Author Topic: Countering Celerity (Or, how I learned to shut up and love winning Initiative)  (Read 7378 times)

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Shinzen

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See, this is when caster v caster is the only way to go. Contingency to Blink or something when a contingency spell goes off, maybe? Then you just have to find him within 10 minutes, out celerity, and get that smack in.

God damn, the tarrasque is less complicated to kill than a lv 12 wizard, and it had to have special rules made to make it more difficult to kill!

By the time my first round happens and I actually attack him, I have 2 50% miss chances from physical attacks which I think stack, a 50% miss chance from targeted spell attacks, saves in the 40-50's for 20 rounds, invisibility, Immunity to death spells and effects, crits and sneak attacks, Stoneskin, a Psionic Item with Divert Teleport, 2 standard actions and 1 move action a round, and a full attack which could kill the Tarrasque and end movement out of the corpse's charge range. I could probably throw SR in there, but I don't see how it's needed. I could always toss a Disjunction in there to break contingencies, and I have enough spell slots to follow wherever he teleports if I know where he's going. And even if he passes his Save or SR vs Divert Teleport, I still know his destination and can follow. He likely doesn't have enough Contingencies specifically for teleportation to counter this (There is a thing as being too paranoid in one aspect, it reduces the strength of your general paranoia.) and I only use one lv 5 slot in my buff routine leaving me with 7 or 8 Teleports.

I should probably have a contingent spell that triggers on a contingent spell triggering on me casting Mage's Disjunction to nip those in the bud though.

I'm fairly certain that once I win Initiative and get a free action to buff, I can survive anything below infinity or a NI loop that comes along from the wizard's contingencies if they are set to attack. And those wouldn't be allowed in any of the games I play in anyways.


SorO_Lost

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So a Paranoia caster can become literally invulnerable at one point even to another Paranoia caster?
Only if they are more paranoid than the other.

Countering Dire Turtle
Hide and attack. The bonus surprise round ironically happens before your surprise round, which was an assassination on an unknowing target. Logically He wastes his surprise remaining clueless. Also Dire Turtle it up as well, now both of you can act in the bonus surprise round according to your respective initiatives.

Countering Celerity
LIFO. Last In First Out.
Use Celerity your self. Since only higher level Martial Adapts have the ability to use two or more swift/immediate actions per round the last guy to use it gets to go.

P.S. Celerity gives X actions, it's still the other guy's turn. Therefor the interrupted guy can still use a swift action (it's a free action + limits) to use a Belt of Battle to grant him self additional actions as well.

Countering Mindsight
Range! Because there isn't anything else. Blame the horrible retarded rules not being detailed enough. The metamagic feat Ocular Spell and turn any spell you know into a pin point laser bombardment you can preform outside of Mindsight's range. And you know what goes good with that? Antimagic Field.

Countering Foresight
It's a trap. People are too busy quoting whispers and saying it gives them on the fly TO-Level CoP. Fuck em. Powerful Build says it makes you one size bigger, Dread Necro says you turn into a Lich. Guess what, those three things don't work like that. Check the mechanical effects not initial description statement.

Countering CoP
I believe I listed something like a 12 point argument on why CoP cannot work in a campaign the way TO-level claims it does. Something along the lines of godly red tape (there is quite a bit there), super over deity's ability to create a new hell just for people that annoy him, LIFO again comes in and the last guy to CoP would be the accurate guy and since you are the guy attacking you would be CoPing until things are favorable making you the last guy, and finally of course throwing the true answer is haz law of word bullshit by just CoPing until you get a yes to a will I win question then fuck you I win. Also DL's time stream is unchangable, FR's can be altered with DM consent, no word on Grey Hawk or Eberron, so at best time changing is DM limited and at worst flat out impossible.

Countering True Sight
Concealment beats it. Basically True Sight sees though illusions, magical darkness, and true forms of people under the effects of transmutations, and that's it. Grave Mist his ass and he sill suffers miss chances and sight problems. Hide and his True Sight has problems, srsly this spell is pretty weak outside of dungeoneering.

Countering Astral Projection
Who the heck said the line vanished? Srsly, more word screw ups. They point out Astral Clone has a cord while on the Astral Plane and wipe their hands of the rules, later on the spell says Astral Clones can only affect creatures Astral Plane so eat poo and die. Anyway, the spell says a physical body must be materialized on other planes right after the clones can't affect non-Astral things and prior to that notes a silver cord is created for your second body. You have a shiny silver line showing people where they can coup degrace your helpless true body making this spell more of an polite way to be euthanized if the opponent has access to Planes Shift.

Countering Clone
Another trap spell. You can just leave some diamonds with a cardinal at Pelor's Church and someone will get around to casting Resurrection for you. If the BBEG gets to come back like any high level character can. Murder him in a way he can't come back. Like follow the silver line and cast Trap The Soul on the helpless guy. BoVD gives you some more ways to play screw anything but True Resurrection, but if people are too busy talking about Clone's Raise Dead effect you don't have to worry about those affects failing. Ever.

And that's all I care to type up today.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Tonymitsu

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Yeah, that would work, but the whole Beholder thing would kind of kill my attacking, it's a PA 2h Swiftblade Gish. I need actual hands.

Plus it would still require me to get an action off. If I can surprise the wizard and get an action off, he's dead anyways.
1) Shapechange your familiar into the beholder.
2) Use Teleport (shared with your familiar) to surprise the wizard.

This gets around both those limitations. The first thing he sees is a beholder appear right next to him, with its antimagic eye cone already aimed at him. Depending on how the DM interprets it, his contingencies might not even fire. Of course, this can be countered by Anticipate Teleport and the like...

But not by Wish.

One of Wish's effects, completely separate from duplicating spell effects, is "lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions."  At no point is the word teleport used, nor does Wish have the teleportation descriptor.  There are several epic examples of this portion of the spell being used to move from point to point on the same plane even when access to the Astral Plane is cut off.