Author Topic: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?  (Read 9959 times)

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AlcariTheMad

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[Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« on: July 10, 2011, 10:33:39 PM »
I'm building a character for a Pathfinder campaign, with all Paizo books allowed (cheese subject to DM approval).  The party is currently level 4 and needing a healer, so we agreed that the next character to die would be replaced by one.  My wizard died last session, leaving me with the duty of building one.

The DM suggested that I create a Mystic Theurge, but from reading various forums, levels 4-7 seem to be the worst time to play such a build.  I'd like to play as a Mystic Theurge because they can heal, which is a major issue for the party, and because I typically play prepared arcane casters (mostly wizards).

I'd like to be a different kind of caster than I was last time, so preferably not a gnome illusionist.  Also, for RP reasons, I'd like to worship Pharasma if possible.

With the following stat array, how best can I go about this?
15
15
14
13
12
11

The rest of the party has:
Dwarf Drunken Monk
Human Ranger (2 weapon)
Human(not sure?) Rogue

So far I'm considering Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 10/X 4

I'm thinking of taking these feats:
Addtional Traits for Reactionary and Magical Knack (Wizard)
Arcane Armor Training

I've got 6000 gold to work with, and may spend no more than 50% of it on a single item.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 12:13:56 AM by AlcariTheMad »

Phoenix00

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2011, 11:08:33 PM »
Can you just play an archivist instead?

AlcariTheMad

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2011, 11:10:19 PM »
I could ask the DM, but I'm 100% sure his answer will be no.

ImperatorK

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2011, 11:52:44 PM »
I could ask the DM, but I'm 100% sure his answer will be no.
Why?

Try Cleric 4/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge X or Druid 6/Wizard 1/Arcane Hierophant X
Use Precocious Apprentice to get into MC/AH earlier.
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[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

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AlcariTheMad

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2011, 11:53:39 PM »
The topic and first sentence both say Pathfinder.  Pathfinder doesn't have those classes.

Daniel678

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2011, 11:56:43 PM »
Pathfinder is designed to work with 3.5 material. Very little 3.5 stuff needs modifications.

AlcariTheMad

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2011, 11:57:13 PM »
That doesn't mean the DM will allow that material.

Daniel678

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2011, 12:06:52 AM »
No it does not. However it is very well established that 3.5 material can be used with pathfinder. It is one of the main reasons that people use the system. The players handbook says on the very first page (well, page 4) that you can use any existing 3.5 book without any conversion. While you DM may not allow 3.5 material that would be the exception and not the rule. If you point out where it says these things in the pathfinder rulebooks I don't think it would be hard to convince him to allow 3.5 material.

amazingtrapsmith

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2011, 12:10:30 AM »
Can you just play an archivist instead?
If it's MAD you're worried about, Ultimate Magic has a WIS-based Sorc (of all things).  Obviously not as preferable as Wizard but it could work if you have something like Precocious Apprentice.

Also, Dragon Magazine was published by Paizo, right?  And all Paizo material is allowed.

AlcariTheMad

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2011, 12:13:44 AM »
Can you just play an archivist instead?
If it's MAD you're worried about, Ultimate Magic has a WIS-based Sorc (of all things).  Obviously not as preferable as Wizard but it could work if you have something like Precocious Apprentice.

Also, Dragon Magazine was published by Paizo, right?  And all Paizo material is allowed.

I'll look into the wis-based sorcerer, but I can't see it being much more advantageous than Oracle/Sorcerer for a pure cha build.

I'll edit the first post to more accurately reflect what is allowed.

amazingtrapsmith

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2011, 12:23:45 AM »
Can you just play an archivist instead?
If it's MAD you're worried about, Ultimate Magic has a WIS-based Sorc (of all things).  Obviously not as preferable as Wizard but it could work if you have something like Precocious Apprentice.

Also, Dragon Magazine was published by Paizo, right?  And all Paizo material is allowed.

I'll look into the wis-based sorcerer, but I can't see it being much more advantageous than Oracle/Sorcerer for a pure cha build.

I'll edit the first post to more accurately reflect what is allowed.
Oracle/Sorc enters Mystic Theurge at 9.  You're finally getting 3rd level spells at 10.  Without early entry, Mystic Theurge is a truly bad class.

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2011, 01:13:34 AM »
Either do that Wis-Sorc idea and enter a level later, or be an Aasimar and do Cleric/Sorc.  I tried, but could not find a race that gives +2 Int and +2 Wis, unfortunately. If you do wisdom-only, use Dwarf, Tengu, Grippli, or Undine.  Or Half-elf, I guess.

AlcariTheMad

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2011, 01:39:43 AM »
I won't take Oracle/Sorcerer, I'll be using Cleric/Wizard, which is only 3 levels behind.  Magical Knack offsets some of the lost CL for either Cleric or Wizard.

The rest of the party is unoptimized, and the DM generally balances for that, so being 'bad' by CO standards is fine.

There is a race that gives +2 int and +2 wis:  Drow noble.  However, I most likely will not be one, because its bonuses are so good that I'm having trouble convincing the DM to let me take it without LA (on that note, how could one go about tuning down the drow noble's other abilities but still retain their flavor [and mental stat bumps]?).

Aasimar is probably the best choice aside from that; dwarf is bad because the cha penalty limits my channel energy uses and I need to heal the party efficiently.

Bill Bisco: Eloquent Elf

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2011, 01:50:11 AM »
I would go Spell Domain into Mystic Theurge.  Cleric 5/Wizard 1/ Mystic Theurge 10.  Anyspell qualifies you as casting Arcane spells ;)

gourdcaptain

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2011, 03:41:13 AM »
If you're going straight PF material, the Witch class is a prepared Arcane caster who gets all the cure spells (it's a weird spell list - not quite as strong as either Wizard or Cleric from what I've heard, but looks serviceable). And with the healing patron, pretty much all restorative spells. UM added the Hedge Witch option which replaces two Hex slots with starting at LV 4 being able to spontaneously cast cures like a Cleric. (They cast off Int, for reference). But after seeing their list and the Spontaneous Cures, we've pretty much jokingly called them in my group Mystic Theurge the class. Probably not what you want, but thought I'd mention it.

rasmuswagner

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2011, 04:41:48 AM »
Yeah, healing Witch might not be horrible. Because Mystic Theurge without early entry tricks is very, very bad.

Level 4 witch with the Healing Patron and the healing Hex has full spellcaster ability, access to CLW, able to cast it spontaneously like a cleric with the Hedge Witch ACF, and a daily CLW (Cure Moderate at next level) with no AoO per party member on top of that. He can also cast Lesser Restoration, and he'll get all the condition curing spells as he levels up.

A Mystic Theurge without early entry gets remove disease, blindness, curses at level 8 instead of level 5. He gets Restoration and Neutralize Poison at level 10, not 7. At levels 5 to 10, he's not doing the job of a healer anywhere near well enough.




Fadier

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2011, 09:28:38 AM »
As mentioned in the Interesting stuff in PF thread using the Wildblooded Archetype Sorcerer you can change your casting stat to Wisdom (Empyreal) or Intelligence (Sage).

Quite useful for a Mystic Theurge.
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awaken DM golem

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2011, 08:37:38 PM »
 :flutter

When Mystic Theurge is in the title of the thread,
I'm willing to "bet" a Mystic Theurge will be allowed.


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There is a Handbook on this topic.
And the standard critique/caveat applies: try to minimize falling behind the standard caster power curve.
Plenty of suggestion above go this way.
And Archivist 2nded.


SRD Generic Caster also works.
Or you could talk the Human Rogue into going Rogue 1 / Wizard 19 ... a standard build.
idk how these work in PF.

Akalsaris

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Re: [Pathfinder] How to survive until becoming Mystic Theurge?
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2011, 09:18:55 PM »
I was also going to suggest witch as a class that fills the roles that you're looking for better than mystic theurge does.