Author Topic: Nytemare's DMG Rewrites: Arcane Archer  (Read 3114 times)

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Nytemare3701

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Nytemare's DMG Rewrites: Arcane Archer
« on: July 13, 2011, 05:28:37 PM »
Requirements
To qualify to become an arcane archer, a charac-
ter must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Elf or half-elf.
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weap-
on Focus (Any Bow).
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane
spells.


1st    +1     +2   +2   +0 Enhance arrow +1
2nd    +2    +3   +3   +0 +1 existing spellcasting class, Imbue arrow
3rd    +3    +3   +3   +1 Enhance arrow +2
4th    +4    +4   +4   +1 +1 existing spellcasting class, Improved Imbue (Touch), Seeker arrow
5th    +5    +4   +4   +1  Enhance arrow +3
6th    +6    +5   +5   +2 +1 existing spellcasting class, Improved Imbue (Area), Phase arrow
7th    +7    +5   +5   +2 Enhance arrow +4
8th    +8    +6   +6   +2 +1 existing spellcasting class, Improved Imbue (Personal), Hail of arrows
9th    +9    +6   +6   +3 Enhance arrow +5
10th  +10  +7   +7   +3 +1 existing spellcasting class, Imbue Mastery, Arrow of death

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: [spoiler]An arcane archer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields.[/spoiler]
Spellcasting:[spoiler] At each even numbered level the Arcane Archer gains new spells known and spells per day as if she had gained a level in whatever spellcasting class qualified her for Arcane Archer.[/spoiler]
Enhance Arrow (Su): [spoiler]At 1st level, every arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus. If the arrow was already magical (or fired from a magical bow), then this bonus is in addition to the existing bonuses (maximum +10).Imbue Arrow (Sp):Imbue Mastery: [spoiler]At 10th level, an imbued arrow can be used to fire a spell from the target instead of striking the target directly. Treat the target square as the origin of the spell for all purposes. For example, an archer could fire around a corner by shooting a ray spell imbued arrow at the turn in a hallway.[/spoiler]
Seeker Arrow (Sp):Using this ability does not require an action beyond the one required to fire the arrow.[/spoiler]
Phase Arrow (Sp): [spoiler]At 6th level, an arcane archer can launch an arrow (1 + Casting Stat/Day) at a target known to her within range, and the arrow travels to the target in a straight path, passing through any nonmagical barrier or wall in its way. (A wall of force, a wall of fire, or the like stops the arrow.) This ability negates cover, concealment, and even armor modifiers, but otherwise the attack is rolled normally. Using this ability does not require an action beyond the one required to fire the arrow.[/spoiler]
Hail of Arrows (Sp): [spoiler]In lieu of her regular attacks, (1 + Casting Stat/Day) an arcane archer of 8th level or higher can fire an arrow at each and every target within range, to a maximum of twoArrow of Death (Sp):(Successful save still deals 20d6 damage). It takes one day to make an arrow of death, and the arrow only functions for the arcane archer who created it. The arrow of death lasts no longer than one year, and the archer can only have one such arrow in existence at a time.[/spoiler]

As far as I can tell, this fixes everything wrong with the arcane archer. I'm aiming for a +0 to +1, what do you think?

Garryl

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Re: Nytemare's DMG Rewrites: Arcane Archer
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2011, 07:25:18 PM »
This still misses some major issues with the AA. Imbue Arrow still entirely replaces a spell's normal casting time, setting it to a standard action. Additionally, I don't see anything in the ability that lets you actually store the spells, since the action required launches the arrow anyways. The subsequent arrow abilities are still 1/day things that, while helpful, don't really do much (especially for only a single shot). Arrow of Death still has its fixed save DC, so it will usually amount to just dealing +20d6 damage on that one shot. Hail of Arrows still needs an action and an explanation of which attacks it replaces (if I was feeling really cheesy, I could interpret it to work off of any time you would get any normal attacks at all, both the full-attacks that appear to be intended and standard action attacks that probably aren't, although probably not attacks of opportunity; if I was feeling really nasty, I could interpret it to replace all attacks you could ever make forever).

The half casting doesn't feel right to me, either. A warrior-focused entry doesn't get much in the way of spellcasting to imbue to beat just shooting a full-attack, and a spellcaster-focused entry doesn't get any abilities worth giving up 5+ spellcaster levels for. A two level dip is still worth considering, though, for the same ranged AMF arrows (and similar imbuing trickery), although Enhance Arrow +1 and a CL 20 GMW does give the ability to pierce DR/Epic now, also.

If I was rewriting this myself, I'd be tempted to just remove the spellcasting requirement entirely and give the AA it's own 4th- or 5th-level spellcasting progression (similar to the Assassin, Blackguard, and similar PrCs) with a variety of useful archery spells and area spells to be imbued.
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
[/spoiler]

Nytemare3701

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Re: Nytemare's DMG Rewrites: Arcane Archer
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2011, 10:43:41 PM »
This still misses some major issues with the AA. Imbue Arrow still entirely replaces a spell's normal casting time, setting it to a standard action. Additionally, I don't see anything in the ability that lets you actually store the spells, since the action required launches the arrow anyways. The subsequent arrow abilities are still 1/day things that, while helpful, don't really do much (especially for only a single shot). Arrow of Death still has its fixed save DC, so it will usually amount to just dealing +20d6 damage on that one shot. Hail of Arrows still needs an action and an explanation of which attacks it replaces (if I was feeling really cheesy, I could interpret it to work off of any time you would get any normal attacks at all, both the full-attacks that appear to be intended and standard action attacks that probably aren't, although probably not attacks of opportunity; if I was feeling really nasty, I could interpret it to replace all attacks you could ever make forever).

The 1/day abilities are now part of normal attack actions, meaning they are no longer wastes of actions to do. I might make them 3/day though. Arrow of death seems fine. You can use it for the style points shot on a minion, or use it for reliable bonus 20d6 against a real foe. As for Hail of Arrows, I propose making it a full attack action.


The half casting doesn't feel right to me, either. A warrior-focused entry doesn't get much in the way of spellcasting to imbue to beat just shooting a full-attack, and a spellcaster-focused entry doesn't get any abilities worth giving up 5+ spellcaster levels for. A two level dip is still worth considering, though, for the same ranged AMF arrows (and similar imbuing trickery), although Enhance Arrow +1 and a CL 20 GMW does give the ability to pierce DR/Epic now, also.

If I was rewriting this myself, I'd be tempted to just remove the spellcasting requirement entirely and give the AA it's own 4th- or 5th-level spellcasting progression (similar to the Assassin, Blackguard, and similar PrCs) with a variety of useful archery spells and area spells to be imbued.

It has to be compatible with the current core, meaning no new spells or spells from other books. I think I can fix the warrior AND caster sides with this change to how it imbues spells:

Fixed Version?It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. Arrows may be stored for up to 1 hour per Arcane Archer level.[/spoiler]

Tada! Nova capability for the casters and full attack capability for warriors!

kurashu

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Re: Nytemare's DMG Rewrites: Arcane Archer
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2011, 01:08:35 AM »
Why not make the other abilities either 1 + Casting Stat/Day or 1/encounter.

As for casting, make it lose casting at 1, 4, 7 and 10 ala Swiftblade and just be sure to make the abilities that good.

Why not change the channeling to scale with the class so a two level dip isn't all that's taken? At level 2, allow the AA to imbue the arrow with a spell that has a range of touch (similar to the duskblade). Then allow area effects later?

Nytemare3701

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Re: Nytemare's DMG Rewrites: Arcane Archer
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2011, 04:33:51 AM »
Why not make the other abilities either 1 + Casting Stat/Day or 1/encounter.

As for casting, make it lose casting at 1, 4, 7 and 10 ala Swiftblade and just be sure to make the abilities that good.

Why not change the channeling to scale with the class so a two level dip isn't all that's taken? At level 2, allow the AA to imbue the arrow with a spell that has a range of touch (similar to the duskblade). Then allow area effects later?

I'll make it ray at 2, touch at 4, area at 6, and personal at 8. The capstone will be the ability to cast spells FROM the location of the arrow, so you can fire at a corner and shoot a ray from the arrow's perspective, or shoot a fireball OUT OF an arrow.

kurashu

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Re: Nytemare's DMG Rewrites: Arcane Archer
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2011, 05:15:08 PM »
Time to Tenser's Transform some energy mages. Also, why maintain the racial restriction on the prestige class? I've always found racial restrictions annoying at best and typically ignore them unless it makes real sense (Weretouched Master). Just curious.

Nytemare3701

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Re: Nytemare's DMG Rewrites: Arcane Archer
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 07:46:07 AM »
Time to Tenser's Transform some energy mages. Also, why maintain the racial restriction on the prestige class? I've always found racial restrictions annoying at best and typically ignore them unless it makes real sense (Weretouched Master). Just curious.

Minimal alteration of the existing features. It's a full rewrite, so I'm trying not to accidentally break something.

EjoThims

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Re: Nytemare's DMG Rewrites: Arcane Archer
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 03:31:37 PM »
Minimal alteration of the existing features. It's a full rewrite...

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Those two together are... Well...

 ???

Also, you didn't fix the problem where seeker, phase, and hail all suck and are only 1/day.

1/enc and all but hail would still be lame. I would recommend making seeker and phase take a standard action, and phase upgrades seeker to be done on an attack action. Also, make sure to note how magic armor interacts with phase, since magic walls stop it but mundane armors do not. As well, note if it's armor bypassing includes NA.

And no, the fact that hail 1/day you could use hail to burn through all your otherX spells, plus an additional Y per arcane archer level, at a time.

At 2nd level, when this ability is gained, an arcane archer may store ray spells. At 4th level the Arcane Archer can store touch spells, at 6th level spells with an area effect, and at 8th level personal spells."

Adding the X+Y limit to number of spells stored allows for making hail 1/enc so that it no longer sucks. I would recommend 0+2 or 5+1. The first gives more total over time but the second allows for a wider variety at the start of the PrC.

Nytemare3701

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Re: Nytemare's DMG Rewrites: Arcane Archer
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2011, 07:43:23 PM »
Minimal alteration of the existing features. It's a full rewrite...

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Those two together are... Well...

 ???
I worded that badly. I'm trying to tweak everything, while changing it as little as possible in the process.

Also, you didn't fix the problem where seeker, phase, and hail all suck and are only 1/day.

1/enc and all but hail would still be lame. I would recommend making seeker and phase take a standard action, and phase upgrades seeker to be done on an attack action. Also, make sure to note how magic armor interacts with phase, since magic walls stop it but mundane armors do not. As well, note if it's armor bypassing includes NA.

And no, the fact that hail 1/day you could use hail to burn through all your otherX spells, plus an additional Y per arcane archer level, at a time.

At 2nd level, when this ability is gained, an arcane archer may store ray spells. At 4th level the Arcane Archer can store touch spells, at 6th level spells with an area effect, and at 8th level personal spells."

Adding the X+Y limit to number of spells stored allows for making hail 1/enc so that it no longer sucks. I would recommend 0+2 or 5+1. The first gives more total over time but the second allows for a wider variety at the start of the PrC.

Sounds good to me. I don't like 1/encounter stuff though, so I'll use the casting stat method.

EjoThims

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Re: Nytemare's DMG Rewrites: Arcane Archer
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2011, 08:08:10 PM »
Sounds good to me. I don't like 1/encounter stuff though, so I'll use the casting stat method.

Different tastes, lol. I've personally never liked the idea of mundane abilities being all burned through in one fight. "Zomg guys... I got WAY too angry earlier today... Dunno if I can get made again today."  :lmao