Leveling for things with too many RHD.

[SolEiji]

As a thought experiement I'm working on I'm faced with a LA 0 but high RHD homebrew creature (8 levels) who I wish to plan out the rest of a build for.  Its saves are alright, it's hp and defensive abilities are great, but it's BAB is in the crapper which makes the obvious choice of initiator classes less appealing.  Thus I turn to you in possible builds I could make for such a creature.  My limitations are they it's probably TN for sure, and if not that, "non evil" which makes Ur-Priest tough to pull off.  And most caster classes would abhor the 8 levels lost.  Con should be very high, so breath weapons are an option but, again, the breath weapon is likely to be very low if its based on class levels.

Any ideas?  I'm pretty open to what build it might be, I'm more curious as to what CAN work on such a being?

[JaronK]

Bard 1/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso +8?

JaronK

[ImperatorK]

Bard 1/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso +8?

JaronK

And how do you meet the spell level requirement of Sublime Chord?

[SolEiji]

Does that even qualify?  You need 3rd level spells for sublime chord.

Oops, what he said. 

[JaronK]

Bah, right, somehow thought it only required skill ranks.

...but the HD should help with initiator levels (you'd get 4, I believe) so why not just rock out as a Crusader or something?

JaronK

[SolEiji]

Cause my BAB is in the toilet.  It's possible, but I'm certain there's something more effective.  I actually like the sublime bard thing if I could qualify.... hmmm...  spell-like abilities do NOT count as spells right?  I know getting a 2nd level spell with Precoious Apprentice, is there some way to get a third level spell?  My memory is fuzzy with some obscure rules... Sanctum Spell or Earth spell or some other crazy early qualification nonsense.

[Lycanthromancer]

Cause my BAB is in the toilet.  It's possible, but I'm certain there's something more effective.  I actually like the sublime bard thing if I could qualify.... hmmm...  spell-like abilities do NOT count as spells right?  I know getting a 2nd level spell with Precoious Apprentice, is there some way to get a third level spell?  My memory is fuzzy with some obscure rules... Sanctum Spell or Earth spell or some other crazy early qualification nonsense.

Grabbing a medium BAB through an a weapon enhancement might be the way to go here; a mouthpick weapon, if need be, or a tail-club. Then take some initiator levels. A medium BAB is only 2 lower than full BAB at level 8, so you should be alright.

[weenog]

If your job is to stand there and get the shit beat out of you, you can do a lot of damage via counterattacking.  Robilar's Gambit is less expensive and works even if you've got a miss chance or something protecting you, but if you can't afford the BAB, you can use Karmic Strike to still get a lot of attacks in.  Crusader might still be a good idea, possibly with a fighter dip to help with the feat burden.

[Lycanthromancer]

If you've got a high Strength, how about a tripper build? Touch attack, then an attack at +4 against a prone target.

[Littha]

What type is this creature if it gets crappy BAB off of 8 RHD? quite a lot of types have medium/full base attack bonuses...
I can only assume Fey/Undead because all the other types have 3/4 or full BAB

[SolEiji]

It's homebrew.  The thing isn't likely to be played but is more of a thought experiment while testing the viability of the concept (it may show up as an actual build in a related thing though).  I totally forgot about skillful weapons, that would solve my problem.  Initiators are now viable again, thank you!

[Lycanthromancer]

Could you give us the details on the race? Maybe it has something we could use beyond skillful weapon + initiator class.

[SolEiji]

Sure (though I am being purposefully vague as I'm keeping details away from people who do haunt these boards).

Poor BAB, d10, all good saves, scaling DR/- and all energy resistances, and either 2 or 4+Int skills (still hashing that out, mostly unimportant).
This more specific example also has regeneration (bypassed by magic weapons), improved uncanny dodge, improved evasion, can't be flanked, spell resistance, managed to grab effectively both slight and powerful build at the same time (long story) and has disguise self at will.  Immune to disease, fatigue, death by massive damage, exhaustion, poison, and energy drain.  Oh yeah and a fluffy scaling standard action touch attack for damage, 1d6 per 2 HD.  And a slam attack, 1d6+Str.

Is that enough to work with?

[Lycanthromancer]

Sure (though I am being purposefully vague as I'm keeping details away from people who do haunt these boards).

Poor BAB, d10, all good saves, scaling DR/- and all energy resistances, and either 2 or 4+Int skills (still hashing that out, mostly unimportant).
This more specific example also has regeneration (bypassed by magic weapons), improved uncanny dodge, improved evasion, can't be flanked, spell resistance, managed to grab effectively both slight and powerful build at the same time (long story) and has disguise self at will.  Immune to disease, fatigue, death by massive damage, exhaustion, poison, and energy drain.  Oh yeah and a fluffy scaling standard action touch attack for damage, 1d6 per 2 HD.  And a slam attack, 1d6+Str.

Is that enough to work with?

I don't know what size category s/he/it is, but some psychic warrior or war mind would be useful, since it gets access to both Expansion and Compression.

[SolEiji]

With a right choice of feats, stocking up on natural weapons, and a necklace of natural attacks with skilled on it to fix the BAB, it's turned out well.  I went the Warmind route suggested and my offense turned decent.

Just wanted to thank everyone for the suggestions.  Now on to test the idea...