Author Topic: Reasons to dislike Eberron  (Read 17511 times)

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Prime32

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Reasons to dislike Eberron
« on: August 26, 2011, 03:22:38 AM »
Following on from a similar thread on Forgotten Realms.

What things turn people off of Eberron? A few times I've seen someone react in shock to how different it is from most settings, but grow to love it once they started playing. I know a lot of aspects took a while to grow on me. Other things I've seen:
  • "Magic isn't rare and mystical enough."
  • "I hate steampunk."
  • "Changelings/kalashtar/shifters/warforged are dumb."
  • "The art is too anime." (WAT)
  • "Airships/magic trains remind me of Final Fantasy."
  • "It gives psionics a place."
  • "I prefer having good and evil as objective forces."
  • "There aren't enough powerful NPCs to scare PCs into line."
  • "Why the hell do halflings ride dinosaurs?!"
  • "The Planar Shepherd PrC was in an Eberron book."

I will try to rebut some of these later (except the psionics one, which I will rebut now), but first one of my own niggles:
The gods and planes are as bland as heck. Okay, by "the planes" I exclude Xoriat and Dal Quor which have large plot relevance. Likewise by "the gods" I mean mostly the Sovereign Host and the Dark Six, but they're supposed to be the most commonly worshipped. The good guys at least have proper names, but what post-The Gamers writer seriously calls a villain "The Shadow"? :p
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

InnaBinder

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 03:49:09 AM »
I'll step up as tending to agree with your 8th bullet-point, about not enough powerful NPCs to deal with the PCs.  Once the PCs reach double-digit levels, you may well have to contrive reasons why they aren't taking over a Dragonmarked house, or usurping the Brelish throne, or destroying the Karnathi armies by wiping out so many undead as to decimate them, etc.  Yes, you could point the PCs toward some other pressing business, but if any of the preceding strikes their fancy, they're pretty likely to succeed, barring Deus Ex Machina or whole-cloth changes to some of the canon.
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Unbeliever

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2011, 03:58:34 AM »
Shifters are kind of dumb.  Why not just make lycanthropes a race? 

I have the opposite feeling about the Steampunk.  If you're going to make a steampunk D&D settting, just fucking make it one (a la Iron Kingdoms).  Eberron falls into an uncanny valley where it's sort of steampunk, but then really not.  And, then some of the steampunk holes get plugged w/ magic.  I'd also make a decision:  either magic is mystical, or it's essentially like technology.  Again, Eberron seems to want it both ways.  If you want 2 different types of magic, then, one practiced by mystical treehugging elves and the other by artificers, then just throw in a simple mechanic (tweak arcane spell failure, etc.) and call them something different. 

I like the pulp approach to Eberron.  And, I like the post-war mentality, too.  But, I don't like how tepidly it seemed to approach the basic idea of a steampunk setting.  Oh, and I like their dragons a lot, actually.  Although I also loved the Dragons of Faerun book, so maybe those products just happened to be well-done. 

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2011, 04:28:20 AM »
I'll step up as tending to agree with your 8th bullet-point, about not enough powerful NPCs to deal with the PCs.  Once the PCs reach double-digit levels, you may well have to contrive reasons why they aren't taking over a Dragonmarked house, or usurping the Brelish throne, or destroying the Karnathi armies by wiping out so many undead as to decimate them, etc.  Yes, you could point the PCs toward some other pressing business, but if any of the preceding strikes their fancy, they're pretty likely to succeed, barring Deus Ex Machina or whole-cloth changes to some of the canon.
Some people might call that a feature, rather than a flaw:p
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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2011, 05:34:27 AM »
i love Eberron for 1-8th lv games. as for higher level it dosent really work when pcs can start turning whole armies of undead :lol

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2011, 05:44:22 AM »
One thing that really bugs the shit out of me about Eberron is they started to treat goblinoids seriously as people, but then backed off and decided to still have them be beneath everyone else.  WotC worships the ground kobolds shit on, but even in the setting where goblinoids were the ancient powerhouse empire, gobbos get little more than a grudging acknowledgment than they're humanoids?  Way to waste an opportunity for awesome, guys.
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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2011, 05:45:49 AM »
I'll step up as tending to agree with your 8th bullet-point, about not enough powerful NPCs to deal with the PCs.  Once the PCs reach double-digit levels, you may well have to contrive reasons why they aren't taking over a Dragonmarked house, or usurping the Brelish throne, or destroying the Karnathi armies by wiping out so many undead as to decimate them, etc.  Yes, you could point the PCs toward some other pressing business, but if any of the preceding strikes their fancy, they're pretty likely to succeed, barring Deus Ex Machina or whole-cloth changes to some of the canon.
Some people might call that a feature, rather than a flaw:p

Don't start that again!
4e tried to fix this problem by toning it all down by a lot and eliminating the wild card spells that were too powerful or dynamic. The issue is no one likes to go from Phenomenal Cosmic Power to itty bitty living space. Which is exactly what 4e tried to force on people.

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2011, 06:04:00 AM »
I hate Warforged.  They're cheesy, laden with way too many immunities for my liking, required their own new rules "living constructs" and STILL had endless threads of "Can my Warforged...?"

Oh, and the Planar Shepherd, as you mentioned.  Seriously.  What.  The. Hell?

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2011, 07:41:59 AM »
Well, key points of contention:
-The planes, as mentioned, are really neglected, despite having a unique and distinct cosmology, as the planes come in and out of conjunction. Dal Quor and Xoriat, as antagonist-planes get some attention, but for all that Sharn is even possible at all due to a planar bleed, the rest are ignored.

-The Dragon Below. Now, you get to explore below the earth, and theres some mentions and sample antagonists down there, but they don't affect the overworld much, if at all. Wouldn't be all that much trouble to flesh out near surface areas and what the surface worlders are doing with it all.

-The Dragon Above. I bemoan the lost opportunity really. You have ways and means to get up to the ring of Siberys, with bound elemental crafts. You'd think some explorers would be going there. For the massive lewt if anything.

-Planar Shepherd. Cool concept, but notable for being one of the few classes that can make Druid better, MUCH better.

-Shifters. Again, cool concept, middling execution. For a people persecuted for shapeshifting abilities and the like, they really don't shift much at all. Wouldn't have hurt to have shifting being something more prevalent.

-Artificers. Concept -> Execution. The class is either mad-awesome(when you abuse the crafting rules, but thats really just the crafting rules fault), or terrible. Ditch the infusions for a Craft-Schematics business and let them make their own array of unstable, but functional contraptions! Traps! Mini and not-so-mini constructs!

-Higher level play. There ARE antagonists available on the planar, dragon or underworld  levels, but none of these are given much fleshing out. How do you go take a whack at these forces when theres no detail on the matter?
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ImperatorK

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2011, 08:16:43 AM »
Quote
"Magic isn't rare and mystical enough."
Sometimes, when I need a change of pace or a little break from FRs high-magicness, I can play in Eberron.

Quote
"I hate steampunk."
I don't like steampunk. At least not in my fantasy. If I play D&D I want a LotR-esque game. Because of it's steampunkiness Eberron isn't that good for my.

Quote
"Changelings/kalashtar/shifters/warforged are dumb."
I love changelings, am indifferent to kalashtars and shifters and don't like warforged because of above points.

Quote
"The art is too anime." (WAT)
I didn't notice, but if it is it fails, because it doesn't appeal to me.

Quote
"Airships/magic trains remind me of Final Fantasy."
Yeah. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't like it in my fantasy.

Quote
"There aren't enough powerful NPCs to scare PCs into line."
I'm with InnaBinder on that one, although it's more "There's not enough published NPCs". Even in my homebrew setting I can create NPCs to keep the PCs in check, but it's just additional work for me. And I'm a lazy bum.

Quote
"Why the hell do halflings ride dinosaurs?!"
That's actually hilarious.

Quote
Some people might call that a feature, rather than a flaw.
Yes. I even said it in the FR thread.
A flaw would be something that makes the game somehow less playable for everyone. Yet that what you could call a flaw is just something you don't like, but someone else loves it.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 08:20:13 AM by ImperatorK »
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[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

 Plus, where other clerics say "For Pelor," "For Nerull," or "For Crom?" You get to say, "FOR SCIENCE!" *fanfare*

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I know your game, you just want a magical Amazon.com to knock off those good ol' honest magic shops run by polite, old wizards!
Use Iron Heart Surge on the sun. That'll teach him to use fluff as RAW.

Damn you! You totally ruined my build that was all about getting epic far shot early and throwing my enemies into the sun!
[/spoiler]

LordBlades

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2011, 10:40:42 AM »
What I don't really like about Eberron:

-The lack of published material regarding some aspects of the world (like the planes, Syberys and Khyber etc)
-The fact that quite a lot of (very nice IMHO) material is so much connected to the lore that it makes a pain in the ass to try to import it in another setting without changing it's feeling radically.
-Past a certain level the world starts to crumble around the PCs, as in there's little in the published material capable to oppose them.





ImperatorK

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2011, 11:24:49 AM »
Funny. That's the total opposite of FR. Yet I don't really feel that the two settings are THAT different. They're on different levels (one is low-powered/low-mediocre-magic, the other high-powered/high-magic), yes, but overall...
"I'm done thinking for today! It's caused me enough trouble!"
"Take less damage to avoid being killed."
"In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."


[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

 Plus, where other clerics say "For Pelor," "For Nerull," or "For Crom?" You get to say, "FOR SCIENCE!" *fanfare*

About me:
Quote from: dark_samuari
I know your game, you just want a magical Amazon.com to knock off those good ol' honest magic shops run by polite, old wizards!
Use Iron Heart Surge on the sun. That'll teach him to use fluff as RAW.

Damn you! You totally ruined my build that was all about getting epic far shot early and throwing my enemies into the sun!
[/spoiler]

oslecamo

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2011, 01:11:09 PM »
Reasons why I only played straight Eberron once:
-Besides the dragons, it really doesn't have any space for high level characters.
-Warforged are suposed to be easily mass produced constructs, yet have no rules whatsoever for creating them.
-The above can actualy be said about a lot of Eberron's steampunk stuff, like the rail train.
-Airship rules suck.
-Hippie orcs. THOSE DAMN HIPPIE ORCS! What happend to bloodthirsty proud warriors?
-Suffers from 40K grimstupidness, where we have massive magic floating cities with mass produced magic tech in one corner wich are suposed to be open to everybody and centers of innovation and trade, and then a mud farm at three hours walk.
-Worst gods and religion ever.
-Arguably even more broken than Forgoten realms. Artificer, Planar Sheperd, those cheap psionic spike thingies that increase ML and stack, you name it.

So I developed my own post-apocalyptic Eberron setting, where most of civilization and organizations colapsed under their own stupidity (artficers and planar sheperds also helped) and new deities raised that do demand proper worship, and all magitech that couldn't be properly justified is simply gone.

-Artificers. Concept -> Execution. The class is either mad-awesome(when you abuse the crafting rules, but thats really just the crafting rules fault)

Thing is, you don't need to abuse the crafting rules. At all. The artficer class already does it for you. So I get everybody else's spells two levels earlier? And free metamagic? And free crafting exp? What else could I ask for?

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2011, 01:15:10 PM »
I have the opposite feeling about the Steampunk.  If you're going to make a steampunk D&D settting, just fucking make it one (a la Iron Kingdoms).  Eberron falls into an uncanny valley where it's sort of steampunk, but then really not.  And, then some of the steampunk holes get plugged w/ magic.  I'd also make a decision:  either magic is mystical, or it's essentially like technology.  Again, Eberron seems to want it both ways.  If you want 2 different types of magic, then, one practiced by mystical treehugging elves and the other by artificers, then just throw in a simple mechanic (tweak arcane spell failure, etc.) and call them something different.  
Eberron doesn't have any steampunk really, it's Dungeon Punk. Steampunk is where steam power advanced further and became central to society. Eberron does the same thing with magic, examining how such a civilisation would grow from the ground up.


Any sufficiently analysed magic is indistinguishable from technology. Even if some parts are inexplicable, man can and will take advantage of the parts he can understand.
Here's another example: http://everything2.com/title/How%2520mages%2520discovered%2520the%2520scientific%2520method

The more mystical magic is mostly buried in the ruins of lost civilisations. House Cannith relies on black boxes to construct the warforged. It's like in Indiana Jones where the ancient artefacts are implied to be advanced technology, except without that last part. I should also note that Eberron has rules for ancient spells which are so hard to understand that you can only learn and cast them once. Apart from that, most people will never advance far enough to master mid-level spells (apart from maybe the ones related to their dragonmark, which they can control through items), so they're going to seem pretty impressive. And there are plenty of things modern science doesn't understand yet. (How did they make Damascus steel? Why is the Sun inside out?)

Also, Eberron doesn't have treehugging elves. It has treehugging orcs. :p
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 01:27:09 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2011, 01:20:58 PM »
Hey, I just wanted to add that I like ebberon for giving psionics a cannon home.
Thank you, Wizards.

also... I hated it at first. I'll have to elaborate later though. zzzzzzzzzzzzz...........
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Prime32

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2011, 01:21:05 PM »
-Warforged are suposed to be easily mass produced constructs, yet have no rules whatsoever for creating them.
That's because 1. you need an artefact to create them, 2. it's not legal any more, and 3. how warforged work is one of the great mysteries of the setting.

Quote
-The above can actualy be said about a lot of Eberron's steampunk stuff, like the rail train.
There are prices for lightning rails and conductor stones, and the mechanics of how they work are explained. And steampunk requires steam power, which is completely absent from the setting. The lightning rail is pulled by air elementals, like a giant golem but harder to control.

Quote
-Suffers from 40K grimstupidness, where we have massive magic floating cities with mass produced magic tech in one corner wich are suposed to be open to everybody and centers of innovation and trade, and then a mud farm at three hours walk.
Did you have a specific place in mind here? The mud farm can still afford magical healing. And someone still has to run the farms.

Quote
So I developed my own post-apocalyptic Eberron setting, where most of civilization and organizations colapsed under their own stupidity (artficers and planar sheperds also helped) and new deities raised that do demand proper worship, and all magitech that couldn't be properly justified is simply gone.
What magitech "couldn't be properly justified"?

Quote
-Artificers. Concept -> Execution. The class is either mad-awesome(when you abuse the crafting rules, but thats really just the crafting rules fault)

Thing is, you don't need to abuse the crafting rules. At all. The artficer class already does it for you. So I get everybody else's spells two levels earlier? And free metamagic? And free crafting exp? What else could I ask for?
One level earlier</minor nitpick>
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 01:42:55 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

ImperatorK

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2011, 01:39:56 PM »
Quote
What magitech "can't be properly justified"?
Isn't it a flaw that you have to justify something?
"I'm done thinking for today! It's caused me enough trouble!"
"Take less damage to avoid being killed."
"In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."


[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

 Plus, where other clerics say "For Pelor," "For Nerull," or "For Crom?" You get to say, "FOR SCIENCE!" *fanfare*

About me:
Quote from: dark_samuari
I know your game, you just want a magical Amazon.com to knock off those good ol' honest magic shops run by polite, old wizards!
Use Iron Heart Surge on the sun. That'll teach him to use fluff as RAW.

Damn you! You totally ruined my build that was all about getting epic far shot early and throwing my enemies into the sun!
[/spoiler]

oslecamo

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2011, 01:53:03 PM »
-Warforged are suposed to be easily mass produced constructs, yet have no rules whatsoever for creating them.
That's because 1. you need an artefact to create them, 2. it's not legal any more, and 3. how warforged work is one of the great mysteries of the setting.
1-Except they're a very recent creation in the timeline of Eberron, and there's multiple forges. Somebody not very long ago had to build them.
1.a-And heck, even artefacts have rules in D&D! Warforged forges have not.
2-Yeah, because something being illegal always stoped the PCs or some shady organization from wanting to use it. :rollseyes
3-They're one of the most recent developments in the setting. There's multiple forges. They have trillions of warforged-specific upgrades and prcs and variants. They know how warforgeds work better than they know how most other things work!

Quote
-The above can actualy be said about a lot of Eberron's steampunk stuff, like the rail train.
There are prices for lightning rails and conductor stones, and the mechanics of how they work are explained. And steampunk requires steam power, which is completely absent from the setting. The lightning rail is pulled by air elementals, like a giant golem but harder to control.
So it requires magic steam. Is still steam.

Quote
-Suffers from 40K grimstupidness, where we have massive magic floating cities with mass produced magic tech in one corner wich are suposed to be open to everybody and centers of innovation and trade, and then a mud farm at three hours walk.
Did you have a specific place in mind here? The mud farm can still afford magical healing. And someone still has to run the farms.
Damn hippie orcs made a fortune plucking shiny stones from the mud despite having literally nothing else. Makes one wonder why somebody didn't just go there with an undead/warforged army and plucked the stones themselves.

What magitech "can't be properly justified"?
Warforgeds for one that are at the same time mass produced constructs to wich have been developed tons of upgrades and variants, yet nobody knows how to build them. Yet they're built.

Then why don't those crafter homunculus still haven't taken over living labor.

Plenty of others all along the books.

Quote
-Artificers. Concept -> Execution. The class is either mad-awesome(when you abuse the crafting rules, but thats really just the crafting rules fault)

Thing is, you don't need to abuse the crafting rules. At all. The artficer class already does it for you. So I get everybody else's spells two levels earlier? And free metamagic? And free crafting exp? What else could I ask for?
One level earlier</minor nitpick>

A third level artificer can get 3rd level spells, whereas other casters need at least 5th level. The artificer is geting them two character levels earlier.

And let's not speak of what happens when you start to abuse lower level spells from obacure Prcs or combining it with Ur-Priest.

Prime32

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2011, 02:07:20 PM »
-Warforged are suposed to be easily mass produced constructs, yet have no rules whatsoever for creating them.
That's because 1. you need an artefact to create them, 2. it's not legal any more, and 3. how warforged work is one of the great mysteries of the setting.
1-Except they're a very recent creation in the timeline of Eberron, and there's multiple forges. Somebody not very long ago had to build them.
1.a-And heck, even artefacts have rules in D&D! Warforged forges have not.
2-Yeah, because something being illegal always stoped the PCs or some shady organization from wanting to use it. :rollseyes
3-They're one of the most recent developments in the setting. There's multiple forges. They have trillions of warforged-specific upgrades and prcs and variants. They know how warforgeds work better than they know how most other things work.
Warforged are not recent. They and many of their upgrades/variants were around as far back as the Age of Giants (the giants and quori used them as minions before the latter started taking over Riedra), and House Cannith just recently figured out how to recreate them. And it still doesn't explain why they're sentient now. Those warforged PrCs were invented by warforged themselves, who don't have to sleep and learn at insane speeds while they're young. All kinds of crazy weapons get invented in the middle of a war, often within insane timeframes - Cannith probably has warehouses filled with rejects like five-headed warforged who talk like Pokémon.

Quote
Quote
-The above can actualy be said about a lot of Eberron's steampunk stuff, like the rail train.
There are prices for lightning rails and conductor stones, and the mechanics of how they work are explained. And steampunk requires steam power, which is completely absent from the setting. The lightning rail is pulled by air elementals, like a giant golem but harder to control.
So it requires magic steam. Is still steam.
That's like saying a horse-drawn carriage has an internal combustion engine because you need to feed the horse. The "lightning" isn't even from the elemental, it's raw magical energy leaking from the mag-lev rails conductor stones as they're put under pressure. There isn't any heat, let alone steam.

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What magitech "can't be properly justified"?
Warforgeds fors one that are at the same time mass produced constructs to wich have been developed tons of upgrades and variants, yet nobody knows how to build them.
They know how to build them, it's just that the process involves an artefact. And you can give a man a prosthetic limb or glasses without understanding how to make a man. It's explicitly stated that warforged bodies are very easy to modify compared to most creatures.

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Then why don't those crafter homunculus still haven't taken over living labor.
They're too small for mundane work, they're only good for enchanting items. And they're easily destroyed by vandals. And not everyone has the Craft Construct feat or wants to make something out of their own blood.


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-Artificers. Concept -> Execution. The class is either mad-awesome(when you abuse the crafting rules, but thats really just the crafting rules fault)

Thing is, you don't need to abuse the crafting rules. At all. The artficer class already does it for you. So I get everybody else's spells two levels earlier? And free metamagic? And free crafting exp? What else could I ask for?
One level earlier</minor nitpick>

A third level artificer can get 3rd level spells, whereas other casters need at least 5th level. The artificer is geting them two character levels earlier.

And let's not speak of what happens when you start to abuse lower level spells from obacure Prcs or combining it with Ur-Priest.
I'm not arguing with you on this, artificer is silly-powerful.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 02:21:41 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: Reasons to dislike Eberron
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2011, 03:17:26 PM »
I'll step up as tending to agree with your 8th bullet-point, about not enough powerful NPCs to deal with the PCs.  Once the PCs reach double-digit levels, you may well have to contrive reasons why they aren't taking over a Dragonmarked house, or usurping the Brelish throne, or destroying the Karnathi armies by wiping out so many undead as to decimate them, etc.  Yes, you could point the PCs toward some other pressing business, but if any of the preceding strikes their fancy, they're pretty likely to succeed, barring Deus Ex Machina or whole-cloth changes to some of the canon.
I've heard this about it, too. Mostly that they get too powerful for the world to really contain them. It just wasn't designed for it.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]