Author Topic: Stabby sneak monsters...  (Read 1726 times)

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Cephid Arcanis

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Stabby sneak monsters...
« on: July 29, 2011, 02:52:14 AM »
Ok I need some monsters that are stealth and attack with melee or close range with abilities.
I want their attacks to be improved by their stealth. (sneak attack would be a perfect example)

I'll be converting them to Tyranids for my campaign.

So what is out there? I can't seem to find many.

Any and all ideas appreciated.
Thanks
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Cephid Arcanis

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Re: Stabby sneak monsters...
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2011, 03:03:47 AM »
oh, yeah. Around CR: 8-16.
Either in large groups to flank or solo critters.
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wotmaniac

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Re: Stabby sneak monsters...
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2011, 03:06:21 AM »
one of my favorites is that assassin devil in FC2.
proof that all you need to take anyone out is "5 guys with baseball bats" (so to speak).

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

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SorO_Lost

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Re: Stabby sneak monsters...
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2011, 03:12:04 AM »
There is dozens of "sneaky" monsters (Chokers, Leonels, pixies, invisible stalkers, most Demons have hide ranks, etc.), many of which use "shady" tactics (Shadow's in-ground-move-attack-move-back-to-ground-haha-can't-attack-me), but I really can't think of any that out right gain a bonus if the opponent is Flat-Footed or w/e. Well, there is an Epic monster I know of...

Most monsters have loot, give them a SA granting item.
DM edit in Sneak Attack to the creature.
Or, "Tyranids" are DarkToM HellbredFCII Beguilers and/or Shadow Hand specialized Swordsages, renamed and reflavored of course.

One of their champions can be a Hellbred Carmendine Dark Moon Disciple Monk 7 / Unarmed Swordsage X, they get Total-Concealment only bypassed by Blindsight-like effects and THE SUN.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
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Cephid Arcanis

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Re: Stabby sneak monsters...
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2011, 03:21:29 AM »
one of my favorites is that assassin devil in FC2.
proof that all you need to take anyone out is "5 guys with baseball bats" (so to speak).

Sounds interesting. Whats FC2? (I googled it and it told me it was a female comdom...)

There is dozens of "sneaky" monsters (Chokers, Leonels, pixies, invisible stalkers, most Demons have hide ranks, etc.), many of which use "shady" tactics (Shadow's in-ground-move-attack-move-back-to-ground-haha-can't-attack-me), but I really can't think of any that out right gain a bonus if the opponent is Flat-Footed or w/e. Well, there is an Epic monster I know of...

Most monsters have loot, give them a SA granting item.
DM edit in Sneak Attack to the creature.
Or, "Tyranids" are DarkToM HellbredFCII Beguilers and/or Shadow Hand specialized Swordsages, renamed and reflavored of course.

One of their champions can be a Hellbred Carmendine Dark Moon Disciple Monk 7 / Unarmed Swordsage X, they get Total-Concealment only bypassed by Blindsight-like effects and THE SUN.

Lots of interesting ideas there. Is it ok (CR wise etc.) to give class levels to pretty much anything? Cause sword sage and rogue levels could be a simple fix on the right base.
Also, would a choker/rogue deal sneak attack damage with constrict?

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wotmaniac

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Re: Stabby sneak monsters...
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2011, 03:41:02 AM »
FC2 = Fiendish Codex 2: Tyrants of the Nine Hells

If you don't have that book, then here's a complete write-up.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 03:42:56 AM by wotmaniac »

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Stabby sneak monsters...
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2011, 03:41:44 AM »
Lots of interesting ideas there. Is it ok (CR wise etc.) to give class levels to pretty much anything? Cause sword sage and rogue levels could be a simple fix on the right base.
Of course it is.

Quote
Also, would a choker/rogue deal sneak attack damage with constrict?
If his opponent was flat-footed somehow, yes. Otherwise, no. In other words: it wouldn't get any special ability to sneak attack via that attack form. It would have to qualify just like with any other attack, and since you don't threaten while grappling, you also can't flank. So the only way to SA would be to attack a flat-footed enemy, or via an attack/ability that specifically allows you to add SA dice to grapple damage.

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Maat_Mons

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Re: Stabby sneak monsters...
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2011, 03:42:22 AM »
For monsters with built in sneak attack, there are babau, derro, and marrulurk (Sandstorm).  

Cephid Arcanis

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Re: Stabby sneak monsters...
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2011, 04:56:22 AM »
That Assassin Devil is perfect. It's got everything it needs, even fog + blindsight combo. That'll probably kill a PC when I bring him in. I'll do it in the middle of a fight.

Lots of interesting ideas there. Is it ok (CR wise etc.) to give class levels to pretty much anything? Cause sword sage and rogue levels could be a simple fix on the right base.
Of course it is.

Quote
Also, would a choker/rogue deal sneak attack damage with constrict?
If his opponent was flat-footed somehow, yes. Otherwise, no. In other words: it wouldn't get any special ability to sneak attack via that attack form. It would have to qualify just like with any other attack, and since you don't threaten while grappling, you also can't flank. So the only way to SA would be to attack a flat-footed enemy, or via an attack/ability that specifically allows you to add SA dice to grapple damage.

Thanks Phaedrus, very clear.
So as long as I don't give them NPC treasure I can give class levels to anything without "advancement: by class" and just add the class levels as CR.

As fairness and CR goes, do you think it's ok to swap a spell-like ability for another one of the same level?
I'm using demons as the basis for several species and wanted to swap 'humanoid' type abilities for spells that buff their companions. So like Tyranid, when there is a synapse creature around the others get much stronger.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 05:01:19 AM by Cephid Arcanis »
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Suin Bahhar

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Re: Stabby sneak monsters...
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2011, 11:34:07 AM »
The Kruthik monster in the Miniatures Handbook resemble speedy xenomorph- or tyranid-like monsters from the get go. To change their usual swarm tactics into ambush ones add some levels in a rogueish class to them.

For example: unmodified kruthik resemble termagaunts, while those with levels in scout the hormagaunts.
Adding psion, psychic warrior or lurk levels to greater kruthik could also help create the fearsome tyranid warriors.

Genestealers I'd make using a template. Purestrain Genestealers would have something that gives a carapace (+4 na and +4 Str and Con), more speed (+20 ft landbased movement and +4 Dex) and an extra set of arms (including a +2d6 possibly sneak attack and claw attacks for their size). They'd lose their ability to speak and manipulate most tools (-2 Int and lose all weapon proficiencies).

But this would all require a tad too much work, nay? I think the OP is aiming at a quick and fast solution to drop them in game so I'll hush now.

Risada

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Re: Stabby sneak monsters...
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2011, 11:49:13 AM »
Witchknives (MM3) are quite good - nice stats for very low CR, with 2d6 sneak attack, among other goods. Add rogue/assassin levels as needed... and remember you can dip Swordsage 2 to get Assassin's Stance, and spend one feat to get Shadow Blade...


gorfnad

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Re: Stabby sneak monsters...
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2011, 06:04:45 AM »
Dark Creepers, Dark Stalkers, and Shadar-Kai from Fiend Folio would also somewhat fit what you're looking for.