Author Topic: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?  (Read 5750 times)

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charleskoz

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2011, 05:26:35 PM »
Shaper? Hmm. Yeah, choosing the discipline was going to be the next issue if I went with psion. Was thinking more kineticist since the point is blasting, but I guess there's lots of blasting even without domain powers. Have to review the lists I guess.

My last char was a cleric who summoned a lot so not sure I want to do that again. :)

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2011, 08:21:04 PM »
Well, you always ave the option of online variations such as http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm

Take a look at the Druid's spell list before deciding whether it's better or worse than an arcane caster.  Despite the different ways of casting, there are a lot of overlaps.  Druids, Clerics, and Wizards are Tier 1 for a reason.

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2011, 09:35:26 PM »
You could always be an Archivist/Beguiler and learn any spell you want... From any class (just need a very lenient DM).

Or even better, be also a Hathran and get and Acorn of Far Travel, now you can spontaneously cast any spell you want.

charleskoz

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2011, 10:13:35 PM »
I know druids are great, it's just not the style I'm looking for in this character.

I'm pretty sure I will go either psion or erudite on one side, and beguiler/scout/ranger on the other. I'm unclear more on the second side than the first.

I can't play a StP erudite, and my DM has agreed to a "compromise" interpretation where I get a number of unique powers equal to my class level (so, better than UP/day but worse than UP/spell level/day). I'm not sure if the erudite will really be better than a psion though... especially since he's not a big psionics person and so I wonder about opportunities to learn new powers, especially discipline powers.

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2011, 10:22:40 PM »
In that case, ask him if he'd ok a psionic version of Collegiate Wizard for psions.  It would add two (I think) powers learned per level, or even if you dropped it down to one, that's 20 more powers known.  If he keeps it at 40, all the better.  Homebrew, but he seems amicable to house rules that seem reasonable, so worth a shot IMO.
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charleskoz

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2011, 10:43:11 PM »
Good idea, thanks.. though I think he is starting to think I'm "pushing the envelope" a bit already. :) Also not sure how this would fit with learning discipline powers.. his view is that those are discipline-specific for a reason and should be hard to get, and I think that's reasonable. I am not really sure the Erudite's advantages warrant giving up something like Astral Construct if there's no other way for me to get it...

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2011, 11:34:47 PM »
If you don't think you'll have the opportunity to learn psionic powers, and don't want to spend all the XP involved in using the Craft-Power-Stones-Then-Psychic-Reformation-Them-Out-For-New-Ones (or you think your DM would throw a fit), then definitely go with a regular psion.
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charleskoz

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2011, 10:24:57 AM »
I talked with my DM about the erudite and the issue of adding powers and also Collegiate Wizard feat. I proposed an idea, and we negotiated and came up with something I think makes sense.

The feat makes sense because it makes both of our lives easier... he doesn't have to worry about inserting powers for me to find, nor worrying about which ones make sense and are appropriately powered. I will get 4 per level instead of 2. As for discipline powers, we agreed on 1 power per power level from a discipline list... so I can choose a total of 9, one at each discipline power level. The only exception is that I can't take Astral Construct at level 1, because he thinks that allowing that would cheapen the Shaper class to the point of uselessness, and I tend to agree. He's told me he'll make it available to me in some other form later on.

This Erudite variety essentially gives up its bonus feat at level 1 because I'd have to use it on this. So I would be taking it for the flexibility over the psion, if I did that. I think I like it though.

Zoblefu

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2011, 01:36:18 PM »
Maybe it's not uber optimized, but what about just doing a swift hunter // wizard combo?

Such as...
Scout3/Ranger17
Wizard X / Wizard PrCs (20-X)
Taking swift hunter, improved skirmish, favored enemy arcane/undead/construct/elementals, grab quicken spell metamagic and the rest are open for either ranged combat feats or caster feats.  You'll need to be human or something with favored class ranger -- you can always use extra feat and skills from human.

You can either also have a lot of ranger spells, or give them up with an alternate class feature and get more feats if they're needed.  (Ranger spells are possibly better to have, but with already having full wizard spell list you may find the feats preferable... I think you get 3 bonus feats if you give up spells... I'd have to look up the ACF)

Then you focus on being ranged, you only miss out on one BAB, you have the skills of the scout and ranger for traps/locks/etc, plenty of skill points as you'll only need high dex and int...

Super survivability because you are constantly moving, you're at range, and have a full compliment of wizard buffs to help keep you alive.  You get mostly ranger hitpoints which is pretty great for someone not right up in melee.  

If you rely on the swift hunter side for damage you may need to find a few ways to move 20 feet as a swift action (quickened dimension hop would work, there is a chronocharm that lets you do it once a day, travel devotion feat will let you do it for 1 combat a day, etc).... but you can just use that when you don't want to cast a spell.... you have full wizard casting progression on the other side that you can use to disable or destroy your opponents...
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 01:38:05 PM by Zoblefu »

Rebel7284

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2011, 01:49:48 PM »
Why do you want to blast? Are you aware that blasting is considered by far the weakest thing a caster can do?

Enlarge Person will very often do more damage than Fireball and Glitterdust will generally do a LOT more all from lower level slots.

Edit: it's fine if it's the flavor you're trying to go with, just want to make sure you're aware that you will have to work harder this way to achieve the same level of optimization.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 01:55:19 PM by Rebel7284 »
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charleskoz

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2011, 10:35:11 PM »
Blasting is fun. :) I won't do it exclusively, but I need to be able to do it at least some of the time -- no other character can.

Gestalting with a beguiler (most likely option) really makes for a lot of flexibility in the non-blasting spellcasting area.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2011, 11:02:06 PM »
If going psionics, the anarchic initiate PrC is the best you can get, since chaotic surge stacks with Empower Power (but doesn't always stack with Maximize Power).

[edit] I also suggest taking Metapower + Empower Power + whatever direct damage power you choose. Also note that multiples of the same metapsionic feats stack (except Maximize Power, for obvious reasons). A Metapower'd Empowered Empowered Chaotic Surged Swarm of Crystals would be one hell of a blast that's virtually impossible to protect against (aside from insane hardness and piercing immunity).
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 11:06:12 PM by Lycanthromancer »
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Unbeliever

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2011, 11:46:47 AM »
Maybe it's not uber optimized, but what about just doing a swift hunter // wizard combo?

Such as...
Scout3/Ranger17
Wizard X / Wizard PrCs (20-X)
Taking swift hunter, improved skirmish, favored enemy arcane/undead/construct/elementals, grab quicken spell metamagic and the rest are open for either ranged combat feats or caster feats.  You'll need to be human or something with favored class ranger -- you can always use extra feat and skills from human.
This is a pretty good idea for the OP's goal.  I don't even think you need to move as a swift action, or at least not all that often.  You'll just move and cast a spell.  I would probably aim to get Flyby Attack.  There's also that Draconic Claw feat that can get you another attack as a swift action (2 w/ snap kick?), and there are also spells that conveniently target lots of people or have lots of blasts, all that require attack rolls, (Scorching Ray, Sculpted Whirling Blade, etc.), as well as those that give you free attacks (Cloud or Knives, any others?). 

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2011, 09:41:31 PM »
Why isn't the warlock being considered for this character? Wasn't that class made for blasting?

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2011, 09:58:45 PM »
Why isn't the warlock being considered for this character? Wasn't that class made for blasting?
It's a pretty bad blaster. It deals less damage on a full attack than a rogue makes on one sneak attack, and the rogue can perform a full attack with it.

Better to blast with something that makes its actions count. Though a well-optimized warlock CAN actually do something worthwhile, if you try hard.

If you really wanna blast without expending tons of resources, a (heart) dragonborn psion (preferably dwarf or warforged) can use the Gemstone Breath power in Races of the Dragon. Note that as a dragonborn you can grab lots of breath weapon feats, and as a psion you can get metapsionic feats. Both work on the breath weapon granted by Gemstone Breath (and boosting your ML works REALLY well here).

Then, once you hit level 13, you can take the Energy Conversion power, which allows you to blast for a few hours with very few pp. Use psi-based action economy breakers and properly positioned metapsionic feats, ML-boosters, and similar to boost your damage really high.
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Unbeliever

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2011, 10:19:35 PM »
...
If you really wanna blast without expending tons of resources, a (heart) dragonborn psion (preferably dwarf or warforged) can use the Gemstone Breath power in Races of the Dragon. Note that as a dragonborn you can grab lots of breath weapon feats, and as a psion you can get metapsionic feats. Both work on the breath weapon granted by Gemstone Breath (and boosting your ML works REALLY well here).

Then, once you hit level 13, you can take the Energy Conversion power, which allows you to blast for a few hours with very few pp. Use psi-based action economy breakers and properly positioned metapsionic feats, ML-boosters, and similar to boost your damage really high.
I'd love to use those metabreath feats more.  They always struck me as intriguing, but not all that useful day in day out. 

Is the idea here that you can load up on things that make your breath take forever to recharge b/c it's expended anyway?  That way you get a "fresh" undelayed one next time you manifest the power? 

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2011, 10:32:45 PM »
...
If you really wanna blast without expending tons of resources, a (heart) dragonborn psion (preferably dwarf or warforged) can use the Gemstone Breath power in Races of the Dragon. Note that as a dragonborn you can grab lots of breath weapon feats, and as a psion you can get metapsionic feats. Both work on the breath weapon granted by Gemstone Breath (and boosting your ML works REALLY well here).

Then, once you hit level 13, you can take the Energy Conversion power, which allows you to blast for a few hours with very few pp. Use psi-based action economy breakers and properly positioned metapsionic feats, ML-boosters, and similar to boost your damage really high.
I'd love to use those metabreath feats more.  They always struck me as intriguing, but not all that useful day in day out. 

Is the idea here that you can load up on things that make your breath take forever to recharge b/c it's expended anyway?  That way you get a "fresh" undelayed one next time you manifest the power? 
You can do that if you want, but remember that if you're a (heart) dragonborn and take Gemstone Breath, you now have two different breath weapons to use, and so you can use both of them.

And metapsionics don't affect the cool-down time like metabreath feats do. Beyond that, they affect the power for its entire duration.

Go anarchic initiate for additional Oomph, too. A double-Empowered, Empower Breath'd, chaotic surged, fully augmented breath weapon would be really good to fire off, especially if you took Metapower (Empower Power + Gemstone Breath).

Use Breath Weapon feats at will every time you use either breath weapon to get the most out of the situation you're in; after all, you have another one available next round, right?

This also works nicely if you share with your psicrystal, too.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
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charleskoz

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2011, 11:47:10 PM »
I do like the idea of using Scout / Ranger on one side. Of course this means no more beguiler. I almost made a (non-gestalt) character like that once.

Not sure if I want to give up on the beguiler or not though. :)

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2011, 06:12:43 AM »
If you want to keep it simple you could also try something Warlock/Rogue (just with some mixes on both sides and Practised Spellcaster to increase Eldritch Blast and Invocations by 4). It could deal decent damage without running out of blasts.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Skillmonkey/Blaster Gestalt Ideas?
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2011, 03:47:47 PM »
If you want to keep it simple you could also try something Warlock/Rogue (just with some mixes on both sides and Practised Spellcaster to increase Eldritch Blast and Invocations by 4). It could deal decent damage without running out of blasts.
Now you just need to find ways of getting a full attack for decent damage.

Hellfire glaivelock, etc.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]