Author Topic: Is some restructuring needed?  (Read 5624 times)

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Prime32

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Is some restructuring needed?
« on: August 11, 2011, 12:14:35 AM »
Some thoughts on improving board structure:
  • Add subforums to Homebrew for completed works and constantly-expanding compendiums, one for each system (mainly 3.5, PF, 4e). You use the root Homebrew board for random stuff, and there's a sticky to request threads be moved (or you can just repost). Currently it's a little intimidating to non-3.5ers, and hard to find the cool stuff amidst the half-ideas.
  • Give the Handbooks board a better description. I'm open to suggestions.
  • Is 4e Optimisation in the best place right now, or would it be better as a sub-board of Min/Max It? The 4e handbooks could use a section, few as they are, which could be a sub-board of the existing Handbooks.
  • D&D Deliberations has overlap with Min/Max It. Both are used for general rule discussions, but the latter is also used for build requests. I'd say restrict Min/Max It to build requests and move the rest to D&DD, but I might be torn apart by an angry mob. :p

Any more ideas, traffic analysis, insults?
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 12:24:49 AM »
Quote
Add subforums to Homebrew for completed works and constantly-expanding compendiums, one for each system (mainly 3.5, PF, 4e). You use the root Homebrew board for random stuff, and there's a sticky to request threads be moved (or you can just repost). Currently it's a little intimidating to non-3.5ers, and hard to find the cool stuff amidst the half-ideas.
Personally, I think just one master subforum for completed works would do. In the most common homebrews of 3.5 and PF, they are interchangable for the most part, and most material does have labeling of their editions. It does help keep the completed works apart from the Work In Progress(circa 2008) stuff.
Quote
Give the Handbooks board a better description. I'm open to suggestions.
Handbooks, Guides, Char Opt Resources...The more accurate term doesn't seem to describe it quite as effectively I think.
Quote
D&D Deliberations has overlap with Min/Max It. Both are used for general rule discussions, but the latter is also used for build requests. I'd say restrict Min/Max It to build requests and move the rest to D&DD, but I might be torn apart by an angry mob.
Minmax is appropriate for discussing how to make use of particular rules in an optimization sense, while Deliberations is used more for general discussions. I think the particular specialization here is probably due to the CO roots, if its to do with optimizing a concept it goes in Min-Max, if not, to Deliberations.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 12:32:16 AM by veekie »
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I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

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Prime32

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 12:48:39 AM »
Quote
Give the Handbooks board a better description. I'm open to suggestions.
Handbooks, Guides, Char Opt Resources...The more accurate term doesn't seem to describe it quite as effectively I think.
Less the name, more "A compilation of handbooks" isn't very informative.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Solo

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2011, 01:02:37 AM »
A board that is accessable to everyone who is not "Giacomo".

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The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

veekie

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2011, 01:05:03 AM »
Ah, in that case a fuller description might help.
"A place for optimization guides and resources of all sorts"?
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2011, 04:28:12 AM »
I'd say restrict Min/Max It to build requests and move the rest to D&DD, but I might be torn apart by an angry mob. :p

Endarire would finally be posting things in the right forum if we enforced that one.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2011, 08:37:16 AM »
I'd say restrict Min/Max It to build requests and move the rest to D&DD, but I might be torn apart by an angry mob. :p

Endarire would finally be posting things in the right forum if we enforced that one.
Good point.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

weenog

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2011, 10:36:51 PM »
  • D&D Deliberations has overlap with Min/Max It. Both are used for general rule discussions, but the latter is also used for build requests. I'd say restrict Min/Max It to build requests and move the rest to D&DD, but I might be torn apart by an angry mob. :p

I like this, but with an exception: I think the Ask A Simple Question series of threads should remain on Min/Max It.  There is plenty of stuff where people are looking to get the most out of the resources they have available, not just wanting to talk shop, but revising a build or build stub is beyond the scale of the help they need and the effort they want to invest.
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Prime32

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2011, 10:51:15 PM »
  • D&D Deliberations has overlap with Min/Max It. Both are used for general rule discussions, but the latter is also used for build requests. I'd say restrict Min/Max It to build requests and move the rest to D&DD, but I might be torn apart by an angry mob. :p

I like this, but with an exception: I think the Ask A Simple Question series of threads should remain on Min/Max It.  There is plenty of stuff where people are looking to get the most out of the resources they have available, not just wanting to talk shop, but revising a build or build stub is beyond the scale of the help they need and the effort they want to invest.
Sub-board for those threads (including PF/whatever versions), so they can be found easily?
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

weenog

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2011, 10:56:05 PM »
Maybe, but Min/Max It implies general optimization, not just builds.  Maybe make Min/Max It a category like General Gab or the Think Tank, and have the restricted builds-only board be one board in the MMI category.
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Sobolev

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2011, 10:59:08 PM »
Call me crazy, but what will be gained by splintering DD&D off of Min/Max?
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Quote from: Negative Zero on November 04, 2009, 02:16:14 AM
In my humble opinion, CO is haberdashery. Some say we're mad, but we can all agree we're hatters. Yes, we have potential to make very sophisticated hats, very fancy hats, be they dark or light. But the truth is that the color of the hat does not come from the group of us - our community doesn't directly produce hats. We simply give average head circumferences, list current fashion trends, and point out some shiny, obscure baubles to add to the latest hat line.

weenog

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2011, 11:01:34 PM »
Call me crazy, but what will be gained by splintering DD&D off of Min/Max?

Moving/smiting folks who post any old thing to Min/Max It because they know that's the most high-traffic board instead of posting it where it belongs?
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Sobolev

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2011, 11:04:54 PM »
Call me crazy, but what will be gained by splintering DD&D off of Min/Max?

Moving/smiting folks who post any old thing to Min/Max It because they know that's the most high-traffic board instead of posting it where it belongs?

I follow that.  I just don't know why that needs to happen.  Theoretically you would do that if the forum moved "too fast" or had too much stuff in it or something.  Is that the problem?  As is, I just ignore all of Endaire's threads and it works out fine.
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Quote from: Negative Zero on November 04, 2009, 02:16:14 AM
In my humble opinion, CO is haberdashery. Some say we're mad, but we can all agree we're hatters. Yes, we have potential to make very sophisticated hats, very fancy hats, be they dark or light. But the truth is that the color of the hat does not come from the group of us - our community doesn't directly produce hats. We simply give average head circumferences, list current fashion trends, and point out some shiny, obscure baubles to add to the latest hat line.

jojolagger

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2011, 11:39:28 PM »
  • Add subforums to Homebrew for completed works and constantly-expanding compendiums, one for each system (mainly 3.5, PF, 4e). You use the root Homebrew board for random stuff, and there's a sticky to request threads be moved (or you can just repost). Currently it's a little intimidating to non-3.5ers, and hard to find the cool stuff amidst the half-ideas.
Complete/In progress division seems good, but will need a mod/admin to move completed work. But System division doesn't seem so good. Too many sub divisions is bad, and putting [3.5] [PF] or [4e] into the title is easy.

  • Give the Handbooks board a better description. I'm open to suggestions.
"A collection of Min/Max how to guides."

  • Is 4e Optimisation in the best place right now, or would it be better as a sub-board of Min/Max It? The 4e handbooks could use a section, few as they are, which could be a sub-board of the existing Handbooks.
Many Min/Max people are attached to 3.5. Unless 4e is given sub forums in a lot of places, keep it where it is.

  • D&D Deliberations has overlap with Min/Max It. Both are used for general rule discussions, but the latter is also used for build requests. I'd say restrict Min/Max It to build requests and move the rest to D&DD, but I might be torn apart by an angry mob. :p
Restricting Min/Max to Build requests would get you torn apart by an angry mob.
Just make the difference known.
"How does this rule work? What are the ramifications?" Goes in D&DD
"This rules seems to work this way, how can we (ab)use this for fun and profit?" goes in Min/Max.
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altpersona

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2011, 11:42:07 PM »
new is not always better

old is usually easiest to manage

my 2c, dont fix things that arent broken. broken being defined as 'a significant problem'


to address the four initial points

a. homebrew sections : one for PEACH (debate n feedback) another for 'Handbooks' (completed, stfu dont criticize me!)

b. what part of Handbook dont people understand? no change

c. 4e, i dont read them much, but it should basically mirror the 3x boards not so much be integrated with them.

d. deliberations, i thought the intent of delib was theoretical debate and the min/max for practicum. if we were a moderated board, this would be the spot for it, but were not...
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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2011, 12:24:02 AM »
I'm of a mind set to say that Min/Max should EAT deliberations, as the bulk of deliberations occur on the min/max boards.
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Sobolev

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2011, 01:59:44 AM »
I'm of a mind set to say that Min/Max should EAT deliberations, as the bulk of deliberations occur on the min/max boards.


I think that was basically what I was suggesting as well.
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Quote from: Negative Zero on November 04, 2009, 02:16:14 AM
In my humble opinion, CO is haberdashery. Some say we're mad, but we can all agree we're hatters. Yes, we have potential to make very sophisticated hats, very fancy hats, be they dark or light. But the truth is that the color of the hat does not come from the group of us - our community doesn't directly produce hats. We simply give average head circumferences, list current fashion trends, and point out some shiny, obscure baubles to add to the latest hat line.

Caelic

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2011, 06:31:08 AM »
I think shifting the bulk of min/max discussions to D&DD would mainly be a disservice to those who use D&DD.  The rules discussions on min/max tend to be of a very specific sort that's largely useful only to those who are interested in hardcore rules parsing for the sake of optimization--which isn't everybody.  There needs to be a place where people can engage in rules discussions that AREN'T focused on hardcore optimization, without having to sift through the CharOp threads to find the threads they want.

Havok4

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2011, 06:52:52 AM »
I'm of a mind set to say that Min/Max should EAT deliberations, as the bulk of deliberations occur on the min/max boards.


I think that was basically what I was suggesting as well.

I also agree with this in some respects as the distinction between optimization discussion and general rules discussion is hard to make for some questions. But if the descriptions were made clear enough I think enforcing the separation more would work as well.  Really no preference from me either way, just make it clear how things work.

On the homebrew section I agree think a section for finalized works is a great idea.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Is some restructuring needed?
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2011, 06:55:56 AM »
I feel that, at the most, D&D Deliberations should be a subforum of either GM Gameology or Min/Max It.


[spoiler][/spoiler]