Author Topic: Help with low-power, low-magic world.  (Read 8190 times)

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Kajhera

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2011, 03:16:20 PM »
Profession(sailor) if you're traveling by ship, will make you not useless. I've had to deal with people without profession(sailor). I didn't care for them much.

If you're not traveling by ship not so important. Profession checks to make money for a week are fairly uninteresting, but there may be some interest to be had in gathering supplies / synergizing with alchemy / I don't really know. (Also cooking is a profession skill, because 8 hours to make an omelette is just silly.)

While a rogue can deploy alchemy quite effectively ... only spellcasters can make alchemical things.  :( Consider convincing your bard to have it.

War animals could indeed be quite useful when they have better stats than anyone and you have a bard, but keeping them organized, well-fed, healthy is another thing entirely - you could buy a mule for what it costs to stable one for 8 days. There's no such thing as a free pet.

I don't actually know what skills are best prioritized because I'm used to a far more lenient skill system than normal D&D... hide, move silently, tumble, sleight of hand, spot, appraise, pick 2 of bluff / diplomacy / escape artist / open lock / search, craft (alchemy) because I don't care if you're not a spellcaster, and split the remaining between your two knowledge skills?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2011, 03:28:34 PM »
With that much money, handle animal will definitely be the best fkn skill in the game... Make a ranger or druid so it fits from a RP perspective, then buy a bunch of herds of cows (make sure you can use the bison stats, or get a price on bison so you can just buy them), call yourself a cowboy/herdsman, and enjoy as you stampede your way to victory. :D
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Wilb

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2011, 03:40:50 PM »
   Kremti, you just gave me a really nice idea! I'll try to recreate the european part of the silk road, with additives! Trading silk and spices and relics for gold and local goods! Now I'll need a vehicle or large means of transport over land and/or sea, anyone got any suggestion or guidelines for making one (in case no such thing exists).

   Hallack, I fear even the spontaneous conversion was thrown out by the DM, Clerics can convert spells only when in churches, Druids have no access to conversion (or convert only on stone circles, I can check this with him) so the rule of casting only what the DM lets you still applies to them.

   Kajhera, the DM will let me craft alchemical items without being a spellcaster, I just need to "train" it by failing 5 or 6 times through a month or two. Ships would be a burden except in the Mediterranean Sea (maybe) because krakens, sirens, sea dragons and the like are "real" in this world, so I'll need to travel mostly by land.

   PhaedrusXY, I just need to find some way to transport them, because I have no castle/fort/whatever, and I'll be going to cities to sell merchandise.

  So I'll ask you, where can I find rules for large land vehicles (large enough to store some animals and goods), if they exist?

EDIT: its an honor to have such an old school poster as you PhaedrusXY to post here, been admiring you since time of the WotC optimisation boards (before that Gleemax fiasco), when you still used a wizard dressing red robes (I believe) as your avatar!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 03:43:30 PM by Wilb »

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2011, 03:45:29 PM »
PhaedrusXY, I just need to find some way to transport them, because I have no castle/fort/whatever, and I'll be going to cities to sell merchandise.
Umm... transport them the same way that people historically transported them... Herd them. You're a herdsman, after all.

They can provide you a source of mobile , easily liquidatable (you sell some) wealth, a source of food, an alarm system (they have scent, and 1000 sets of eyes and ears are certainly better than 1 at detecting threats), and a source of offense (you train them to stampede where you want).
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Maat_Mons

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2011, 03:46:49 PM »
As it happens, I've spent some time looking into mundane item modifications.  

Armor Modifications
[spoiler]
Masterwork
  • Masterwork: 1 better ACP, +150 gp, Player's Handbook p126
  • Item of Renown: 2 better ACP, +300 gp, War of the Lance p23
  • Item of Fame: 3 better ACP, +450 gp, War of the Lance p23
  • Item of Glory: 4 better ACP, +600 gp, War of the Lance p23
  • Item of Legend: 5 better ACP, +750 gp, War of the Lance p23

Alloy Components
  • Oerthblood: +1 (light), +2 (medium), or +3 (heavy) luck bonus saves vs. magic, DR 1/- (light), 2/- (medium), or 3/- (heavy), *2 hardness, *1.5 HP, +10,000 gp (light), +20,000 gp (medium), +30,000 gp (heavy), Dragon 351 p45
  • Pure Ore: masterwork, *2 hardness, *2 HP, +800 gp (light), +3,000 gp (medium), +7,000 gp (heavy), Dragon 347 p47

Artisan Craftsman Qualities
  • Acid Washed: +4 saves vs. acid, rust, & disintegration, +100 gp (light) or +200 gp (medium or heavy), metal only, Dragon 358 p39
  • Caster Armor: -5% ASF, +400 gp (light), +800 gp (medium), or +1,000 gp (heavy), Dragon 358 p39
  • Environmentally Designed: +2 saves vs. heat or cold, +100 gp, Dragon 358 p40
  • Lightweight: -20% weight, +200 gp (light or medium) or +500 gp (heavy), Dragon 358 p42
  • Ornate: +2 diplomacy or intimidate, +400 gp, Dragon 358 p42
  • Reinforced: +1 AC, +10% weight, +800 gp (light), +1,000 gp (medium), or +1,200 gp (heavy), Dragon 358 p42
  • Resilient: +5 HP, +200 gp, Dragon 358 p42
  • Segmented: +1 max. dex bonus, +200 gp (light or medium) or +300 gp (heavy), Dragon 358 p42
  • Vital Coverage: +2 AC vs. critical confirmation, +200 gp (light), +400 gp (medium), or +1,000 gp (heavy), Dragon 358 p43

Templates
  • Feycraft: -5% ASF, -10% weight, +1 bluff to deceive, -1 hardness, -5 HP, +500 gp, light or medium only, Dungeon Master's Guide II p274
  • Fireshaped: +2 saves vs. fire & heat, +300 gp, metal only, Dungeon Master's Guide II p275
  • Githcraft: -5% ASF, +1 concentration, +600 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p276
  • Gloryborn: +1 AC when charging, +150 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p277
  • Hellforged: +1 AC when adjacent to ally, +1 hardness, +5 HP, 1 better ACP, -1 max. dex bonus, +5% ASF, +1,000 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p277
  • Pitspawn: 1 damage to attacker, +600 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p278
  • Soulforged: +2 to resist bull rush & trip, +1 hardness, +5 HP, +400 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p279

Weapons
  • Armor Razors: Slashing armor spikes, +10 lb., +50 gp, Underdark p65
  • Armor Spikes: Weapon, +10 lb., +50 gp, Player's Handbook p124
  • Elbow Blade: Punching dagger, +1 lb., +4 gp, Complete Scoundrel p110
  • Knee Blade: Short sword, +2 lb., +20 gp, Complete Scoundrel p110
  • Netcutter Spikes: Armor spikes, +4 escape net & web, +10 lb., +200 gp, Races of the Wild p167

Other Modifications
  • Buoyancy: Don't double ACP for swim, 1 worse ACP, +50 gp, Underdark p65
  • Camouflage: +2 hide in specific terrain, +2 lb., +300 gp, Underdark p66
  • Camouflage Dye: +4 hide in specific forest, +300 gp, padded, leather, hide, or studded leather only, Races of Faerun p158
  • Ceremonial: +1 max. dex, 2 better ACP, no speed reduction, half ASF, half weight, half AC bonus, twice normal cost of masterwork armor, Dungeon 105 p71
  • Dwarvencraft: +2 hardness, +10 HP, +2 saves, +300 gp, metal or stone only, Races of Stone p159
  • Fast-Donning Straps: No increase in ACP for donning hastily, +150 gp, Races of Stone p155
  • Forestwarden Shroud: Tumble & move silently through undergrowth, +2 pounds, +100 gp, Races of the Wild p167
  • Keel: +2 swim, +2 lb., +50 gp, Stormwrack p106
  • Muffling: +2 move silently, +2 lb., +300 gp, Underdark p66
  • Oil Chamber: Store & release oil, +1,000 gp, Dungeonscape p33
  • Quick-Escape: Remove as standard action, double time to put on, +2 lb., +300 gp, masterwork only, Arms and Equipment Guide p16
  • Riding Straps: +1 ride, +200 gp, Races of Stone p157
  • Sanctified: Divine focus, +50 gp, Dungeonscape p34
  • Signature Crest: Decoration, +50 gp, Races of Stone p158
  • Stability Weights: +2 balance & to resist bull rush & trip, -1 max. dex bonus, +10% ASF, +1 armor category, +30 lb., +160 gp, Underdark p66
  • Stinging Polyps: Paralyze grappled opponent for 1d4 rounds 1/day (fort DC 14 negates), +500 gp, living coral only, Stormwrack p106
  • Susalian Chainweave: DR 3/piercing, +28,000 gp (light), +35,000 gp (medium), or +42,000 gp (heavy), Complete Warrior p136
  • Ysgardian Heartwire: +2 AC vs. critical confirmation, +1,500 gp, Book of Exalted Deeds p38

Accessories
  • Chahar-Aina: +1 AC, -1 ACP, 5% ASF, 10 lb., 75 gp, Oriental Adventures p75
  • Dastana: +1 AC, -1 ACP, 5% ASF, 5 lb., 25 gp, Arms and Equipment Guide p15, Oriental Adventures p75
  • Earthsilk Jersey: DR 1/shashing or bludgeoning, torn on critical hit dealing piercing damage, 2 lb., 150 gp, Races of Stone p160
  • Gauntlet, Locked: +10 vs. disarm, +5lb. (breastplate, light armor, or no armor), 8 gp, Player's Handbook p124
  • Gorget: +10 AC vs. garrote, -4 extended physical actions, 5 lb., 10 gp, Song and Silence p54
  • Leather Collar: +4 AC vs. garrote, -2 extended physical actions, 2 lb., 2 gp, Song and Silence p54
  • Thistledown Suit: -5% ASF, 1 worse ACP, 250 gp, Races of the Wild p168
[/spoiler]

Shield Modifications
[spoiler]
Masterwork
  • Masterwork: 1 better ACP, +150 gp, Player's Handbook p126
  • Item of Renown: 2 better ACP, +300 gp, War of the Lance p23
  • Item of Fame: 3 better ACP, +450 gp, War of the Lance p23
  • Item of Glory: 4 better ACP, +600 gp, War of the Lance p23
  • Item of Legend: 5 better ACP, +750 gp, War of the Lance p23

Alloy Components
  • Oerthblood: *2 hardness, *1.5 HP, +10,000 gp, Dragon 351 p45
  • Pure Ore: masterwork, *2 hardness, *2 HP, +400 gp/lb., Dragon 347 p47

Templates
  • Feycraft: -5% ASF, -10% weight, +1 bluff to deceive, -1 hardness, -5 HP, +500 gp, wooden only, Dungeon Master's Guide II p274
  • Fireshaped: +300 gp, metal only, Dungeon Master's Guide II p275
  • Githcraft: -5% ASF, +1 concentration, +600 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p276
  • Gloryborn: +150 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p277
  • Hellforged: +1 hardness, +5 HP, 1 better armor check penalty, -1 max. dex bonus, +5% ASF, +1,000 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p277
  • Pitspawn: 1 damage to attacker, +600 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p278
  • Soulforged: +2 to resist bull rush & trip, +1 hardness, +5 HP, +400 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p279

Weapons
  • Shield Sheathe: Store light weapon, draw as free action, +25 gp, not buckler, Races of Stone p158
  • Shield Spikes: Weapon, +5 lb., +10 gp, not buckler, Player's Handbook p125

Other Modifications
  • Dwarvencraft: +2 hardness, +10 HP, +2 saves, +300 gp, metal or stone only, Races of Stone p159
  • Oil Chamber: Store & release oil, +1,000 gp, Dungeonscape p33
  • Sanctified: Divine focus, +50 gp, Dungeonscape p34
  • Wand Chamber: Store & use wand, +100 gp, Dungeonscape p34
[/spoiler]

Weapon Modifications
[spoiler]
Masterwork
  • Masterwork: +1 enhancement bonus attack rolls, +300 gp, Player's Handbook p122
  • Item of Renown: +2 enhancement bonus attack rolls, +600 gp, War of the Lance p23
  • Item of Fame: +3 enhancement bonus attack rolls, +900 gp, War of the Lance p23
  • Item of Glory: +4 enhancement bonus attack rolls, +1,200 gp, War of the Lance p23
  • Item of Legend: +5 enhancement bonus attack rolls, +1,500 gp, War of the Lance p23

Alloy Components
  • Oerthblood: +1 luck bonus attack & damage, target takes -1 saves vs. magic for 1 round (stacks with self), *2 hardness, *1.5 HP, +6,000 gp, Dragon 351 p45
  • Pure Ore: masterwork, *2 hardness, *2 HP, +400 gp/lb., Dragon 347 p47

Artisan Craftsman Qualities
  • Acid Washed: +4 saves vs. acid, rust, & disintegration, +100 gp, metal only, Dragon 358 p39
  • Basket Hilt: +4 to resist disarm, +50 gp, sword only, Dragon 358 p39
  • Blood Groove: -20% weight, +2 hardness, +100 gp, sword only, Dragon 358 p39
  • Deceptive: +4 sleight of hand to disguise weapon, +800 gp, Dragon 358 p40
  • Enhanced Bracing: +2 damage when set against charge, +100 gp, spear or polearm only, Dragon 358 p40
  • Folded Metal: +4 hardness, +200 gp, metal only, Dragon 358 p40
  • Long Range: +20 feet range increment, +100 gp, bow or crossbow only, Dragon 358 p42
  • Ornate: +2 diplomacy or intimidate, +400 gp, Dragon 358 p42
  • Perfect Balance: +1 AC with total defense, +100 gp, melee only, Dragon 358 p42
  • Razor Sharp: +1 damage, +1,000 gp, slashing only, Dragon 358 p42
  • Resilient: +5 HP, +200 gp, Dragon 358 p42
  • Serrated: 1 bleed damage for 1d4 rounds, +600 gp, piercing or slashing only, Dragon 358 p43

Templates
  • Feycraft: Weapon finesse, -10% weight, -1 hardness, reduced damage, +1,500 gp, light or 1-handed melee only, Dungeon Master's Guide II p274
  • Fireshaped: +1 damage vs. cold creature, +800 gp, metal edge only, Dungeon Master's Guide II p275
  • Githcraft: +1 damage vs. psionic creature, +900 gp, bladed only, Dungeon Master's Guide II p276
  • Gloryborn: +1 damage when charging, +600 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p277
  • Hellforged: +1 damage vs. flanked creature, +1 hardness, +5 HP, +1,500 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p277
  • Pitspawn: +2 to confirm critical, +1,000 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p278
  • Soulforged: +2 damage vs. charging creature, +1 hardness, +5 hp, +800 gp, Dungeon Master's Guide II p279

Weapons
  • Blade, Close Fighting: Retractable dagger, +100 gp, 1-handed or 2-handed melee only, Races of the Wild p166
  • Bow Blade: Punching dagger, 0.5 lb., 4 gp, Complete Scoundrel p109
  • Crossbow Bayonet, Knife: Shortspear, 1 lb., 2 gp, Complete Scoundrel p109
  • Crossbow Bayonet, Sword: Spear, 2 lb., 4 gp, Complete Scoundrel p109
  • Hand Crossbow Blade: Dagger, 0.5 lb., 4 gp, Complete Scoundrel p109

Other Modifications
  • Breakaway: Divide & reassemble weapon, threat range reduced to 20, +1,000 gp, Dragon Annual 5 p28
  • Disguised: +5 sleight of hand to conceal (in addition to normal +2), +50 gp, dagger only, Dragon 316 p40
  • Dwarvencraft: +2 hardness, +10 HP, +2 saves, +600 gp, metal or stone only, Races of Stone p159
  • Elvencraft: Usable as club or quarterstaff, +300 gp, bow only, Races of the Wild p166
  • Folding: Concealable, +75 gp, non-composite bow only, Dragon 316 p40
  • Hilt Hollow: Store small item, +200 gp, Dungeonscape p33
  • Modular: Divide & reassemble weapon, breaks on a natural 1, +150 gp, simple or martial melee weapon up to 5 lb., hand crossbow, dart, or sling only, Dragon 316 p40
  • Oil Chamber: Store & release oil, +1,000 gp, Dungeonscape p33
  • Wand Chamber: Store & use wand, +100 gp, Dungeonscape p34

Accessories
  • Drop Sheathe: Store light weapon, +5 sleight of hand to conceal, draw as free action, 600 gp, Dragon 316 p41
  • False Scabbard: Store small item, 1 lb., 15 gp, Dragon 316 p41
  • False Scabbard Tip: Store small item, +10 gp or +110 gp (quick-release mechanism), Complete Scoundrel p108
  • Reinforced Sheathe: Used over weapon, convert to bludgeoning, -2 attack, overwrite magic properties, bladed slashing or piercing only, Dragon 324 p57
  • Weapon Capsule Retainer: Holds 1 alchemical weapon capsule, 100 gp, Complete Adventurer p121
  • Weapon Capsule Retainer, Triple: Holds 3 alchemical weapon capsules, 450 gp, 100 gp, Complete Adventurer p121
[/spoiler]

Wilb

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2011, 03:57:16 PM »
  Phaedrus, I'll take that in consideration, nice advice! Now I'll need only a transport to carry a really large amount of goods without commiting any cow(bison) to carrying it (because the DM said that herd animals used to carry chariots, carts and the like would not be sellable as such :shakefist).

  Maat, you just gave me a stupid large amount of work, THANK YOU!!!! :D

 So I should take that there is no rules for land bound non-magical large vehicles? This being final I shall be able to take on from here!

 Thank you all for your time and help!

Kajhera

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2011, 04:03:21 PM »
Arms and Equipment Guide, chapter 3 has vehicles. Might be outdated. I played someone with an orithopter from there once, but that's technically magical. Zeppelins would probably be anachronistic as well as simply too expensive.  :D But perhaps a wagon, carriage, or mobile redoubt will strike your fancy.

Wilb

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2011, 04:06:08 PM »
I'll see if I can get that book, thanks again!

Tonymitsu

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2011, 04:38:34 PM »
This is quite possibly the most insane attempt at a "low-magic" D&D campaign I have ever seen. (No offense to your DM... if you still like him at this point)



The DM should have just said, "No spellcasters".  That would have been significantly less offensive.  This is basically telling you, "If you want a spellcaster, go ahead, but you're pretty much going to be playing the half of a character I give you."

This is the second biggest problem, and we haven't even gotten to the campaign setting yet.

Let's step away from the lunacy of using TWF in the field as your training instead of actually training to use it before you try to kill people with it.

How in Bindo's holy name is this supposed to work for anything that's not a general feat?  Let's say I do want to play a spellcaster and I want Quicken Spell.  How do I "train" that?  Do I simply attempt to prepare the spell, hope I got it right, and the DM will let me know if it works when I try to cast it?  What is he going to use to determine success or failure that won't let me know ahead of time that something is wrong?
You said Completes were in.  That means Divine Metamagic is an option.  Do I spend turn attempts before I know if it worked or not?  How long do I have to put up with this before I get something for my character investment?  Or what about Luck feats from Complete Scoundrel?  Is the DM going to let me know if I get my luck re-roll at the beginning of the day or is he going to wait to tell me I don't have it until I ask to re-roll that Reflex save to not die?

enemies will mostly be as restricted as the PCs (except for spellcasting races such as dragons, some aberrations, fey and the like)

No.
No, no, no, no, no.

When these things are in the campaign even once it is officially no longer a "low-magic" campaign and instead a "watch the party re-roll" campaign.

Fey:
Any pixie encounter is automatically a Total Party Wipe, as is any encounter with satyr's that have pipes.  Nymph's are likewise permanently crippling without ready access to magical healing.

Aberrations:
Mind flayers and beholders are both aberrations.  As are rust monsters, chokers, and umber hulks.  Any of these will kill the party without much effort.

Dragons:
Anything bigger than a juvenile is a Total Party Wipe.  No exceptions.  And that's not even counting spells they get.  Depending on how intelligently it's played, anything bigger than very young can be a total wipe as well.

And the like:
What else are you going to have to worry about in this world?  Because here's a short list

Total Party Wipe:
-Any incorporeal creature
-Oozes
-Any outsider

Encounters that will cost you a party member:
-Any construct
-Most magical beasts
-Most other undead


At this point, any time you encounter one of the above creatures that you cannot verbally dissuade from eating you, it is railroading.





...Oh... right.  Something on topic.

Do what the pro-druid posters said.  Play a druid, and use the crappy spells he gives you to spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally.  Make your single added book of choice Lost Empires of Faerun and take the Greenbound Summoning feat.  If not that, Ashbound from the Eberron Campaign Setting is a good second choice given the circumstances.

Also get the party to pool their resources and buy riding dogs.  Lots of them.  Get war trained ones if you can afford it, since they will have better stats than the rest of the party.  If the DM somehow makes feed and upkeep an issue, kill them, then hire a spellcaster (Player's Handbook, pg 129) to cast Animate Dead on them.  Then hire that person to accompany the party.  Have the paladin take Leadership and make him the cohort.  That way if he dies you get a replacement.  He'll probably be more powerful than the rest of the party too.

Wilb

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2011, 05:21:55 PM »
   Tonymitsu, I (still) can stand the DM for I think that he MIGHT be able to do something that is workable in the end, after all he is the sole hardcore optimiser of my group (besides me).
Well, Spontaneous conversion works only for Clerics inside churches (Druids possibly can do the same at stone circles, FWIW), so Druid becomes online only with wildshape, so its better to go Rogue, I believe.
   There is almost no possiblity for us to find a spellcaster to hire, probably only by taking leadership, as you suggested. I believe that PhaedrusXY suggestion of using cows, considering their many uses, together with some really huge vehicle, as I expect Kajhera's Mobile Redoubt will be, is the only way right now. Maybe if there was another character there I could risk going Druid and just get by until wildshape, "abusing" my animal companion.
   And I believe that in five or six levels, we'll be able to get at least some useless magic items, after what I'll try to convince him to allow leadership to attract an artificer. Maybe seeing that we will supply our own items he'll open up a little to magic. Or maybe he just wants to give us item familiar artifact swords of fightan magick and call it a day...

Tonymitsu

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2011, 05:39:43 PM »
 Well, Spontaneous conversion works only for Clerics inside churches (Druids possibly can do the same at stone circles, FWIW), so Druid becomes online only with wildshape,

 :twitch


...Okay.

Pick Book of Exalted Deeds as your one additional book.

Play a Monk with Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty.  Make a bid to acquire the Saint Template as soon as possible.  Grow a beard.
Follow it up with Vow of Peace.  Maximize diplomacy efforts, possibly take Leadership to acquire followers.
Tell people you meet that you are Jesus.

Kajhera

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2011, 06:38:03 PM »
Creatures in that list I've defeated in a similarly low-magic campaign:
- Shadow
- Ooze

How I defeated them:
- Magic Missile, DM-distributed

Oh. We also killed an owlbear but I'm not sure those count.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 06:43:55 PM by Kajhera »

Faithless tbe Wonder Boy

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2011, 06:42:25 PM »
Also get the party to pool their resources and buy riding dogs.  Lots of them.  Get war trained ones if you can afford it, since they will have better stats than the rest of the party.

Again, mules are a way bigger bang for your buck.  Mules have more HP, are bigger and stronger, and have multiple attacks.  They also get the increased carrying capacity of a beast of burden, making them useful as pack animals in addition to combat brutes.  But most importantly, you can buy 18 mules for the cost of 1 riding dog, and that's without taking into account war training.

awaken DM golem

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2011, 07:16:58 PM »
Throwin' in with the Druid and Handle Animal
Rogue 1 / Druid+ and possibly Monk 1 after druid 5.

You have spells, so you should be able to take Extra Spell feat.
That'd open up the spell list a little, kinda into a Neutered Wilder sort of way.

X-Codes

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2011, 08:22:32 PM »
An alternative to a herd of cows is a small stronghold.  Staff it with servants and such so it's self-supporting and you already have a source of "legitimate" income.

As for your character: I would go with a Fighter.  Mounted Combat, Heavy Platemail, Heavy Shield, you know, a high-AC Knight.  Take a level in Rogue at some point for 5 ranks in tumble and balance and the boost to Fighting Defensively (Combat Expertise may or may not be worth a feat and/or delaying other feats you want), and not being flat-footed while balancing.  Check Complete Warrior for the Cavalier PrC, which given the lack of strong magic for PCs just might be a damn good PrC to look at (assuming you live long enough to enter it).  Especially if you're getting some kind of artifact sword.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 08:34:30 PM by X-Codes »

Jackinthegreen

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2011, 08:42:17 PM »
 Well, Spontaneous conversion works only for Clerics inside churches (Druids possibly can do the same at stone circles, FWIW), so Druid becomes online only with wildshape,

 :twitch


...Okay.

Pick Book of Exalted Deeds as your one additional book.

Play a Monk with Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty.  Make a bid to acquire the Saint Template as soon as possible.  Grow a beard.
Follow it up with Vow of Peace.  Maximize diplomacy efforts, possibly take Leadership to acquire followers.
Tell people you meet that you are Jesus.

Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty were my first thoughts, but adding Jesus in there takes it to a whole new level.  I highly doubt the second part would be allowed of course, and sadly I can see Vow of Poverty being stricken as well because it negates many of the issues of not having magical items.

As far as training for feats goes, see if you can train for something like TWF or Weapon Focus on target dummies or through sparring.  Trying to do it in the field during actual combat could very well be fatal, and no intelligent person would do that.

jeffrie

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2011, 09:53:16 PM »
Able Learner Races of Destiny
You have a great aptitude for learning.
Prerequisite: Human or doppelganger.
Benefit: All skill ranks cost 1 skill point for you to purchase, even if the skill is cross-class for you. The maximum number of ranks you can purchase in a cross-class skill remains the same.
Special: This feat may only be taken at 1st level.

Jack Of All Trades Complete Adventurer
Prerequisite: Int 13.
Benefit: You can use any skill as if you had 1/2 rank in that skill. This benefit allows you to attempt checks (and take 10) with skills that normally don't allow untrained skill checks (Decipher Script, Disable Device, Handle Animal, Knowledge, Open Lock, Profession, Sleight of Hand, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Tumble, and Use Magic Device).
If a skill doesn't allow skill checks (such as Speak Language), this feat has no effect.
(This feat lets you take 10 in any profession or craft, knowledge, or under certain circumstance perform.)
**************
If you go int rogue you will accumulate approximately 268 skill points. Make note of which ones you can take 10 in, and which ones you can't.
   Go over the skill list and try to limit yourself to 22 (or less) skills. Choose 3 skills to max, and 5 to near max(18) =159. Choose 5 to give only 5 ranks to for synergy (craft, jump, survival, use rope) = 13/184. You now have 84 points left for 9 skills = 9average, to play with.
NOTE: with synergies and ability bonus your scores will be higher.
**************

APPRAISE, int: Not bad in this world. DC 12 for mundane items and 15-20(+) for rare, so with your +3 int bonus @12th level you could have 18 points know the price of everything.

BLUFF, cha: I would. For one, most classes don't even have sense motive. Secondly, they won't have skill points. The only thing in this game better than diplomacy is the ability to lie about it. Since you won't have to lie often you won't need to max it.

DIPLOMACY, cha: Max it.

DISABLE DEVICE, int: Could come in handy, non magical devices have a cap of about 25, so you could conceivably master all the worlds devices. I wouldn't max it, but you might second rank it.

Escape Artist, dex: I would skip it. Don't get caught, and if you do, talk your way out of it.

Forgery, int: Forgery is capped by the opposed forgery check. I use it for my own aliases, and therefor no forgery check is opposed. It's tricky, and hard to get out of if the authorities catch you.

GATHER INFO, cha: You're going to need it, and you don't want to only get it from the bard do you? I would give it 18 ranks.

HANDLE ANIMAL, cha: I like the ideas above, but probably 10 is most of what you'll need (unless you make it a character trait/campaign driver).

HEAL, wis: Consider giving this some priority in a non magic campaign.

Intimidate, cha: I usually don't. Diplo and gather info and sense motive are more my style.

Knowledge, int: Without Knowledge Devotion this might just be enough to take Jack of all Trades and be able to take 10+ Int mod at all Knowledge.

LISTEN, wis: Personally i would give nearly 18 points to both listen and spot. There's a feat in CA (Quick Recon) that gives a free action Listen and Spot every round, and also a +2 Initiative. You might like it.

Move Silently, dex: Tempting. Depends on the direction of your character.

OPEN LOCK, dex: You can't talk a lock into opening. Lot's of good stuff behind locks.

Perform, cha: A few points in different performs might help your disguises, and love life. Probably won't be able to afford much.

Profession, wis: Remember that Jack of all Trades will let you take 10 at any profession check (sailor, cowboy, carpenter, astrologer, lawyer, architect, engineer), so if you take it, you won't need points here, but you can role play all day with few penalties.

SEARCH, int: Search is slower, and you can take 10, so you shouldn't need more than 10 points for mundane searches.

SENSE MOTIVE, wis: One of my big ones.

SLEIGHT OF HAND, dex: Unless you are building a thief i would only give it a second priority.

Spellcraft, int: If you don't have much magic perhaps take 10 is all you'll need.

SPOT, wis: Again, this is one of my big ones. Spot can make profit. Spot as a free action is easy profit and safety rolled into one.

Survival, wis: I would only take 5, i find the DM railroads me to where ever he wants me. .. .

TUMBLE, dex: Great skill, if you have the points. You should probably take 5 as it gives two synergies. More is better.

UMD, cha: When your DM finally starts breaking out the magic, guess who will have max ranks?

USE ROPE, dex: It will assist with climbs, escapes (if needed), survival situations, animals, captives, traps. . . don't leave home without it.
**********

As far as training, run mock battles against your allies for non lethal damage and it will be fun.

And of course, let's not forget the martial rogue, who get's feats as a fighter in exchange for sneak attack. Wrestle your DM into letting you take either feats or SA as you choose and he'll be sorry.

If you take this sort of build in a low magic campaign where the dm hands out magic items for plot, you will always have something to do in a round. Disguise and Sense/Diplo will likely be all powerful.

Oh, and don't forget to plan for the Leadership feat. Maybe a dip for a familiar and detect evil?
"That's one for the good guys.
Current score: Evil 923,472,810, Good 1."

-Kuroimaken

Maat_Mons

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2011, 09:58:26 PM »
Tell people you meet that you are Jesus.

Or, play a woman named Ann Lee and start 400 years early. 

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2011, 11:11:11 PM »
 Phaedrus, I'll take that in consideration, nice advice! Now I'll need only a transport to carry a really large amount of goods without commiting any cow(bison) to carrying it (because the DM said that herd animals used to carry chariots, carts and the like would not be sellable as such :shakefist).
I don't even know what the hell that means... You can't sell a cow if it's ever been used to pull a cart? How the fuck is the buyer going to know that, if it doesn't have a cart attached to it when you attempt to sell it?

Your DM sounds like a complete control-freak pain in the ass, and unless he actually came up with a bunch of house rules to make D&D work with the restrictions he's put in place (automatic scaling bonuses that you'd normally get from "standard" magic items), I probably wouldn't even play in such a game...

What about being pirates? That might be fun with all those restrictions... of course I'm sure you'd get your ship eaten by a kraken the first time it left the dry dock...
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 11:14:35 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Kajhera

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Re: Help with low-power, low-magic world.
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2011, 11:16:54 PM »
Why are you using cows to pull your chariots? Use oxen. They're 5 more gold, but they are also meant to work, not to produce milk and meat, and thus a 'used' oxen shouldn't particularly depreciate.