Author Topic: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?  (Read 6881 times)

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Sinfire Titan

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2011, 10:58:49 AM »
SotAO is a good feat and the spells it provides can be used for other things, but a SotAO Paladin is not the same as a Charger Paladin. They are two very different builds, and it is tedious to combine them.

In terms of damage output, Wraithstrike a maximum of 6/day is inferior to Shock Trooper. Furthermore Shock Trooper comes online at 6th level, whereas SotAO can't give you Wraithstrike until 8th level. This is the important part. Find the Gap doesn't work until 11th, so that's even more of a gap.

Quote
Fine, if you're optimizing ubercharging, but this thread is about optimizing smiting

I swear if I had half a penny for every time someone called a Shock Trooper build an Ubercharger I'd be able to pay for my great-grandkid's great grandkid's master's degree and retirement plans thrice over.


A Shock Trooper build is a build that utilizes the charge action and any ability or feat that can bolster it to create a character that can one-shot kill most enemies of equal level, starting around level 6. This usually involves obtaining Pounce, which is one of the best ways to boost your damage output.

The Ubercharger was a TO build designed around the Shock Trooper base, but utilizing a questionable tactic: Combining the benefits of a Mounted character using a Valorus Lance with the effects of the Leap Attack feat and Pounce. This is questionable because it required you to leap off of your mount while charging and still apply the benefits for being mounted to every attack you made that round. This build was capable of one-shot killing EVERY non-Epic creature ever printed.


Never use the term "Ubercharger" to describe a Shock Trooper build. Doing so is potholing to a different trope.


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Waazraath

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2011, 11:22:32 AM »
Sinfire: as for ubercharger, it was only mentioned in reply to the post above that mentioned uber charging. But if it's a term that might be confusing, I'll refrain from using it.

Quote
In terms of damage output, Wraithstrike a maximum of 6/day is inferior to Shock Trooper. Furthermore Shock Trooper comes online at 6th level, whereas SotAO can't give you Wraithstrike until 8th level. This is the important part. Find the Gap doesn't work until 11th, so that's even more of a gap.

Quote
So at the most, the shock trooper route, for a charging smiting paladin, only has some advantages at level 6-10; during those levels, without shock trooper a paladin can only power attack for full a limited times/day.


Eh... seems we agree here? It's just that for a paladin, I think you're better off using your feats for other stuff then shock trooper, like the mounted combat tree. I'm to lazy to do the exact math, but I think comparing a mounted charge from a paladin with shock trooper (+12 damage with power attack), double damage using lance won't result in much more damage then a mounted charge of a paladin without shock trooper but with the mounted combat tree, that does triple damage...



As for the numbers/day: a pearl of power 2nd level costs 4k, so shouldn't be too hard to regain some wraithstrikes.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 11:38:42 AM by Waazraath »

snakeman830

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2011, 11:39:54 AM »
Besides, Shock Trooper gets a lot of use in Knock-back builds too, since 2/3 features apply to Bull Rush and not necessarily charging.
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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2011, 06:09:30 PM »
Quote
But if it's a term that might be confusing, I'll refrain from using it.
Yeah it really is... I was scatching my head for a second there.
We've taken to calling them Superchargers, which is the same thing but is at least a distiction like at all.
In anycase I was thinking maybe there are other things which enhance smiteing I don't remember then like at all though.
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SorO_Lost

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2011, 06:17:02 PM »
with the added advantage that after you're attack, even if it failed, you're nowhere near your enemy.
You do know the Paladin's Smite is melee only right? Your example is at best based on the concept you started your turn next to the creature, Smote it, then Tumbled away ignoring AoOs from every creature near you (how?), with a land speed greater than four times the monster so far that it doesn't just charge you in retaliation. But I'm sure you knew that and that's why all your Paladins charge after blowing a Standard Action and all their 1/day buffs to prep them selves for one quarter of the fights per day.

Btw, AC being useless from 5th level onward is highly exagerated imho.
By a level or maybe two. 3rd level seems a little close though. Oooh you meant the other way, umm. No. What do you have by level 5? Full Plate? +1 Full-Plate? Did you pick up a Bucklar for +1 more and -1 to attacks? Let's call them both +1s for AC 20.

Here are the 1st five CR monsters in the MMI.
Achaierai: +9/+9/+4 (39 HP).
Air Elemental, Large: +12/+12 (60 HP, can't smite).
Animated Object, Huge: +9 (84 HP, can't smite).
Arrowhawk, Adult: +12 ranged touch (38 HP, can't smite).
Barghest, Greater: +13/+13/+8 (67 HP).
And the last five.
Wraith: +5 touch (32 HP).
Winter Wolf: +9 (and auto tries to trip with a +8 modifier) (51 HP).
Weretiger, Hybrid Form: +11/+11/+6 (50 HP, possible can't smite).
Werebear, Hybrid Form: +13/+9/+11 (62 HP, possible can't smite).
Water Elemental, Large: +10/+10 (68 HP, can't smite).

The worst attacker there is the mindless floating rock with a 45% hit chance with it's one and only attack. The rest very from hits on a 7, hits as often as miss chances, and hits multiple times with 11s, etc. Level 5 is when things such as Blink, Displacement, Fly, Invisibility Sphere, Protection form Energy, Major Image, even Gaseous Form join the AC-Less tactics such as Hiding or hireling walls all of which sport the same if not better chances of avoiding attacks.

Exaggerated? Maybe, but it's not too far off. You know I included the HP part to help draw a picture for you too, see you claimed to one hit kill while Smiting when in fact not even with the triple modifier from Charging Smite can do more than halve you opponent's HP (if it works at all). You are dependent on stacking charge damage multipliers later on but you know what that goes back to? Optimizing the charge section of the attack. And here I poke in telling you you're wrong on ST sucking as it sports a superior hit rate (and damage) than even Touch Attacks which is very impotent when you talk about Pounce. Apparently you don't want to talk about multiple attacks and I have no damn clue why. Smiting is a free action buff applied to any "normal" melee attack, not to an attack that used a Standard Attack, but any normal melee attack (opposed to say the touch attack portion of a grapple). Pounce would let you Charge Smite & 3 other Smites within the same round and all of them would be using your super high charge based multiplier. That's right, I'm talking four times the damage with the option to use four Smites per round.

Your comment on "'trading away turning for a 3/day hit boost is superior" I can't place, since I didn't mention anything like it.
Of course not, why would you mention it?

Fast fact, Waithstrike is Assassin/Wizard/Sorcerer, not Paladin. You need UMD or Sword of the Arcane Order (which I thought required you to be a Mystic Fire Knight). Excluding your intelligence modifier, you don't even get a possible 3 slots to use on Wraithstrike until level 15. Even at level 20 you have a base 3 slots unless you want to run down the road 4th/5th level wizard spells suck. Your forsaking Shock Trooper to use an inferior tactic that won't even get you though the day's worth of encounters.

If somehow I failed to make myself clear, look here: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10057.0 in the first post for some extensive examples of what I'm talking about.
...Flavorful? No, it's not even that. Every single build is charge based and most have no other options. You claimed to feat tight to increase you only tactic while using things like Divine Might, Divine Vigor, [Domain] Devotion, and other crap in almost every build.

Really, not kidding on the Devotion part, look at them. Animal for the mounted human, Knowledge with the single level dip into a class with skills, Law with the green lady worshiping elf, Travel on the charger, Death for the Was Jas flavored RVK, and the only one with Bonus Feats has THREE Devotions. The only ones that don't are ironic or oxymorons. The Saint isn't Devoted and the one named mountless with a pet dragon and Ride-By-Attack. Even your unbuilt MoMF talks about Devotion buffs. Your concept for those builds seems to be based on reading down the line of Devotion feats. You seem to also think you only have one encounter per day so blowing all your 1/day buffs and very little spell slots on inferior boosts is worth something. And maybe all of those short sighted views are all linked to one thing. You're new, hence why I haven't called you an idiot or anything, just widening your horizons to understand greatness. Now you hopefully understand you are not feat tight, you can Smite the crap out of things with ST & Pounce, and AC really is pretty lame. If not, stick around BG stuff like this comes up often enough in the more populated threads.

***

Quote
Fine, if you're optimizing ubercharging, but this thread is about optimizing smiting
I swear if I had half a penny for every time someone called a Shock Trooper build an Ubercharger I'd be able to pay for my great-grandkid's great grandkid's master's degree and retirement plans thrice over.
I technically refer to Shock Trooper being required for ubercharging (not even then I'm not talking about the build Ubercharger). Really all the rest is negotiable. Sure Charging Smite, Spell Channeling Harm, Ruby Nightmare Blade powering Quickened Blast or what ever can deal lots of damage during a charge, but the moment you mention Pounce any other method is dwarfed by using Shock Trooper. ST+Pouncing simply deals significantly more damage with better hit rates than the other alternative methods making them the keystones and given you can just buy multipliers/bonusdamage/pounce ST is fundamentally the staple point every high damaging charger needs to be called a high damage charger. Like you for wouldn't call the Wizard a meleer just because he has the option to Shapechange and use Tensor's Transformation or Rogue a mage for UMDing wands, just because someone has an option that works better as a charge doesn't mean they are a charger. And when your centered around charging, you really shouldn't claim you're better off without Shock Trooper because you picked crap.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2011, 10:21:17 PM »
By a level or maybe two. 3rd level seems a little close though. Oooh you meant the other way, umm. No. What do you have by level 5? Full Plate? +1 Full-Plate? Did you pick up a Bucklar for +1 more and -1 to attacks? Let's call them both +1s for AC 20.

Here are the 1st five CR monsters in the MMI.
Achaierai: +9/+9/+4 (39 HP).
Air Elemental, Large: +12/+12 (60 HP, can't smite).
Animated Object, Huge: +9 (84 HP, can't smite).
Arrowhawk, Adult: +12 ranged touch (38 HP, can't smite).
Barghest, Greater: +13/+13/+8 (67 HP).
And the last five.
Wraith: +5 touch (32 HP).
Winter Wolf: +9 (and auto tries to trip with a +8 modifier) (51 HP).
Weretiger, Hybrid Form: +11/+11/+6 (50 HP, possible can't smite).
Werebear, Hybrid Form: +13/+9/+11 (62 HP, possible can't smite).
Water Elemental, Large: +10/+10 (68 HP, can't smite).
First off, a +1 buckler is a fine piece of gear.  Githcraft is a cheap add-on that makes it arcanist-friendly.  It's about 1k, provides a +2 bonus to AC, no ACP, and can also carry another cheap enhancement like Mindarmor and/or a Lesser Crystal of Arrow Deflection (whose primary function is, actually, to deflect ray attacks).

Secondly, full plate is rarely the best option for a character.  Indeed, the effectiveness of a suit of +1 full plate is eclipsed by a Luminous Armor spell, with the latter providing an effective +4 to AC against touch attacks as well as the usual bonus.

That's an AC of 21 right there, with a pretty simple spell and a staple piece of adventuring gear.  As you point out, that's pretty close to a 50% miss chance against the attacks of all those monsters.  On the other hand, Blur and Displacement provide only comparable results for significantly shorter periods of time.  So no, AC is still useful at level 5.  In fact, it's probably at least as important as saves at this point, because low-level save-or-sucks generally aren't enough to win a fight outright unless someone runs up to you and beats your AC with attack rolls.  The reason AC becomes really difficult to utilize later on is because it just doesn't keep up with attack rolls, not because it's an inherently flawed mechanic.

snakeman830

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2011, 11:07:01 PM »
The reason AC becomes really difficult to utilize later on is because it just doesn't keep up with attack rolls, not because it's an inherently flawed mechanic.
Well, that and the fact that fewer and fewer enemies even make attack rolls.
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Waazraath

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2011, 06:19:22 AM »
with the added advantage that after you're attack, even if it failed, you're nowhere near your enemy.
You do know the Paladin's Smite is melee only right? Your example is at best based on the concept you started your turn next to the creature, Smote it, then Tumbled away ignoring AoOs from every creature near you (how?), with a land speed greater than four times the monster so far that it doesn't just charge you in retaliation. But I'm sure you knew that and that's why all your Paladins charge after blowing a Standard Action and all their 1/day buffs to prep them selves for one quarter of the fights per day.

 ??? eh... I think the words "mounted combat" have been used only 3 times in the posts above the one you started to reply to. Please, don't bother to actually read the thread you're replying to, especially if you're going to make an argument about it. THe patronizing and insulting is getting a bit dissapointing fast, in this way.

Or, just to be certain: there are these feats, 'ride by attack' and spirited charge', which allow to move charge, and move again doing a mounted charge. No need to start next to the creature, and there's no tumbling involved. Great, ay?

Then you post some creatures, their attack bonus and hp... great! Let's do some math, since apperently, it's neccesary to make my point. Level 6 paladin, let's take the very basic one, from my build compendium, without any fancy stuff, straith pally 6. Assume Str and Cha 16, for the hell of it. 13k gold, assume a +1 gloryborn lance, (2600), 3 level 1 pearls of power (3000), a +1 full plate (2600) and a +1 shield (1150)... numbers are just aprox, but close enough, there's still some gc left for a belt of healing, or whatever. With no dex modifier, AC is 10 + 9 + 3 = 22.

Just curious, by the way: how are you going to equip a 6th level melee character with a similar miss chance? Or any miss chance at all?

Then the damage. With rhino rush (1st level, SpC), this character can 4, maybe 5 times/day make a mounted charge with quadruple damage. Count with me... 4,5, + 3 (str), +6 (smite), +1 (magic), +1 (gloryborn) +3 (powerattack), that's about 18,5 damage,  the -3 to hit from power attack being compensated with the +3 to hit from smite. x4, that's 74 damage. Yes, more then enough to kill almost every evil opponent of CR 6 and higher, including devils (kyton, hellcat), demons (babu, succubus), but also mind flayers (CR8), efreeti (CR7), night hags (CR9).

Indeed, it won't be enough against giants or dragons, but it'll make the difference. The 'to hit' isn't much of an issue: 6 (bab) + 3 (str) + 1 (magic) + 2 (charge) +1 (higher ground) should be enough about 60% of the time; can be increased with using less power attack (still enough damage to one shot most of those mentioned above), or spending gc on to hit instead of AC.

As for the rest:
- I'll ignore your comments on the build compendium... but the same goes as for this thread: if you don't bother to read it, then why bother to critisize?
- no, SotAO doesn't require mystic fire knight
- I'm not interested in pounce because I want to do something else. Yes, you can pounce and smite, great, even 4 times, but that only makes the limited amount of smites go all the sooner. What this thread is about, as is clearly shown in the title, is optimizing SMITE. The discussion was on how to do that by multiplying damage times/many. And I think I've shown it can be viable. Even though you can't use smite evil on non-evil creatrues, like you mentioned for several of the creatures you posted... really, no shit Sherlock! You can't smite evil an non-evil creature. Thanks for the insight, my mentor, and for this wonderful contribution to a thread about smiting evil, you earned the right to patronize. Contrary to those boring people who make helpful suggestions about prestige classes (that can smite everything, btw) or feats.

On a sidenote, you might consider that patronizing and insulting (cause yes, 'you're new so I won't call you an idiot' is in fact calling me an idiot) isn't the best way to start any conversation. It's not too nice in the first place, but besides that, you might be off topic, didn't read well enough or may be simply wrong, and then it's even a more sub par way of communicating with people.

SorO_Lost

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2011, 03:33:35 PM »
<sniped>Mounted (duh)</snip>
<snip>Yeah AC! Good thing we're talking level 5 here</snip>
<snip>Oh yeah, I am killing monsters with all my bonus NONE SMITE DAMAGE so ha!</snip>
<snip>You didn't read the thread, this is about SMITE! Talking about additional bonus damage, extra attacks, Smiting more than once per round, blasphemy!</snip>
<snip>Pounce sucks, I run out of Smites too fast.</snip>
<snip>Ahh you pointed out my builds display exactly what you spoke of before, I'm having second thoughts on linking you to it and telling you to read it...</snip>

Well Paladin is the worst way to obtain Smite so of course you'll run out. I hear Which Slayer gives 5 over five levels and Fist of Razial gives 5 over ten levels (with improvements). If prerequisites can be met, use Paladin 5 for the base (for charging smite) and you'll end up with 12 Smites per day, which is way more than spellcasters have 9th level slots. Not that Smite is even worth a 5th level slot but still...

Maybe I'll get a build out (tomorrow), I'm sure I can swing x5 on charges with 10 Smites per day easy enough.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 03:49:06 PM by SorO_Lost »
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Waazraath

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2011, 04:22:00 PM »
"killing bonus with no smite damamage so ha"... dude, whatever. If you bothered to read, again, you'd see 24 damage is from smite in the calculations that I did... yeah, indeed, for all those monsters mentioned the difference between kill / no kill. As for all the other funny (haha) summarizations you made of what I wrote... whatever. No use arguing with somebody who has his fingers in his ears, I can spend my time better then this. Have a nice day.

snakeman830

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2011, 06:10:01 PM »
"killing bonus with no smite damamage so ha"... dude, whatever. If you bothered to read, again, you'd see 24 damage is from smite in the calculations that I did... yeah, indeed, for all those monsters mentioned the difference between kill / no kill. As for all the other funny (haha) summarizations you made of what I wrote... whatever. No use arguing with somebody who has his fingers in his ears, I can spend my time better then this. Have a nice day.
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Amechra

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2011, 11:26:06 PM »
I'm just going to say that Smiting Charge is the nicest thing to ever happen to a Paladin. The whole "If the attack misses, the smite isn't wasted" is so wonderful, it is practically orgasmic (at least compared to the normal "Oh, you missed? Sucks to be you!")

In addition, the best I can get as a "multiplier" for Smite damage is x12 (Destructive Smite+Smiting Charge+Triadic Smite.)
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
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Phoenix00

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2011, 01:19:40 AM »
Doesn't smiting work well with the Diamond Mind maneuvers?

Ivory Knight

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2011, 01:18:22 PM »
Smite does work well with practically anything, that happens to increase your chance to hit a target :p
For Paladins, I have seen groups using Eagle's Splendor on the Paladin, to up his (lousy, despite having full BAB) Attack :banghead

Never had that particular problem myself, because I don't enter a class that needs CHA with that stat lower than 16-18 at ECL 1.

SorO_Lost

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Re: witch slayer (ToM): ultimate smite evil enhancer?
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2011, 05:05:44 AM »
[spoiler]
If you bothered to read, again, you'd see 24 damage is from smite in the calculations that I did...
And you sir continue to miss the point staring at you in the face. Your Smite's 24 damage is only half the average HP of a CR 5 monster. You are entirely dependent on your none smite damage to make up the difference and get you though every encounter you can't Smite and though every encounter where the Smite use limitation prevents you from using it. Charging is not only your only real offense, but your aim for higher Smite damage is based from you stacking charge damage multipliers. You are dependent on Charging. You even shot down the concept of Smiting multiple times per round simply because you only have to many Smites per day. It's like turning down Celerity, Time Stop, and Quicken Spell as a Wizard and claiming your limited spells per day is the reason you shouldn't cast spells. You don't want to listen, who the hell cares, other people read these threads and those are whom I am concerned with.
***[/spoiler]

Doesn't smiting work well with the Diamond Mind maneuvers?
The Nightmage Blade line yes. Though it tops out at x4 damage and you'll be running at your Smite's base damage, it would make a great fall back for a RKV build though.

btw.

Visa, Paladin of Charging.
Human Charging Smite Paladin 5 / Witch Hunter 5 / Fist of Raziel 10.
Feats (2 flaws, in no real order): Battle Jump, Power Attack, Servant Of The Havens, Battle Blessing, Sword Of The Arcane Order, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge.
Items: Battle Boots, +5 Valorous Lance, +5 Valorous Large Claws of the Leopard, Gloves Of The Shadow Hand(child of shadow).
Offense Notes: 15 Smites per day and each one is normally +20 damage though they also augment various other properties (such as fiend smite & chaining). On a mounted charge Smite adds a total 300 damage thanks to both a global x5 multiple and Charging Smite, combined with Power Attack's +200 and your base damage and easy 35+ to hit you utterly slay anything dumb enough to call it's self Evil. Battle Blessing/SotAO allows for varies buffs of choice to be cast (such as the bite of line) for further offensive augmentation. For both his alternative option of attack and against large groups he can choose to fall from his soaring mount to initiate Battle Jump for a second charge per round in which he uses the Claws to attack and while this attack only uses a triple multiplier, he makes four attacks while doing so and each one could potentially deliver a additional Charging Smites. This allows him to reliable kill several enemies (up to 8 a round!) at once rather than only being able to focus on one target at a time.
Defensive Notes: The maxed out ranks in Ride help defend the Mount from various attacks and to be guided by the Paladin's knees. The Mount it's self need to be capable of Flight with a high fly speed and intelligent enough to handle wearing a Belt of Lions(MoF, 20k) and Masterwork Tool of Tumble for a minimum +12 to Tumble checks to meet the DC 15 to avoid AoOs for it's movement. This allows for the Paladin to ride in releasing a deadly charge attack utterly decimating his opponent and move away trying using the terrain and distance to avoid retaliation. By dedicating his 2nd level Spell slots towards Wings of Cover he can avoid some of the most brutal spells cast at him and Child of Shadow even grants the Paladin Concealment against attacks for a very low price (<5k).
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]