Author Topic: Maxing a mental stat  (Read 20396 times)

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2011, 08:28:03 PM »
They're not bonuses, arguably. They're just modified upon reaching an age category, according to the PHB (they "go up or down", and are clearly cumulative in the table). This does indicate that Timeless Body actually does nothing, though.

There's also the argument that since we're apparently treating mental and physical stat modifications differently, you've already got your venerable modification.
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xamas

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2011, 08:29:53 AM »
it's not much but faustian pacts from fiendish codex 2 can get you another +1 to a stat.

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2011, 03:00:53 PM »
There's the Human Race Variant in #320 that gives +2 to any stat. Can be combined with human paragon for another +2.
Also remember the Hoofs for +10 Int (3/day for each 7 or 8 hours). With high UMD no problem.

/edit: dunno the exact range/duration for that spell draining spell, but I'm sure you can persist it (f.e. via Archmage making it from Touch to 30ft. fixes the range)

KellKheraptis

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2011, 07:05:59 PM »
There's the Human Race Variant in #320 that gives +2 to any stat. Can be combined with human paragon for another +2.
Also remember the Hoofs for +10 Int (3/day for each 7 or 8 hours). With high UMD no problem.

/edit: dunno the exact range/duration for that spell draining spell, but I'm sure you can persist it (f.e. via Archmage making it from Touch to 30ft. fixes the range)

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awaken DM golem

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2011, 10:16:11 PM »
Please bear in mind that if you're being a venerable grey elf, your Con score will be so low that a stiff breeze could be the death of you.  Maybe beat the stiff breeze to the punch and die by becoming a necropolitan.

 ;) ... but you would "know" that ahead of time.

Heck, you could forecast the weather and figure out what protect-o spells you'd need.


Bauglir

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2011, 01:12:00 AM »
Are permanent boosts that can be dispelled legit? I'm wondering if we've discussed Polymorphing Any Object yourself into a Pit Fiend twice.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

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SorO_Lost

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2011, 05:25:10 AM »
Oh I didn't even know we had a thread like this.

I've been working on a Sorcerer build during the dead hours of the night. It is at 68 Charisma (70 with magic-blooded). +0 LA, no Infusion based bonus altering, and it's not a dragon or kobold. Though I really don't understand how the Psionic Racial Classes work, I've seen it suggested on the forums that a Primordial Lesser Half Giant is +0 LA and you're not required to take Racial Levels, any enlightenment would be nice. Anyway, details!

Charisma: 68 (+29) = 18 (base) + 5 (level) + 5 (inherent:wish/tome) + 3 (age) + 4 (racial:primordial) + 2 (untyped:visage) + 4 (competence: command) + 4 (moral:snowsong) + 4 (profane:devil's ego) + 4 (sacred:rightous aura) + 8 (enhancement:nixe's grace) + 6 (untyped:horseshoes) + 1 (untyped: magical location-worm of minauros)

I even have a build posted online that shows you how to cast all those spells and Persist them for free. But it's too close to my bed time to search for it. Just think Sorcerer ACF, Rune Staff of Bard spells, Domain Staff, Eternal Wand, Sacred Exorcist + Turn items (not one of them a duplicate) with Incantatrix tossed in for the awesomeness of it.

Edit - Fixed a number I missed in the description leading to a reader ignoring the detailed table and incorrectly reading things. I'd make a horrible rules author but at least I'm awesome with errata.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 02:58:05 AM by SorO_Lost »
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

CantripN

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2011, 05:24:28 PM »
Faustian Pact for +1 CHA, and the Worm of Minauros (8K Magical Location) for another +1 CHA. Without selling your soul, it can allow you to just get Age +3 and WoM for +1 for a +29 MOD.

And then, there's class levels:
Fiendblooded, Human Paragon and Dragon Devotee are all good ways to get more CHA, with (some) decent other stuff, too. There's also Risen Martyr, but that's robbing you your CON score...
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awaken DM golem

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2011, 07:42:31 PM »
Are permanent boosts that can be dispelled legit? I'm wondering if we've discussed Polymorphing Any Object yourself into a Pit Fiend twice.

Sure.
Especially if you have whatever Custom Item of Counterspelling problem spell X Y and Z, handy.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2011, 01:13:18 AM »
<snip>
Useful things, I added the Worm and last age increase for more Charisma. Thanks.

However, I used the Exorcist's Turning for Persistance to no Fiend-Blooded (and probably faustian pact) and it is also a templated half-giant so no Human Paragon. Perhaps someone else can follow up with your suggestions and my race/spell listing. My intention is less greatest Charisma ever, but super high charisma on a full caster, just figured I'd chime in since I did reach a number higher than the 50ish Kobold. So the Devotee is out, Risen Martyr with it's removal of the -6 penalty to Con looks tempting but that is a 2 CL loss :(
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2011, 02:39:21 AM »
Oh I didn't even know we had a thread like this.

I've been working on a Sorcerer build during the dead hours of the night. It is at 66 Charisma (70 with magic-blooded). +0 LA, no Infusion based bonus altering, and it's not a dragon or kobold. Though I really don't understand how the Psionic Racial Classes work, I've seen it suggested on the forums that a Primordial Lesser Half Giant is +0 LA and you're not required to take Racial Levels, any enlightenment would be nice. Anyway, details!

Charisma: 68 (+29) = 18 (base) + 5 (level) + 5 (inherent:wish/tome) + 3 (age) + 4 (racial:primordial) + 2 (untyped:visage) + 4 (competence: command) + 4 (moral:snowsong) + 4 (profane:devil's ego) + 4 (sacred:rightous aura) + 8 (enhancement:nixe's grace) + 6 (untyped:horseshoes) + 1 (untyped: magical location-worm of minauros)

I even have a build posted online that shows you how to cast all those spells and Persist them for free. But it's too close to my bed time to search for it. Just think Sorcerer ACF, Rune Staff of Bard spells, Domain Staff, Eternal Wand, Sacred Exorcist + Turn items (not one of them a duplicate) with Incantatrix tossed in for the awesomeness of it.
I'm confused about how magic-blooded would add +4 charisma; IIRC, it's only +2.

Toss on unseelie fey while you're at it, so long as you have an appropriate type.
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2011, 02:56:30 AM »
It is at 66 Charisma (70 with magic-blooded).
I'm confused about how magic-blooded would add +4 charisma; IIRC, it's only +2.

Toss on unseelie fey while you're at it, so long as you have an appropriate type.
Typo, I updated the post a few hours ago you know. The Charisma breakdown correctly says 68 (was 66) but I missed the other 66 number before. Well I got it now...

Also, idk if anyone has told you or not, examples in WotC/Dragon tend to be misleading to downright incorrect to a point no one really respects them. The actual Unseelie Fey Templete has no LA entry due to being a nothing more than copy paste version of it's original 3E release, which wasn't designed to be a PC template according to a sidebar and notably is at least a +1 template.

Edit, let TML know I already fixed the previous post.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 03:02:10 AM by SorO_Lost »
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

CantripN

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2011, 07:47:02 AM »
Have you considered Human Heritage for your Half-Giant to qualify for Human Paragon? That's legal, I think, and that one has other benefits, too.
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zook1shoe

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2011, 11:16:33 AM »
Have you considered Human Heritage for your Half-Giant to qualify for Human Paragon? That's legal, I think, and that one has other benefits, too.

I don't see why not?

CantripN

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2011, 02:29:52 PM »
Have you considered Human Heritage for your Half-Giant to qualify for Human Paragon? That's legal, I think, and that one has other benefits, too.
The legality isn't contested. The willingness to lost 1 spellcaster level, is.
I don't see why not?
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

zook1shoe

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2011, 02:47:11 PM »
*cough* tags *cough*

Oh ok, I know the feeling

awaken DM golem

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #56 on: September 17, 2011, 06:12:11 PM »
LA +2 with buy-off fits within 20 level and no problems.
1 racial HD + 2 LA = probably fine.
2 racial HD + 2 LA gets just about to the point where I'd wanna see the math.

LA +3 with buy-off doesn't really get caught up by level 20.
I'd say make it a level 19 build, and I'll give you the level 20 exp for crafting or whatever.



Assimilate (Psi9) is a +4 untyped bonus to all stats, but you have to kill a rat (sigh).

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2011, 10:55:35 PM »
I managed Int in the high 40s starting as a level 1 wizard with an Int score rolled as 8.

Venerable age (+3)
Level-ups (+5)
Headband (+6)
Wishes/Tome (+5)
Polymorph Any Object (+20 or so, depending on form; I used a sarruhk, for +22)
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2011, 05:57:45 PM »
I managed Int in the high 40s starting as a level 1 wizard with an Int score rolled as 8.

Venerable age (+3)
Level-ups (+5)
Headband (+6)
Wishes/Tome (+5)
Polymorph Any Object (+20 or so, depending on form; I used a sarruhk, for +22)
I don't know if age changes apply to PoA given it sets your intelligence to the creature you're turning into whom (probably) can't be aged to begin with. I am in favor of Inherent bonuses applying regardless of forms taken though. Necromantic Empowerment gives a +8 enhancement bonus for a +2 over the headband.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

McPoyo

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Re: Maxing a mental stat
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2011, 07:45:50 PM »
I managed Int in the high 40s starting as a level 1 wizard with an Int score rolled as 8.

Venerable age (+3)
Level-ups (+5)
Headband (+6)
Wishes/Tome (+5)
Polymorph Any Object (+20 or so, depending on form; I used a sarruhk, for +22)
I don't know if age changes apply to PoA given it sets your intelligence to the creature you're turning into whom (probably) can't be aged to begin with. I am in favor of Inherent bonuses applying regardless of forms taken though. Necromantic Empowerment gives a +8 enhancement bonus for a +2 over the headband.
Which can be higher, if you use some of the feats from the Dragon Compendium.
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They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

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