Author Topic: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth  (Read 6405 times)

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dark_samuari

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"Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« on: July 06, 2011, 09:33:28 PM »
So I was looking at Cityscape last night, specifically the section on traditional prices within a city. Be it from eating out to paying the rent the book had a solid system for all of them and this got me thinking to how your standard npc might go about attempting to get rich (without climbing down into dungeons or fighting dragons...). Partially this was sprung from my own campaign setting which takes a closer look at the role of economics in D&D, but from here let me present my sample squad of rich npcs.

Ribeye Jones: Male Middle-Aged Human Urban Adept 1; CR 1/2; Medium Humanoid (human); HD 1d6+0; hp 6; Init +0; Spd 30 ft.; AC 10, touch 10, flat-footed 10; Base Atk +0; Grp +0; Atk -2 melee (1d6+0/x2, 10ft.; club); SQ Domain (Commerce); AL LN; SV Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +3; Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12.
Skills and Feats: Appraise +5 (4 ranks +1 int), Craft (Culinary) +5 (4 ranks +1 int), Knowledge (Local) +5 (4 ranks +1 int), Profession (Restaurant Owner) +21 (4 ranks +1 wis +3 skill focus +2 masterwork tool +10 commerce domain +1 specialized) and Read/Write/Speak (Common and Elven); Favored in House, Mercantile Background and Skill Focus (Profession: Restaurant Owner).
Traits and Flaws: Specialized (Profession: Restaurant Owner); Non-combatant
Spells per Day: 3 0-level spells per day; 2 1st-level spells per day
Spells Typically Prepared: 0-level: Mending, Purify Food & Drink and Read Magic; 1st-level: Charm Person and Comprehend Languages.  
Equipment: Business Ledger (Masterwork Tool for Profession; $50 gp)
Variants: Urban Adept

Ribeye Jones is your standard business man within any larger city. He has only one real goal, profit, and at a very base level he does it well without the assistance of spells or magical trinkets. He earns his living through pure work, a capitalistic dream machine. Working Monday through Friday, he allows himself two days or rest. And what is Ribeye Jones able to afford, or in another way, how lucrative a life does he live?

Average Earnings per Week: +21 + taking ten = 31 / 2 = 15 x 2 = 30 gp

Well going off this standard prices listed in Cityscape and breaking down Ribeye Jones' income to a weekly approach he affords such an existence.
Weekly Income ($30 gp; $20 gp spent - $10 gp left)
Living: A large apartment ($7.5 gp)
Food: Two common meals and a fancy meal every night ($7 gp & 21 cp)
Entertainment: Once per week he attends the Opera! (1 gp)  
Service: A butler (expert 1) (4.2 gp)

So all together he's paying around $20 gp per week which leaves him $10 gp over to invest into further projects. For example it will take him about 15 months to pay off the loan from the bank for his low-scale restaurant (which he'll than own), after wards he'll save up & finally pay-off the loan for his average-scale restaurant in 12 years. So as he can see Ribeye Jones isn't without needs, he still depends on loans & such, but for all intents in purposes he isn't living an awful existence.

Reginald Comberbatch the Third: Male Middle-Aged Human Aristocrat 1/Adept 1; CR 1; Medium Humanoid (human); HD 1d8+0/1d6+0; hp 12; Init +0; Spd 30 ft.; AC 10, touch 10, flat-footed 10; Base Atk +0; Grp +0; Atk -2 melee (1d6+/x2, 10ft.; club); SQ Domain (Commerce); AL LN; SV Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +5; Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12.
Skills and Feats: Appraise +5 (4 ranks +1 int), Craft (Wordsmithing) +10 (4 ranks +1 int +2 masterwork tool +3 skill focus), Diplomacy +8 (4 ranks +1 cha +2 masterwork tool), Knowledge (Local) +5 (4 ranks +1 int), Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) +5 (4 ranks +1 int), Perform (Oratory) +10 (4 ranks +1 cha +3 skill focus +2 masterwork tool), Profession (Theatrical Director) +21 (4 ranks +1 wis +10 commerce bonus +1 specialized +3 skill focus +2 masterwork tool) and Read/Write/Speak (Common and Elven); Favored (Performer's Guild), Skill Focus (Craft: Wordsmithing), Skill Focus (Perform: Oratory) and Skill Focus (Profession: Theatrical Director).
Traits and Flaws: Specialized (Profession: Theatrical Director); Noncombatant and Shaky
Spells per Day: 3 0-level spells per day; 2 1st-level spells per day
Spells Typically Prepared: 0-level: Mending, Purify Food & Drink and Read Magic; 1st-level: Charm Person and Comprehend Languages.  
EquipmentVariants: Urban Adept

Reginald Comberbatch the Third is excessively rich, beyond his needs, and is the next step up, he is going to be doing far better than Ribeye Jones and for all reasons he should. Reginald is a celebrity, the equivalent of our George Clooney, and in any large city he lives with great ease. Through membership in the performer's guild (Cityscape pg. 90), which entitles him to gaining double his income from any performance or profession check (as long as they relate to performing/the arts), he pulls in a nice income. He works five days a week directing theatrical productions and in those evenings he performs at stage houses.

Average Earnings per Week: $550 gp
Craft (Wordsmithing): 20 (which means an Epic) = $500 gp; +10 + taking ten
Perform: 20 = 2 gp per day = 10 gp per week x2 = 20 gp per week; +10 + taking ten
Profession: 31 = 15 gp per week x2 = 30 gp per week; +21 + taking ten

Weekly Income ($550 gp; $191 spent - $359 gp left)
Living: Noble Villa ($25 gp)
Food: Three fancy meals every day with a fancy bottle of wine for five of those nights ($71 gp)
Entertainment: Twice per week he attends the Opera! & afterward a night of fancy drinking (64 gp)  
Service: Three Butlers (Expert 1) (13 gp)

As seen Reginald is living the life, perhaps even better than most adventures by all measures of comparison (after all he isn't hunted down by any Blackguards or Hydras...)

So hopefully through this exercise I have shown that your next character should stop adventuring all together and go into the wild world of stable work!
  
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 09:34:09 PM by dark_samuari »

altpersona

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2011, 12:35:19 AM »
looks like something as been left out, something important.



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« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 12:36:58 AM by altpersona »
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Saxony

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2011, 12:55:46 AM »
If I say something about real world physics, and someone disagrees, assume I am right 90% of the time. This number goes up to 100% if I am late night posting - trust me, my star dust sibs.

Maat_Mons

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2011, 01:09:11 AM »
I'm unclear on how these NPCs are affording a Monocle of the Gilded Lord.  Also, you seem to be using the use-activated pricing guidelines.  

If you are giving the especially well-off NPCs items of guidance of the avatar, I think you should give the less well-off NPCs items of wieldskill.  

Wieldskill:
+5 competence bonus one skill, can use skill untrained (1 min./level)
Cleric (initiate of Gond) 1
Player's Guide to Faerun 118

Here are some items that might be relevant to NPC crafters.  

Hammer of the Weaponsmith:
+10 circumstance bonus craft (weaponsmithing) checks
2,055 gp, held (tool)
Magic of Faerun 159, Races of Faerun 173

Knife of the Bowyer:
+10 circumstance bonus craft (bowmaking) checks
2,055 gp, held (tool)
Magic of Faerun 162

Tongs of the Armorer:
+10 circumstance bonus craft (armorsmithing) checks
2,055 gp, held (tool)
Magic of Faerun 166, Races of Faerun 173

PhaedrusXY

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2011, 02:30:49 AM »
Yeah... GotA is broken as a spell, much less as an "at will" item... No surprise that handing these out lets NPCs earn more money than they really should...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Maat_Mons

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2011, 03:03:11 AM »
I don't think you can make craft, perform, and profession checks for the same time period and add the money for all of them together. 

Where is urban adept from?  It looks a lot like Eberron adept (Eberron Campaign Setting 256). 

A magewright (Eberron Campaign Setting 256) can cast magecraft (Eberron Campaign Setting 113) at 1st level.  This provides a +5 competence bonus on craft checks.  Unlike guidance of the avatar, this spell lasts 24 hours, so DMs are actually likely to allow you to use it on a task that takes the whole day. 

I'm confused by your ability scores.  The non-elite array is 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8.  This is what's typically used for anyone with only NPC class levels. 

The artifice domain gives a +4 competence bonus on craft checks. 

Dwarves get a +2 racial bonus on craft checks related to metal. 

The prodigy template (Dungeon Master's Guide II 160) is cheesy for this. 

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2011, 05:03:38 AM »
Big deal.  I'm pretty sure a kobold with maxed profession:miner can make 500 gp a day creating pit traps.
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Saxony

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2011, 05:27:41 AM »
Big deal.  I'm pretty sure a kobold with maxed profession:miner can make 500 gp a day creating pit traps.
Not even close.

It has to make a craft ( trapmaking) check to make traps as DnD defines "trap". Profession (miner) is mentioned no where in making traps.

Why, you ask? Because it doesn't matter why. Those are the rules. You might want to look them up before saying things which sound unrealistically impressive. Oftentimes, they aren't true.
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dark_samuari

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2011, 05:36:19 AM »
I don't think you can make craft, perform, and profession checks for the same time period and add the money for all of them together. 

This is where the rules get a little iffy as there is no definition of a 'work day.' So profession maybe covers eight hours per day, for five days. After that you are entitled, by the rules, to make money performing (as the income from performing is based on a single performance, as opposed to the weekly scale of profession). Lastly crafting also doesn't have any set-limits (at least none for writing) and thus we have to guess where it might fit in. How long does it take to write, this might be where the rules fall apart...

Where is urban adept from?  It looks a lot like Eberron adept (Eberron Campaign Setting 256). 

Sharn: City of Towers offers the variant (it just gets a few different spells)

A magewright (Eberron Campaign Setting 256) can cast magecraft (Eberron Campaign Setting 113) at 1st level.  This provides a +5 competence bonus on craft checks.  Unlike guidance of the avatar, this spell lasts 24 hours, so DMs are actually likely to allow you to use it on a task that takes the whole day. 


I thought about the magewright (they're actually my go to npc class for my campaign), but decided to stay away for no real reason...

I'm confused by your ability scores.  The non-elite array is 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8.  This is what's typically used for anyone with only NPC class levels.

I went for the absolute static array, 10s or 11s across the board (as to represent the purest mediocre starting).


Seems I need to shift a feat around than (easily done though).

altpersona

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2011, 07:42:38 AM »
The goal of power is power. - idk
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

Anim-manga sux.


PhaedrusXY

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2011, 11:11:34 AM »
The NPC adepts should just sell their spellcasting services.  :D
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Kajhera

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2011, 11:21:43 AM »
Big deal.  I'm pretty sure a kobold with maxed profession:miner can make 500 gp a day creating pit traps.
Not even close.

It has to make a craft ( trapmaking) check to make traps as DnD defines "trap". Profession (miner) is mentioned no where in making traps.

Why, you ask? Because it doesn't matter why. Those are the rules. You might want to look them up before saying things which sound unrealistically impressive. Oftentimes, they aren't true.

They can, however, make better and cheaper pits.

Just won't be traps.

oslecamo

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2011, 11:38:10 AM »
Big deal.  I'm pretty sure a kobold with maxed profession:miner can make 500 gp a day creating pit traps.
Not even close.

It has to make a craft ( trapmaking) check to make traps as DnD defines "trap". Profession (miner) is mentioned no where in making traps.

Why, you ask? Because it doesn't matter why. Those are the rules. You might want to look them up before saying things which sound unrealistically impressive. Oftentimes, they aren't true.

They can, however, make better and cheaper pits.

Just won't be traps.

A certified pit trap built will last millenias if not eternity, never flooding, never grow dangerous mold/fungus or colapsing due to natural decay. You pay 1000 GP front, whic may sound outrageous, but you have the guarantee that it will be there for the next Eras when some adventurer finally finds and enters your base.

Kajhera

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2011, 11:55:43 AM »
Big deal.  I'm pretty sure a kobold with maxed profession:miner can make 500 gp a day creating pit traps.
Not even close.

It has to make a craft ( trapmaking) check to make traps as DnD defines "trap". Profession (miner) is mentioned no where in making traps.

Why, you ask? Because it doesn't matter why. Those are the rules. You might want to look them up before saying things which sound unrealistically impressive. Oftentimes, they aren't true.

They can, however, make better and cheaper pits.

Just won't be traps.

A certified pit trap built will last millenias if not eternity, never flooding, never grow dangerous mold/fungus or colapsing due to natural decay. You pay 1000 GP front, whic may sound outrageous, but you have the guarantee that it will be there for the next Eras when some adventurer finally finds and enters your base.

Not to mention bypasses, being hidden, you can reset it, and so forth.

If someone walks into a clearly visible pit, you probably shouldn't worry too much about making nice expensive traps for them.

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2011, 05:26:53 PM »
In my opinion the simplest and most common thing that destroy WBL is inheritance.

First Generation Tom the Farmer
+4 Ranks Profession Farmer
+1 Intelligence modifier.
+3 Skill Focus Farming
+2 Master tool Cost 50 Gold piece
+2 Assistance from Thomas son of Tom.
=
+12
Taking 10 on the test give 22 witch means = 11 Gold piece per Weak. 4 wreaks per Month give 44 gold piece. Witch means 528 gold piece per Year. Let's say that cost of live of Tom Family is 500 per year witch means that every year Tom have 28 gold piece of saving. Let's now say that he Buy for his savings a magic Enchants to his Master tools. It will cost according to DMG 100 gold. So only savings from 4 years.

Now Thomas inherit the farm

Second generation Thomas the Farmer
+4 Ranks Profession Farmer
+1 Intelligence modifier.
+3 Skill Focus Farming
+3 Master tool +1 Cost 150 Gold piece
+2 Assistance from Timothy son of Thomas
=
13
taking 10 gives 23 witch means = 11,5 gold piece per Weak. Witch means 46 gold piece per month witch means 552 gold piece per year. So he is richer than his Father.  and He send his son Timothy to the school. Timothy intelligent increase and he become Expert.

Third generation Timothy Expert
+4 Ranks Profession Farmer
+2 Intelligence modifier.
+3 Skill Focus Farming
+3 Master tool +1 Cost 150 Gold piece
+2 Assistance from Timmy
=
14
taking 10 means 24 = 12 gold piece per weak, and 48 per moth and witch means 576 per Year. Since he is a Expert he have several Craft and profession to reduce cost of live to 450 per year.
So now he have savings of 126 per year. So he not only sends Timmy to School like his father send hem, but also buy increase of his master tools to +3 witch will cost 800 gold piece. Savings from 8 years.

Forth generation Timmy
+4 Ranks Profession Farmer
+2 Intelligence modifier.
+3 Skill Focus Farming
+5 Master tool +3 Cost 950 Gold piece
+2 Assistance
=
16
Taking 10 will give a 26 = 13 gold per weak, witch means 52 per month witch means 624 per year. His cost are 450 per year. So he have 174 gold piece savings each year.
Timmy hired a professional labour and sends his son Tom to College.

And all that without increasing a level. But let's assume that Tom in college not only increase Intelligent to 16 but also get a level.

Sic generation Tom From College
+5 Ranks (Second level expert)
+3 Skill focus
+3 Intelligent modifier
+5 Master tools +3 cost 950
+2 Assistance
=
18
Taking 10 will give a 28 = 14 gold piece per weak, 56 per month and 672 per year. so he have Savings of 222 per year. He increase magic enchantment to +6 that will cost 2700

Seven Generation Thomas from College
+5 Ranks (Second level expert)
+3 Skill focus
+3 Intelligent modifier
+8 Master tools +6 cost 950
+2 Assistance
=
21taking 10 will give 31 = 15,5 gold piece per weak. 62 per month 744 per year.

And that is Peasant without spells.

What will do a Landlord? Knight? Aristocrat? What will do a King? Witch each generation and forever lasting magic all people are richer and richer and magic items are more common. And soon you have everybody witch +10 master tool and bandanna of intellect +2

And what will happen to the king's regalia, Crown, apple and Rod after 10 generation of accumulating magic enhancement? .
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[spoiler]It bears saying: if up against a logic-impervious DM who thinks Core is balanced and Psionics*  isn't, then the most powerful way to disprove that is to play a C.o.D. (Cleric or Druid). Noncore material will not be necessary unless you are going for pure overkill (Draconic Wildshape? Divine Metamagic?). So by all means, if you must win that argument, take you C.o.D. to town. Annihilate the opposition. Make the NPCs and other players scream "Oh no, it's C.o.D.zilla!!!!!" in badly dubbed English. Breathe radioactive fire. Knock down buildings. Then stomp out of the burning Tokyo that is the ruins of the game and swim off into the ocean, seeking a DM with some basic cognitive functions. [/profile]

awaken DM golem

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2011, 06:05:02 PM »
Urban Adept variant is from Cityscape --- idk anything about it.


DMG pricing on Custom Item of Guidance of the Avatar is: 2*3*1800= 10,800 gp.



What's weird about all this ... (and I'm a good judge of weird, eh?)
is all of these NPC 1s are still supposed to have 900 gp.
But if you go beat them up, they're supposed to have
whatever 1st level treasure, and perhaps randomly.

Maybe the amount of expenses they have includes security of their goodies,
and maintenance of existing relationships.
Such that the amount of "treasure" they have access to at any given time, is only
equal to the amount of treasure a BBEG or PC would get for beating them.

I mean an NPC 1 with a nifty Custom Item, better have that item hidden 
really well all of the time. The town Rogue is interested in borrowing it.
And you know, returning it when properly asked.
 ;)

dark_samuari

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2011, 06:23:59 PM »
DMG pricing on Custom Item of Guidance of the Avatar is: 2*3*1800= 10,800 gp.

It can be brought down significantly through an Artificer with the right feats (mainly Apprentice [Craftsman], Extraordinary Artisan & Magical Artisan [Craft Wondrous Item] and by restricting it to a skill (Knowledge: Nobility & Royalty) & a class (Aristocrat).

10,800 gp x 70% (3240 gp) = 7560 gp x 75% (1890 gp) = 5670 gp x 75% (1417 gp) = 4253 x 90% (425 gp) = 3828 gp x 90% (382 gp) = 3446 gp.

Now if the Aristocrat in question has Mercantile Background he can purchase it for 2585 gp (easily attainable should Maxwell or Reginald decided to save up their base capital to attain it. Even without it initially aiding them they still pull in enough spare money to put it into the investment. And this isn't even questioning if an Artificer would accept a loan to attain the item, with suitable interest applied...)

awaken DM golem

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2011, 06:59:02 PM »
Oh, well yes. That'll work.



minor tangent --- technically a city would have to have
one high level dude with leadership to pick an 8th level Psion,
so a Linked PsyRef can get the exact feat stack.
And one other high level dude with leadership to pick the Arty.

But trending toward T.O. means this is all possible without any extra justification.

dark_samuari

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Re: "Opulance, I has it"; A look into NPC wealth
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2011, 07:02:56 PM »
But trending toward T.O. means this is all possible without any extra justification.

To give you an idea my entire campaign is shaped around what would happen if Goodberry wondrous items were massed produced, so TO has come up to a degree.