Author Topic: Is some restructuring needed?  (Read 5828 times)

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Suzerain

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2011, 09:17:02 AM »
I'm of a mind set to say that Min/Max should EAT deliberations, as the bulk of deliberations occur on the min/max boards.

Personally, I agree. It might lead to people actually posting deliberations, and in the right place at that.


On the other hand,
I think shifting the bulk of min/max discussions to D&DD would mainly be a disservice to those who use D&DD.  The rules discussions on min/max tend to be of a very specific sort that's largely useful only to those who are interested in hardcore rules parsing for the sake of optimization--which isn't everybody.  There needs to be a place where people can engage in rules discussions that AREN'T focused on hardcore optimization, without having to sift through the CharOp threads to find the threads they want.

What exactly are the types of rules discussions that can be thought of?

1. How does it work? That's a RAW question.
2. How was it intended to work? That's a RAI discussion.
3. What approach would be more fun/balanced? Definitely a deliberation, but see 4.
4. How can I make a house rule so it works the way I want it? Technically, this discussion should probably go into H&H; in practice, it's probably found on D&DD.
Maybe there's more.


What types of rules discussions do you want going on in D&DD (and should they be excluded from Min/Max)?

veekie

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2011, 11:13:18 AM »
Call me crazy, but what will be gained by splintering DD&D off of Min/Max?

Moving/smiting folks who post any old thing to Min/Max It because they know that's the most high-traffic board instead of posting it where it belongs?

I follow that.  I just don't know why that needs to happen.  Theoretically you would do that if the forum moved "too fast" or had too much stuff in it or something.  Is that the problem?  As is, I just ignore all of Endaire's threads and it works out fine.
Actually, its doing those threads a disservice, while Min-max is high population, most people going to Min-max isn't looking for those kinds of threads to post in, while in Deliberations it'd at least be considered as it should be.

Its very easy for Min-Max to push any deliberations off the front page in short order see.
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Nick

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2011, 02:07:13 PM »
I second keeping Deliberations apart from Min/Max since you see more work getting done on Min/Max and Deliberations has more "what ifs" floating about. Merging them means overwhelming either side as they struggle to stay on the first half of the first page.
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veekie

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2011, 07:37:51 PM »
Regarding the Min-Max/Deliberations issue I can see the following options then:

1)
Min-Max soley for the use of actual optimization. Things that fall into it includes builds, build requests, character/build advice(includes spell, feats, skills, races, equipment what have you), and discussions on optimizing builds/game mechanics. Simple Question thread remains as a specific exception, due to the required traffic volume.
Gameology covers GM advice and GM level things. Include game ideas and campaign settings(at least where they don't require extensive house rules).
House Rules covers new game material, whether rules, creatures, classes or whatever, as well as discussions on those areas.
Deliberations covers general discussions that don't fall under one of the above.
-This is basically the present state, with clarifications of role. No restructuring needed, though mods would want to move things like Endaire's threads where they belong proper.

2) Combine House Rules with Gameology. The rationale is a lot of these overlap. Both are largely GM side materials. On the plus side, theres no longer a conflict of where to place campaign settings. On the minus rules material are going to get mixed up with theorycrafting.

3) Combine Deliberations with Gameology. Don't differentiate between player-side and GM-side materials. Advantage is that most of these discussions are very very similar no matter what side of the table you're on and both are low traffic enough that there wouldn't be a big conflict of interest

4) Combine MinMax with Deliberations/Gameology. Its all D&D discussions, merge them all. Advantage is one less board to check for those frequenting MinMax. Disadvantage is that MinMax traffic would very swiftly drive those threads into oblivion as they ram up against the 10 new threads each day(though granted, asking similar things for the most part).

I can see some perks to 1+3, but favor the status quo(that is, 1) with clarifications. Most members post everything in the right places anyway, except for a few persistent offenders(and THAT generally annoys minmax when irrelevant stuff gets lumped in).
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 07:42:03 PM by veekie »
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

ImperatorK

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2011, 08:39:59 PM »
One suggestion: Mods could sticky the most recent "Simple Answers" thread until it reaches 50 pages, then un-sticky it and sticky the new one.
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Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

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Prime32

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2011, 09:15:32 PM »
Good idea. Done.

To veekie, I'd prefer option 3. Maybe there should be a sticky in New Users clarifying which threads go where?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 09:19:46 PM by Prime32 »
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2011, 09:23:06 PM »
Regarding the Min-Max/Deliberations issue I can see the following options then:

1)
Min-Max soley for the use of actual optimization. Things that fall into it includes builds, build requests, character/build advice(includes spell, feats, skills, races, equipment what have you), and discussions on optimizing builds/game mechanics. Simple Question thread remains as a specific exception, due to the required traffic volume.
Gameology covers GM advice and GM level things. Include game ideas and campaign settings(at least where they don't require extensive house rules).
House Rules covers new game material, whether rules, creatures, classes or whatever, as well as discussions on those areas.
Deliberations covers general discussions that don't fall under one of the above.
-This is basically the present state, with clarifications of role. No restructuring needed, though mods would want to move things like Endaire's threads where they belong proper.
I like this. The structure we have right now is pretty good. It just needs to be clarified and/or enforced.

Quote
2) Combine House Rules with Gameology. The rationale is a lot of these overlap. Both are largely GM side materials. On the plus side, theres no longer a conflict of where to place campaign settings. On the minus rules material are going to get mixed up with theorycrafting.
This might not be a bad idea IF (and only if) House rules is in its own subforum.

Quote
3) Combine Deliberations with Gameology. Don't differentiate between player-side and GM-side materials. Advantage is that most of these discussions are very very similar no matter what side of the table you're on and both are low traffic enough that there wouldn't be a big conflict of interest
Yuck... I think they are quite different...

Quote
4) Combine MinMax with Deliberations/Gameology. Its all D&D discussions, merge them all. Advantage is one less board to check for those frequenting MinMax. Disadvantage is that MinMax traffic would very swiftly drive those threads into oblivion as they ram up against the 10 new threads each day(though granted, asking similar things for the most part).
Well hell... if you're going to do that, why have subforums at all? Let's just throw everything into a big pot, and use search to find things. (I think this is a terrible idea...)
[spoiler]
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Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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veekie

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2011, 09:55:58 PM »
Well, some guys are arguing for it, I just listed out the options people seemed interested in.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2011, 10:12:48 PM »
Well, some guys are arguing for it, I just listed out the options people seemed interested in.
I know. Just adding my 2 cp.  ;)
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Redeemer of Ogar

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2011, 05:44:58 PM »
Quote
4) Combine MinMax with Deliberations/Gameology. Its all D&D discussions, merge them all. Advantage is one less board to check for those frequenting MinMax. Disadvantage is that MinMax traffic would very swiftly drive those threads into oblivion as they ram up against the 10 new threads each day(though granted, asking similar things for the most part).
Well hell... if you're going to do that, why have subforums at all? Let's just throw everything into a big pot, and use search to find things. (I think this is a terrible idea...)

Agreed that it is a terrible idea.

FWIW, I don't go to MinMax to find out how to play. I go there to find out how to play BETTER.

The_Laughing_Man

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2011, 07:54:56 AM »
I have always wondered why there is not Handbooks subforum for GM Gameology.

I know that GM's could use some help too. The Minmax handbooks are quite player oriented.