other splatbooks to support Sweeping Strike.
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AndyJames

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2008, 11:49:53 PM »
 :lol Chain Tripper Warmind:

Sweeping Trip 2 guys
Improved Trip attack both guys (triggered off first guy tripped)
Improved Trip attack both guys again (triggered off second guy tripped)
Any interative attacks on both guys

Sounds fairly nasty...

ninjarabbit

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 12:27:09 AM »
Yeah, if you're thinking about being a psi warrior, be a warmind or even a psi fist instead.

I'd go wildshape ranger7/warmind10/psiwarrior3 or wildshape ranger7/monk3/psifist10

PhaedrusXY

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2008, 01:02:38 AM »
:lol Chain Tripper Warmind:

Sweeping Trip 2 guys
Improved Trip attack both guys (triggered off first guy tripped)
Improved Trip attack both guys again (triggered off second guy tripped)
Any interative attacks on both guys

Sounds fairly nasty...
Yes.


Also, the abbreviated title for this thread when it is at the top of the forum is "A little psionic ass..."  :lol
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 01:04:26 AM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

AndyJames

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2008, 01:06:21 AM »
I know. I was laughing that that before I even came into the thread.

Hazren

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2008, 02:43:58 AM »
Quote

Also, the abbreviated title for this thread when it is at the top of the forum is "A little psionic ass..."  :lol


It got me to look. :) :lol
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behaigo

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2008, 11:13:29 AM »
Quote

Also, the abbreviated title for this thread when it is at the top of the forum is "A little psionic ass..."  :lol


It got me to look. :) :lol

Haha that's awesome.

Anyway, I've come up with a skeleton of a backstory for now, which I will expand upon after I figure everything out.

Essentially, he was grievously wronged by a mass attack of a specific psionic race/monster (any suggestions?  It's an oriental styled campaign and I would prefer to stick away from Mind Flayers).  He does a bit of research and finds that if he tries to use brute force alone, and he must first condition his mind, then he can hone his body.

I think I'll go with the following progression:

Psion 1 - 1,2,3
Psion 2
Psion 3 - 4
Psion 4
Psion 5 - 5,6
Psion 6
Psion 6/Ranger 1 - 7, Track
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 1
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 2 - 8
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 3
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 4 - 9
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 5
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 6 - 10
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 7
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 8 - 11
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 9
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 10 - 12
Psion 7/Ranger 1/Slayer 10
Psion 8/Ranger 1/Slayer 10 - 13
Psion 9/Ranger 1/Slayer 10

Another option is:

Psion 1 - 1,2,3
Psion 2
Psion 3 - 4
Psion 4
Psion 5 - 5,6
Psion 6
Psion 6/Ranger 1 - 7, Track
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 1
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 2 - 8
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 3
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 4 - 9
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 5
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 6 - 10
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 7
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 8 - 11
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 9
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 10 - 12
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 10/Elocater 1
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 10/Elocater 2 - 13
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 10/Elocater 3

There are two more possibilities, as the revised wizard class gains extra abilities at every even level, and I may be able to convince the DM to allow me to give me additional feats every even Psion level:

Psion 1 - 1,2,3
Psion 2 - 4
Psion 3 - 5
Psion 4 - 6
Psion 5 - 7,8
Psion 6 - 9
Psion 6/Ranger 1 - 10, Track
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 1
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 2 - 11
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 3
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 4 - 12
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 5
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 6 - 13
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 7
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 8 - 14
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 9
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 10 - 15
Psion 7/Ranger 1/Slayer 10
Psion 8/Ranger 1/Slayer 10 - 16
Psion 9/Ranger 1/Slayer 10

And

Psion 1 - 1,2,3
Psion 2 - 4
Psion 3 - 5
Psion 4 - 6
Psion 5 - 7,8
Psion 6 - 9
Psion 6/Ranger 1 - 10, Track
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 1
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 2 - 11
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 3
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 4 - 12
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 5
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 6 - 13
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 7
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 8 - 14
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 9
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 10 - 15
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 10/Elocater 1
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 10/Elocater 2 - 16
Psion 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 10/Elocater 3

Now, based on these, what would be the best choice for the first two and the best choice for the second two?

Also, what would be the best way to distribute my ability scores?  Best feat selection? Also I can't decide between Egoist or Telepath.  I think Telepath fit's the backstory I'm developing a bit more, however what are a few notible powers I'm missing from Egoist?  Also, I'm going to try to steer away from any Polymorph-esque powers.

Thanks again, and sorry for the long post, I'm unsure what all of the coding options there are.  Where can I find them?

*Edit: As for stats I'm thinking:

Str:16
Dex:14
Con:12
Int:15(17 with +2 racial)
Wis:10
Cha:10
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 11:32:19 AM by behaigo »
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carnivore

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2008, 12:28:44 PM »
i would suggest this:

Always take the Ranger level first..... get the most from the Extra Skill points, and get More Hp to start with... also use Anarchic Initiate to further boost BAB, id recomend Ranger 2/ Psion 4/ Anarchic Initiate 4/ Slayer 10... and get BAB+17 with 17th Lvl ML and Better Saves, .... but if you want higher ML, try this:

Human

32 pt buy:

10 Str
14 Dex
14 Con
18 Int(16+2 racial)
14 Wis
10 Cha


Ranger 1 .................. Weapon Finnesse, Track(ranger bonus), Able Learner(human Bonus)
Psion 1 .................... Psicrystal Affinity(psion bonus)
Psion 2 .................... Extend Power
Psion 3
Psion 4 .................... Psionic Meditation
Psion 5 .................... Overchannel(psion bonus)
Anarchic Initiate 1 ..... Talented
Anarchic Initiate 2
Anarchic Initiate 3 ..... Psicrystal Containment
Anarchic Initiate 4
Slayer 1 ................... Point blank Shot
Slayer 2
Slayer 3 ................... Psionic Shot
Slayer 4
Slayer 5 ................... Greater Psionic Shot
Slayer 6
Slayer 7 ................... Quicken power
Slayer 8
Slayer 9 ................... Twin Power
Slayer 10

items to get:
Monks Robe
headband of Mental Superiority....+2,+4,+6 when available
Belt of Physical Perfection ...+2,+4,+6 when available


this should work well with the adjustments Paizo has made..... it makes the most from Skill points,Saves, Hp

 :D





Callix

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2008, 12:57:14 PM »
Egoist vs Telepath: Telepath gets Brain Lock, which is a house against single opponents and flyers, and Psionic Dominate. Schism is also nice. Telepath is probably the more generally useful school, but tends to spend a lot of actions concentrating. Egoist, on the other hand, has Animal Affinity and Hustle, and the high-level option on Fission. If you're a buffed-up gish, two of you is immensely useful. It's less so for a primary caster, though still good. Fusion is abusable, but costs you actions.

Really, it's not a huge difference, and Telepath could work quite easily. Choosing between Psion 7-9 and Elocater 3 is a matter of style; more Psion will give you more PP, +1 ML, and therefore more augment options. Elocator will give you an extra attack on a full attack, but only at 20th. If you expect the game to go Epic, take Elocator. Similarly, if you aren't getting bonus feats for the Psion levels, I'd take Elocator. If you are getting a bonus feat or two, ask if there are still any psionic feats you actually want. If there are, take them. If there aren't, then go with Elocator, as it's really quite nifty.

Obviously take Slayer into Epic. Perhaps Githyanki (there's a psionic version in the XPH, but not the SRD) could be a nice Slayer enemy. The whole astral piracy thing is something an oriental character could bounce off, IMO.

@carnivore: Unfortunately, the game is restricted to SRD + Pathfinder. Otherwise, Anarchic Initiate would be quite good.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 12:59:25 PM by Callix »
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2008, 05:57:23 PM »
Choice of discipline doesn't really matter all that much for powers known. You can always get whatever you want via Expanded Knowledge, except for the 9th level powers. Choice of discipline just determines which ones you'll get earlier, what your class skills are, and what 9th level powers you'll eventually have access to.
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[/spoiler]

Ubernoob

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2008, 08:14:56 PM »
Guys?  Slayer grants martial weapon prof and doesn't require it.  For the most powerful psion gish I'd go something like this:
Kalashtar Egoist 6/ Anarchic Initiate 4/ Slayer 10
1) Link Power
Psion bonus) Psicrystal Affinity
3) Overchannel
Psion Bonus) Metamorphic Transfer
6) Psionic Meditation
9) Track
12) Extend Power
15) EK: Schism
18) Open feat

Metamorph into a choker, manifest schism.  We are currently at 3 standard actions 1 move, and one swift per round.  Now manifest control body and follow that with solicit psicrystal.  Your full attack is now covered by your psicyrstal.  1 standard and a move left.  Manifest a buff and link an extra buff to it.  Use your move action to regain focus.

After that just start manifesting hustle and linking powers to it.  Quicken lite.

Extend power is for temporal accelleration.  Always use wild surge since your risk is very low.
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carnivore

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2008, 09:59:51 PM »
since Piazo doesnt seem to have any Psionic stuff in the free Download.... and Anarchic initiate is not allowed... try this:

Human or Elf(Piazo.. +2 Dex,+2 Int,-2 Con, fav class:Ranger))

Ranger 2/ Psion 8/ Slayer 10

BAB +16
17th ML.... 9th lvl Powers

although you do loose some PP, and 9th lvl powers known... it makes up for it with Constant Martial ability and Saves an Skills

Elocator does not work well if you want both +16 BAB and 9th lvl Powers ....... it can be fun, but what are you looking for? what powers were you thinking about?

 :D


Callix

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2008, 11:03:46 PM »
since Piazo doesnt seem to have any Psionic stuff in the free Download.... and Anarchic initiate is not allowed... try this:

Human or Elf(Piazo.. +2 Dex,+2 Int,-2 Con, fav class:Ranger))

Ranger 2/ Psion 8/ Slayer 10

BAB +16
17th ML.... 9th lvl Powers

although you do loose some PP, and 9th lvl powers known... it makes up for it with Constant Martial ability and Saves an Skills

Elocator does not work well if you want both +16 BAB and 9th lvl Powers ....... it can be fun, but what are you looking for? what powers were you thinking about?

 :D


Six levels of Psion loses you three BAB. Three levels of Elocator loses you one BAB. Ranger 1/Psion 6/Slayer 10/Elocater 3 has BAB +16. It also gains some class features in the last three levels; Two-Weapon Fighting or Rapid Shot are comparatively unimpressive. Elocater is added as a finishing dip; only the first three levels are taken.
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carnivore

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Re: A little psionic assistance, please
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2008, 11:23:09 PM »
very true .... but then it does require you to invest in several feats... which could have been spent elswhere.... generally the best use for Elocator is the 6th lvl class ability:

Transporter (Ex): At 6th level, an elocater learns both psionic teleport and psionic plane shift. These powers are in addition to any powers the elocater normally learns by advancing a level.
The elocater treats these powers as if they were 3rd-level powers on her class list. This means, among other things, that manifesting these powers costs 5 power points. (If the character does not have a high enough manifester level to manifest 3rd-level powers the character cannot manifest these powers until she has attained the required manifester level.)


the more i look at the adjustments that Piazo has made... i like Ranger 1/ Psion 6/ Slayer 10/ Elocater 3 even more.. since you do get more feats(with Piazo) and the Class abilities do make up for the feat expenditure(with more feats it is not as painful)

 :D