Author Topic: I want to destroy other spellcasters  (Read 8895 times)

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Inufandom

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I want to destroy other spellcasters
« on: August 17, 2011, 08:49:03 PM »
Alright, I have a character concept that I would like some help developing. I'm rather new to DnD, having only been playing for a few years. I want a spellcaster based around the bard, but with more BOOM when it comes to spell casting. I was thinking sublime chord, but does anyone know of anything else there could be as well as what spells to pick for the character to absolutely DESTROY any opponent? Some SR would be nice in the build as well.
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Solo

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2011, 08:53:57 PM »
Taint Scholar?

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Nytemare3701

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2011, 01:45:42 AM »
My advice: Focus on counterspells and lockdown effects.

My other advice: Post in the correct forum :-P

Inufandom

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2011, 04:34:36 AM »
what would you suggest for those? and I thought this was the right forum for making or requesting advice to make broken characters  :D
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Camille: You know the only wish you can make on it is not to gain weight from it, right?
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Camille: Don't blame me when this plan backfires -_-;

Nytemare3701

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 07:50:18 AM »
For counterspells, I'd ask to play a Blue Mage. They make great counterspellers, and at later levels you get to learn whatever you counterspell.

As for this forum? This is where people usually post ideas or observations on REALLY broken stuff, not ask for help.

Littha

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2011, 08:20:08 AM »
what would you suggest for those? and I thought this was the right forum for making or requesting advice to make broken characters  :D

What you consider broken and what we consider broken probably don't match up.

Shiki

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2011, 09:18:24 AM »
Planar Shepherd ;)
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Littha

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2011, 09:35:37 AM »
Planar Shepherd ;)

It is extremely strong but I don't think its quite "You Break It, You Buy It" material. Unless its attached to a druid who might as well make it here anyway.

Most the stuff here is builds for 1 million+ attacks or destroying planets...

PhaedrusXY

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2011, 02:21:48 PM »
Planar Shepherd ;)

It is extremely strong but I don't think its quite "You Break It, You Buy It" material. Unless its attached to a druid who might as well make it here anyway. plane that gives you 10+ rounds of actions to everyone else's 1, or infinite wishes.

Most the stuff here is builds for 1 million+ attacks or destroying planets...
FTFY

And +1 to the Planar Shepard suggestion, if you want a broken spellcaster who can destroy other spellcasters. Of course... you can do the same or worse with a high level wizard... Hell, you can get both near-infinite actions per round and infinite wishes as well as Epic spells with a wizard that can cast 9th level spells.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 02:23:30 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Garryl

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2011, 03:54:02 PM »
If all you want is infinite actions, Ardent 10 will do it (or 11 if you need truly infinite actions and not just way more than you can ever use).

Garryl's Casual Disconcern for the Action Economy-
[spoiler]Garryl came up with this trick, which is yet another way for psychics (in this case, Ardents) to tell the Action Economy to shut up and sit down.

Doable as early as Ardent 10.
Requires: Ardent 10, Dominant Ideal ACF, Substitute Powers ACF, Time mantle, Synchronicity power, Linked Power feat.
Optional: Bestow Power power, Metapower feat.

With Dominant Ideal (set to Time Mantle), you spend 2 PP less (minimum 1 PP) and do not expend your psionic focus when using metapsionic feats or augmentations on powers from the chosen mantle. With Substitute Powers, you can put Synchronicity into the Time mantle. Thus, you can spend 1 PP to manifest Synchronicity linked to Synchronicity, which does not cost you any actions effectively, and grants you an extra standard action in the next round. Since you haven't expended your psionic focus, you can do this again (manifesting the power using the standard action granted by the first Synchronicity) to get as many extra actions as you want in the next round at the cost of 1 PP per action.

The option for the recharge comes when you link Synchronicity to Bestow Power. For 1 PP (base 4 PP, reduced by 4 between Metapower and Dominant Ideal), you gain 2 PP next round at no effective action cost to you. Thus, the amount of PP you can have access to increases at an exponential rate, close to doubling every round. Even if your DM rules that you can't have more PP in your pool at once than your normal maximum, you can still "float" the excess PP from round to round using the automatically readied standard actions granted by a linked Synchronicity manifested from the previous round.
[/spoiler]


Add in Temporal Acceleration at level 11 and you can have truly infinite actions, instead of just (roughly) doubling every round.
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Inufandom

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2011, 04:14:04 PM »
Wow. I think that'll be fun... Oops... sorry, that was my CE self talking... I'll behave... :devil
Zhorne: Behold! The Cake of Wishing!
Camille: You know the only wish you can make on it is not to gain weight from it, right?
Zhorne: SILENCE!
Camille: Don't blame me when this plan backfires -_-;

Maat_Mons

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2011, 11:00:52 PM »
Focus on counterspells

Wouldn't it be better to ready an action to cast a damage-dealing spell?  It seems like you should be able to deal enough damage that the concentration check is impossible.  Then you've not only stopped the spell, you've hurt the caster and possibly inflicted a secondary effect, depending on the spell. 

Nytemare3701

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2011, 11:12:33 PM »
Focus on counterspells

Wouldn't it be better to ready an action to cast a damage-dealing spell?  It seems like you should be able to deal enough damage that the concentration check is impossible.  Then you've not only stopped the spell, you've hurt the caster and possibly inflicted a secondary effect, depending on the spell. 

That's a viable counterspelling tactic, yes. I was speaking generally, my apologies.

Another fun trick vs mages is to use Shalantha's Delicate Disk and toss Tenser's Transformation on it, then toss it at the mage. They transform and can no longer cast.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2011, 01:33:18 AM »
Focus on counterspells

Wouldn't it be better to ready an action to cast a damage-dealing spell?  It seems like you should be able to deal enough damage that the concentration check is impossible.  Then you've not only stopped the spell, you've hurt the caster and possibly inflicted a secondary effect, depending on the spell. 
In general, yes. However, it is easier to block/dodge/etc an attacking spell than to avoid a counterspell, and it is possible to gain the ability to counterspell as an immediate action. So a dedicated counterspeller would probably be superior at disrupting other spellcasters than one who just readies attack spells.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

zook1shoe

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2011, 02:35:29 AM »
Planar Shepherd ;)

+1 planar shepherd

I think its the Far Realm that a 1:0 time ratio, which is so much better than 10:1

Inufandom

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2011, 12:00:43 PM »
what book is the planar shepherd in?
Zhorne: Behold! The Cake of Wishing!
Camille: You know the only wish you can make on it is not to gain weight from it, right?
Zhorne: SILENCE!
Camille: Don't blame me when this plan backfires -_-;

Shiki

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2011, 12:16:58 PM »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2011, 03:16:12 AM »
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AriasDerros

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2011, 10:26:19 AM »
I second PhaedrusXY's assessment on counter-spelling (and pretty much everything else he ever says), and bring to bear that the spell duelward (Spell Compendium, P.74, sorc 5) can be put up to make your next couterspell an immediate action, and the spell battlemagic perception (Heroes of Battle, P.125, sorc 3) helps you know when spells are being cast, what spell is being cast, and can be discharged to counterspell.

Only problem is BMP being a sorc 3 spell would be hard to pick up on a bard, even with sublime cord / seeker of song builds.

That said, the first suggestion of tainted scholar is way off, the class is not as powerful as people seen to think.  Yes, you gain power from taint, but you accrue a lot of penalties, and end up making your character unplayable very quickly.  There are ways to lessen the penalties, but they all take away from the power of the scholar.  Like the popular "be a necropolitan undead, undead are immune to taints effects" is ignoring that an undead's taint scores are set to an amount, and that can not be either raised of lowered. whats more is that amount is less than you would be getting for your CHA if you didn't dip into the scholar. Of course, if I'm missing something, someone can feel free to PM me the correction.

also, to the matter of the OP, at high levels, AMF + invoke magic (9th level spell out of lords of madness) ought to truly appeal to your CE side.

Echoes

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Re: I want to destroy other spellcasters
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2011, 10:35:23 PM »
Focus on counterspells

Wouldn't it be better to ready an action to cast a damage-dealing spell?  It seems like you should be able to deal enough damage that the concentration check is impossible.  Then you've not only stopped the spell, you've hurt the caster and possibly inflicted a secondary effect, depending on the spell. 
In general, yes. However, it is easier to block/dodge/etc an attacking spell than to avoid a counterspell, and it is possible to gain the ability to counterspell as an immediate action. So a dedicated counterspeller would probably be superior at disrupting other spellcasters than one who just readies attack spells.

Eyes of the oracle is excellent for this, as it gives you a free readied action. Celerity, if allowed, also allows you to counter-cast as an immediate action if needed. My personal favorite is an orb of fire (preferably switched to something that is rarely resisted) both for the damage and the daze rider. Orb of force is also solid as virtually nothing resists it. You can also use a readied-action counterspell or counter-cast, and if that fails use an immediate action to attempt another counter, giving you two chances at disrupting their casting.

While dedicated counterspellers are likely superior in the end, that takes feat investment and specific spells and items. Counter-casting requires you to know a single spell which you would likely learn any (an orb) and gear that you'd want anyway (belt of battle). And as I pointed out, there is no reason you can't do both. If you're confident you can land the shot, counter-cast to get some damage on them. If they have an array of miss chances or you just flub the counter-cast, duelward is still there to give you your counterspell attempt.
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