Author Topic: How much would it help game balance if...  (Read 4862 times)

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: How much would it help game balance if...
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2011, 08:04:58 PM »
Great input from everyone here.

On wizards: What about lowering the spells prepared per day a little more? I really want to keep as much of it intact as possible, while still keeping wizards from being "always prepared". Maybe the correct route would be to nerf craft contingent spell...
That is one of the very few things that I just outright ban... I guess nerfing the crap out of it to only allow one per character would work, also, though.

Lowering spells per day wouldn't really affect much. Given enough foreknowledge, a wizard could still do basically anything. The problem is that their spell list is too big, and they can cast anything off of it. That and having a large number of broken spells on it...

Basically, you'd do nothing to affect their strength, while potentially creating another problem...

+1.

Also, it's FAR easier to boost Int than Cha without actually giving anything useful up.

Seriously, it's easy enough to start with an Int roll of 8 at level 1 and have 40+ by level 15.
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CantripN

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Re: How much would it help game balance if...
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2011, 08:42:19 PM »
I don't agree. I think CHA is the BEST casting stat, in that it's the easiest to raise.

WIS = Will Saves.
INT = Skill Points.
CHA = More, and Better, Spells! Plus, CHA to Saves, AC and the like REALLY easy.
Really easy if you like losing caster levels. Othewise, not so much... Also, I really like skill points. So I'm in complete agreement with Lycanthromancer. The fact that knowledgeable optimizers disagree probably tells us that both have their merits, though... and it is really a matter of personal preference.

Lycanthromancer, I'd love to know how one can get such a large score in INT, because if you can, I'd prefer it.
I love skill points. Especially in Knowledge and the synergy of having a high INT to raise it even more.

That said...

Inner Beauty (+4), Snowsong (+4), Devil's Ego (+4), Magic-Blooded [Spark] Template (+2, +0 LA), Sirine's Grace (+6 and CHA to AC), Ruin Delver's Fortune (CHA to Saves), Ghostform (CHA to AC), Ability Enhancer (Another +2 to most of the above). You can get all of that without losing single spellcasting level with a Drake Helm, a Runestaff + UMD, Anyspell (Greater/Regular) or Fiend-blooded (at least for Snowsong). Oh, and War Mage for CHA to AC to yourself +2 allies.

I still think Wizards are better. But CHA is SOMETIMES (given a high level of optimization...) better.

Ex: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7909.msg261361#msg261361
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 08:46:11 PM by CantripN »
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: How much would it help game balance if...
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2011, 08:49:21 PM »
Lycanthromancer, I'd love to know how one can get such a large score in INT, because if you can, I'd prefer it.
8 (original) + 3 (age) + 5 (level) + 6 (headband) + 5 (tome) + 22 (double-PAO into sarrukh [30 Int] as an example; there are higher Int critters out there, though) = 49.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 08:51:52 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: How much would it help game balance if...
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2011, 08:51:47 PM »
I used to be 100% pro-wizard, hated sorcerers, etc... until I actually made one, and played it. I'm actually turned around somewhat, now. With the addition of Runestaffs and other ways to add spells known, and with good spell selection in general, sorcerers certainly have their advantages. I love not having to bother with preparing spells... If you don't also need to be the party skill monkey, I might even prefer them over playing wizards now.
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Faithless tbe Wonder Boy

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Re: How much would it help game balance if...
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2011, 08:58:37 PM »
Honestly, the one sticking point between sorcerers and wizards for me is the fact that sorcerers get their spells a level later.  If you took that one fact away, I would probably play them a lot more.  Maybe I'm just impatient, but I always end up feeling like I've taken a crappy Level Adjustment...

Lycanthromancer

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Re: How much would it help game balance if...
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2011, 09:10:51 PM »
Honestly, the one sticking point between sorcerers and wizards for me is the fact that sorcerers get their spells a level later.  If you took that one fact away, I would probably play them a lot more.  Maybe I'm just impatient, but I always end up feeling like I've taken a crappy Level Adjustment...
Try psi! You'll like it.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

CantripN

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Re: How much would it help game balance if...
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2011, 09:17:49 PM »
Without Poly-Cheese, though, CHA wins the boost race. It's a shame, but INT is HARD to raise.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: How much would it help game balance if...
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2011, 09:22:31 PM »
Without Poly-Cheese, though, CHA wins the boost race. It's a shame, but INT is HARD to raise.
All's fair in cheese and war.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: How much would it help game balance if...
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2011, 09:24:06 PM »
Honestly, the one sticking point between sorcerers and wizards for me is the fact that sorcerers get their spells a level later.  If you took that one fact away, I would probably play them a lot more.  Maybe I'm just impatient, but I always end up feeling like I've taken a crappy Level Adjustment...
Yeah... being able to actually use the dragonwrought kobold cheese definitely helped my opinion of them. :P
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Sorator

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Re: How much would it help game balance if...
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2011, 11:12:10 PM »
Quote
8 (original) + 3 (age) + 5 (level) + 6 (headband) + 5 (tome) + 22 (double-PAO into sarrukh [30 Int] as an example; there are higher Int critters out there, though) = 49.
I feel the need to point out that the only thing on this list that can't necessarily be done for Cha is PAO, and that depends on what options you have available for PAO... I'm sure you can find something with exceedingly high Cha as well.