Author Topic: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?  (Read 7423 times)

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Endarire

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Intro
Let's assume you're a Wizard.  You're smart and you know it.  You think you can take on the world 'alone.'  You don't need 'friends' or 'loot ninjas' to help you get the job done, because you're a Wizard!

But you start out squishy and not able to compensate for a balanced party's roles from level 1, at least on your own.  A Wizard7 with animate dead and Evard's black tentacles can solo easily, but what about doing things far before this?

Rules
-No infinite loops.  No nearly infinite loops.

-32 point buy.  You determine the starting level.
-Standard wealth by level, except level 1 Wizards start with 300 gold.
-LA buyoff is allowed.
-All official 3.5 material is allowed, except as noted.  Bonus points for using spiffy "Dungeon" or/and "Dragon" material.

-This character must take every level as "Wizard" or a PrC that requires and advances advances Wizard casting.  (War Weaver and Ruathar are OK but Human Paragon and Warblade are banned since they don't require the ability to cast Wizard/arcane/any spells.)
-Specialization, focused specialization, and racial substitution levels are OK.

-The feat Wild Cohort is OK.  Leadership, Draconic Leadership, and Undead Leadership are banned.
-Creatures obtained via gate, summoning, planar binding, animate dead, create undead, and other metaphysical abilities are OK.  Any other creatures that would detract from your XP gain are forbidden.
-You may have a maximum of 3 creatures adventuring with you at a time that you trained via Handle Animal.  Other creatures are left in reserve to guard your base or something.  All Animals and Magical Beasts purchased or otherwise acquired not by metaphysical means to aid you count against this 3 creature limit.  Thus, charm monster minions don't count against this limit, but buying a kennel of guard dogs does.
-No hirelings.
-No Thought Bottle (Complete Arcane)

-Persistent Spell also applies to spells with a range of melee touch.

-Magic and psionic items are for sale, and you can usually get what you want.  Items that cast spells or manifest powers (like dorjes and scrolls) are only available up to the maximum Wizard spell level you can currently cast, based on the Wizard's spell chart.  (No bypassing this with Heighten Spell, etc.)

-Item creation is allowed and encouraged, so long as all costs are properly paid.  (No farming minions for Distilled Joy factories or the like!)
-Magic and psionic traps, for our purposes, are immobile.  They're part of an architecture that usually isn't your own.  Kudos if you can build some magic traps in an enemy base and lure your foes into them.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

LordBlades

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2011, 06:29:00 AM »
I'd go with a 5th level Neraph wizard as the minimum  level you can do it at.

Being a 5HD outsider you can use Alter Self to turn yourself into a Dwarf Ancestor for 50 min (or 100 min if using a lesser rod of extend, 3000 GP). sung that in conjunction with Mage Armor (1hour/level), and Shield (1 min/level, cast when needed) You'd get an AC of 10 base+18 natural+4 Mage Armor+4 shield-1 size+your dex modifier=35+dex; For monsters that would use touch attacks, just cast Scintillating Scales (1 min/level) for a Touch AC of 27+dex. Both of those are well outside what creatures around CR 5 can hit so you can go into melee with impunity. If you're worried about the occasional lucky crit, add Blur and/or Mirror Image to that.

For Dispel Magic Protection, get a Ring of Counterspells(4000 GP).

For offensive purposes, Bull's Strength+a big two-hander(as outsider you're proficient with all martial weapons+the occasional True Strike or Wraithstrike should be enough.

Whenever you run out of spells, just pop an extended Rope Trick (10 hours) and rest.


Ginve no time constraints I feel such a build can solo most encounters in it's CR range.




JaronK

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 06:55:19 AM »
Well, by level 3 an Outsider Wizard could cast Alter Self to become a Dwarf Ancestor for +15 Natural AC, which combined with Mage Armor should be enough to completely ignore virtually every AC based attack at that level.  Combined with a few purchased Warbeasts, you should be good to handle any and all low level combat encounters (I recommend Warbeast Desmoderu Hunting Bats, since they can fly and bring down enemy fliers).

JaronK

LordBlades

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2011, 07:38:24 AM »
Well, by level 3 an Outsider Wizard could cast Alter Self to become a Dwarf Ancestor for +15 Natural AC, which combined with Mage Armor should be enough to completely ignore virtually every AC based attack at that level.  Combined with a few purchased Warbeasts, you should be good to handle any and all low level combat encounters (I recommend Warbeast Desmoderu Hunting Bats, since they can fly and bring down enemy fliers).

JaronK

Dwarf Ancestor has 5 HD, so you need CL5 on Alter self to become a Dwarf Ancestor(that's why my example was 5th level, despite only using 1st and 2nd level spells). If we can find a low level way to increase CL to 5, then the minimum level drops to 3 indeed (or 4 if you deem that being able to rest 8 hours in a Rope Trick mandatory for the build I fail, it's rather hard to have CL 5 and not have CL 4 :lmao)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 07:50:47 AM by LordBlades »

Midnight_v

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2011, 07:40:16 AM »
Wow... I think this is do able. Hmm... great thread "E"

I would attempt this from level 1!
The first tool in my repitoire will be this taken from the awesome Low level build compilation:

Wizard OR Sorcerer Optimization (by Mr. Dog):
[spoiler]
Required Race: Human, Strongheart halfling, or any race with a bonus feat of the player's choice
At 1st level, take the feats Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane) and your choice of Winter's Blast or Fiery Burst (Reserve Feats, Complete Mage).
This gives you a second level spell slot in which you may prepare (or with which you may spontaneously cast) a 2nd level spell with the Fire or Cold Descriptor.

As long as you leave the 2nd level spell uncast, all day long, you have a cone of cold that deals 2d4 damage or a 5-foot radius burst of fire that deals 2d6 damage. You can still cast all your normal 1st level spells, and behave as any other 1st level spellcaster does, but you have area affect damage at the ready all day.

The wizard can (upon reaching third level) take the other reserve feat he didn't take at 1st level to have an extra choice for damage.

If you are allowed flaws, you can accomplish this at 1st level with any race you like.[/spoiler]
What do you Need for this build?
Quote
All official 3.5 material is allowed, except as noted.  Bonus points for using spiffy "Dungeon" or/and "Dragon" material.
I would not suggest that an optimizer worth his salt, would deign to wipe his ass with his even the softest of paizo's shit stained printing. . .  :pout

 :lol   :D (been watching spartacus all day!)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 07:56:59 AM by Midnight_v »
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jojolagger

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2011, 03:38:08 PM »
If we can find a low level way to increase CL to 5, then the minimum level drops to 3 indeed (or 4 if you deem that being able to rest 8 hours in a Rope Trick mandatory for the build I fail, it's rather hard to have CL 5 and not have CL 4 :lmao)

I have a level 1 Char casting at CL 6. 1 + 1 Spellgifted +1 Fiery Burst + 3 Reserves of Strength. 6d4 Burning hands at 1st level.
Countdown to Zombie Apocalypse 97
When you see this, copy it into your sig and -1
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Quotes [spoiler]
In other words, he thinks there's a "correct" way to play D&D.  *sigh*
There is: Kill shit and loot the corpse!
When you use a tool the way it was designed for -- its intended function -- then it will work very well for you.

But it's not the tool's fault if you use it for something else and you fail utterly, such as trying to eat cereal with a butterknife, pounding nails with a screwdriver, blogging to voice your political opinions, and brushing your teeth with a hammer.
[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2011, 08:11:48 PM »
Midnight, that trick is so old it's not funny. It's so old Precocious Apprentice meeting prerequisites as the ability to cast 2nd level spells was debunked months before Reserve Feats came out.

For a recap, Reserve Feats require the ability to cast X level spells.
Not a spell, not even cast two spells of X level, the ability to cast X level spells. This is very impotent because Precocious Apprentice in a no ands ifs or buts says in two different areas "Until your level is high enough to allow you to cast 2nd-level spells," & "When you become able to cast 2nd-level spells" flat out implying without a doubt Precocious Apprentice never granted any ability to cast 2nd level spells in a prerequisites rules relevant way.

Now, Versatile Spellcaster on the other hand is opened ended to do so and is in fact supported by the Sage to allow you to cast above your normal limits. A Versatile Spellcaster + Winter's Blast trick would work, but you need to 'learn' the spell as a Sorcerer or access Spontaneous Casting as a Wizard. Which can be done though various methods (Spontaneous Summoning for example).
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 08:13:31 PM by SorO_Lost »
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2011, 09:08:09 PM »
Wizard 1.

Take Spell Mastery and sell your spellbook. Retrain yourself to the eidetic spellcaster ACF and retrain out Spell Mastery.  Buy a warbeast polar bear and equip it with the best armor you can afford, and retrain its feats to something useful (such as Martial Study and Martial Stance). Use your proceeds to buy a couple more over the course of the next level.

Once you can start making minions, raise your polar bears as skeletons.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 09:09:54 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Midnight_v

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2011, 09:33:16 PM »
   While I'm aware that its an old trick... I"m not sure I'd agree with your interpretation, the very reason I found that to be valid was because it's been around so long and I'be never seen anyone speak out about it being wrong until... you, and your salty haterness  :fu.
If anyone else cares to weigh in or you could perhaps link me to your sources for said interpretation, or if Endarire crys foul, I'll consider it.
(edit: I stopped this post and started googling, it is a higly debated thing, so I'll withdraw it as we don't need questionable things to solo with the wizard)

The second choice would be as stated above I'd sadly have to resort to manipulating caster level.

Quote
I have a level 1 Char casting at CL 6. 1 + 1 Spellgifted +1 Fiery Burst + 3 Reserves of Strength. 6d4 Burning hands at 1st level.  
Though your argument would get rid of Fieryburst, I'd likely go Bloodline of Fire (+2 on fire descriptor spells) and Reserves of Strength.
 Spellgifted is a trait, so if allowed then it gets to 6d6 and on or the other were denied for being cross realm or something we'd go into spell thematics mostly likely.
Flaws would tip it quite a bit as well, but since its not on the list we'll consider other things.

Versitile Spellcaster I wouldn't think works because you don't have the spell already prepared, it would have to be cast on the spot, so to speak so Winters Blast wouldn't find anything when it checks imo. Ymmv.

Makes the burning you do death route look better.
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2011, 10:31:50 PM »
(edit: I stopped this post and started googling, it is a higly debated thing, so I'll withdraw it as we don't need questionable things to solo with the wizard)
Yeah it is. One side (obliviously the side I'm on) points out the two already mentioned passages in the feat and the illogical concept of saying it does give 2nd level spellcasting since at the moment of saying you have such the feat changes into only granting a bonus spell slot (which it's self isn't enough to cast a spell). The other side is busy using google's define:ability to make their case. *shurgs* To me, it's actually less against intent to say "Choose one 2nd-level spell from a school of magic you have access to" means you only need access to the school of magic, not the chosen spell, and thus you can pick up Fire Shuriken and abuse the hell out of shurikens that deal 3d6 fire per hit at level one. I'm also inclined to mentioned a Spontaneous Summoning Conjurer 1 with Versatile Spellcaster can take Winter's Blast (summon spells are sub typed based on creature summoned) with a flaw or Racial Bonus Feat and not only everyone agree on it, but there is no rule conflict and Sage quotes lean towards agreeing it works.

Reserves of Strength is an excellent alternative as well, it requires Iron Will though. And dazes you for using it (or deals 5d6 damage for a +3 CL boost if immune to daze).
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Nachofan99

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2011, 10:34:28 PM »
Isn't this available starting at level 1?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9838.0

If not theoretically possible, with few practical problems a level 3 Wizard could do that.

Endarire

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2011, 03:14:20 AM »
Doubly-flawed Strongheart Halfling Wizard (Conjurer)1, going Conjurer5/Malconvoker8/Paragnostic Apostle1/Full Casting6

1: {Aggressive}, {Murky-Eyed}, {Shaky}
1: [Abrupt Jaunt], [Augment Summoning], [Ban Enchantment & Necromancy]
1: Improved Initiative, Heighten Spell, Metamagic School Focus: Conjuration, Summon Elemental
3: Spell Focus: Conjuration
5: [Domain Granted Power: Travel]
6: [Extended summons with a Bluff check], Rashemi Elemental Summoning (if it applies to Summon Elemental) OR Augment Elemental (if not)
7: ...
8: Skill Focus: Bluff
9: [+2 weapon damage +2 HP/HD for your summons with a Bluff check], Quicken Spell
10: [One additional summonling with a Bluff check]
11: ...
12: [+2 Will saves on summonlings with a Bluff check], Augment Elemental OR Rashemi Elemental Summoning
13: [+2 HD cap on planar binding spells to bind (Evil) creatures]
14: [Summonlings get Fast Healing 5]
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

SorO_Lost

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2011, 03:25:56 AM »
Doubly-flawed Strongheart Halfling Wizard (Conjurer)1, going Conjurer5/Malconvoker8/Paragnostic Apostle1/Full Casting6
1: {Aggressive}, {Murky-Eyed}, {Shaky}
1: [Abrupt Jaunt], [Augment Summoning], [Ban Enchantment & Necromancy]
1: Improved Initiative, Heighten Spell, Metamagic School Focus: Conjuration, Summon Elemental
Metamagic School Focus only lowers metamagic costs by 1. So you can Heighten a Cantrip to 2nd level using a 1st level slot.

Summon Elemental wants 4th level spells, not 2nd.
You are short by a bit there.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Endarire

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2011, 03:35:54 AM »
I see nothing preventing me from using Metamagic School Focus more than once on Heighten.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

BeholderSlayer

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2011, 10:13:16 AM »
I see nothing preventing me from using Metamagic School Focus more than once on Heighten.
I see nothing allowing it.

*facepalm*

Furthermore, it states that 3x/day you may reduce by ONE level A (singular) spell. In other words, you can only use it once on any particular spell cast at any given time. That's the RAW.
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2011, 03:44:28 PM »
I see nothing preventing me from using Metamagic School Focus more than once on Heighten.
I see nothing allowing it.

*facepalm*

Furthermore, it states that 3x/day you may reduce by ONE level A (singular) spell. In other words, you can only use it once on any particular spell cast at any given time. That's the RAW.
+1

Honestly Endarire, that was just... Bad. You never validate anything by saying "well the rules don't say no".
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2011, 05:57:48 PM »
Solo play needs a handout from the DM a little too often, for my tastes.



Trying to make it CO kosher, needs a get out of jail free type effect.
Contact Other Plane, or Contingency w/ big teleport ... feels about right.

Or nerf the game down to 4e levels, and set up a hyper-paranoid kiter build.

awaken DM golem

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2011, 07:49:03 PM »
Or ... you could use Lesser Planar to get that weird dippy
Genie (idk) that has Planar (FrankT mentions it on occasion)
and use that to get an Efreeti, of course.

But no loop, means you have a surly buddy and "just" 3 little wishes.
That ought to take care of most problems, excepting poor wording.

Amadi

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2011, 09:46:51 AM »
Share Soulmeld, Acid Spittle, Azurin. IIRC, you get 2d6 ranged touch at-will at level 1, which is then shared with your animal companion. This makes for a pretty neat combination of spewing acid around. At level 3, combine with Acquire Familiar, so you get two familiars. (There's nothing saying that you can't take it if you already have one familiar, so more the merrier).

Pewpewpewpewpew.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Wizard: Minimum level to solo adventures made for a balanced party?
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2011, 02:41:33 PM »
Soloing at low levels is easy, because mules are cheap. :D Seriously... 8 gold pieces each, and almost as good as a riding dog in combat. Use one as a mount, and run away on it while you sick the other ones on your hapless enemies. Play a small race and hide inside a trunk on its back or something, so the enemies won't even know you're there as they're trampled to death by your mule stampede.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]