Author Topic: Quick Fix for Paladin  (Read 3113 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

kurashu

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
  • K?
    • Androgynous Moose Hippy
    • Email
Quick Fix for Paladin
« on: July 03, 2011, 09:30:05 PM »
Would you guys be so kind to help me determine the power of this paladin fix. To help put it in context, the only other divine casters allowed are favored souls (which gain access to domain only spells from their deities's and cast these spells with a +2 CL) and spirit shamans and rangers (which gain both TWF and ranged fighting styles and and a full caster level with all spells known and spontaneous casting).

Quote
Paladins can be any alignment. They know all spells on their list and cast with a caster level equal to their paladin level. Charisma is the casting stat for paladins(determining DCs, granted spells and bonus spells). Their smite becomes just Smite. You deal damage equal to your paladin level against the target. They lose their detect evil, special mount and remove disease. Instead they gain access to a domain granted by their deity at level 1 and again at levels 6, 11 and 16. They gain the domain power and spells. Paladins can not cast spells with an alignment opposite of theirs. The following spells are added to the paladin's list:

1: Bane, Corrupt Weapon, Curse Water, Inflict Light Wounds, Protection from Good/Law
2: Darkness, Inflict Moderate Wounds
3: Blindness/Deafness, Deeper Darkness, Inflict Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Good/Law
4: Anarchic/Axiomatic/Unholy Sword, Dispel Good/Law, Freedom of Movement, Inflict Critical Wounds, Poison

EjoThims

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1945
  • The Ferret
    • Email
Re: Quick Fix for Paladin
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 03:48:21 PM »
Would you guys be so kind to help me determine the power of this paladin fix. To help put it in context, the only other divine casters allowed are favored souls (which gain access to domain only spells from their deities's and cast these spells with a +2 CL) and spirit shamans and rangers (which gain both TWF and ranged fighting styles and and a full caster level with all spells known and spontaneous casting).

Quote
Paladins can be any alignment. They know all spells on their list and cast with a caster level equal to their paladin level. Charisma is the casting stat for paladins(determining DCs, granted spells and bonus spells). Their smite becomes just Smite. You deal damage equal to your paladin level against the target. They lose their detect evil, special mount and remove disease. Instead they gain access to a domain granted by their deity at level 1 and again at levels 6, 11 and 16. They gain the domain power and spells. Paladins can not cast spells with an alignment opposite of theirs. The following spells are added to the paladin's list:

1: Bane, Corrupt Weapon, Curse Water, Inflict Light Wounds, Protection from Good/Law
2: Darkness, Inflict Moderate Wounds
3: Blindness/Deafness, Deeper Darkness, Inflict Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Good/Law
4: Anarchic/Axiomatic/Unholy Sword, Dispel Good/Law, Freedom of Movement, Inflict Critical Wounds, Poison

Sounds good and simple.

Surreal

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1430
    • Email
Re: Quick Fix for Paladin
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 06:50:43 AM »
I would leave the mount in.
---
"The late, sedate, and no to great." ~Surreal

Some Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc.
Archived version of the above with working links

The Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them
The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis

Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category
Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities
Alternative Class Features
alternative ways to get class skills

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: Quick Fix for Paladin
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2011, 07:39:00 AM »
I would leave the mount in.
Could be worth making it animal companion power, but with the pokeball function and limited to rideables.
Or turn it into a magic weapon.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

kurashu

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
  • K?
    • Androgynous Moose Hippy
    • Email
Re: Quick Fix for Paladin
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 01:17:06 PM »
I think the magic weapon would be a better weapon. My party hates keeping track of animals. Even horses are a pain for them. The sorcerer immediately asked me, "What can I get instead of a stupid cat that's not a stupid toad?" I'd let him keep the special mount if he choose to, but I doubt it.

Hmm, something like:

Beginning at 5th level, a paladin wielding his deity's favored weapon gains a +1 sacred (if he is good or neutral) or profane (if he is evil) bonus  on attack and damage rolls and can overcome damage reduction related to his alignment. This increases by 1 for ever 5 additional levels he has (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th and +4 at 20th).

So my group's NG Warforged Pally of Gond gains a +1 Sacred Bonus at 5th level and can overcome DR X/good. Sound fair or am I placing too much power here?

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: Quick Fix for Paladin
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 01:42:11 PM »
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

EjoThims

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1945
  • The Ferret
    • Email
Re: Quick Fix for Paladin
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2011, 06:36:38 PM »
Sound fair or am I placing too much power here?

Little weak, actually, if you're comparing to the mechanical value of the mount, which I had assumed you were removing just because it was not used by the group in question.

I'd go with something more like this if you wanted to replace the combat effectiveness.

starts at level 3 as a +1 enhancement bonus. It increases by +1 for every two levels, to max of +9 at level 19. You can apply any weapon special ability, but must still follow all applicable rules. It takes 24 hours of rest to change the bonuses you cause. Any weapons you wield (as long as they are a favored weapon of your deity or cause), gain the same bonuses. Enhancement bonuses don't stack, of course, but special abilities would.

At 11th level makes weapons you wield (even if not favored weapon) overcome DR as aligned with both aspects of your alignment (choose one extreme of the axis for a neutral aspect).