Author Topic: Spontaneous Wizard build  (Read 4922 times)

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BeholderSlayer

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Spontaneous Wizard build
« on: July 03, 2011, 01:49:34 PM »
Looking for feedback for this monster. I know there's not a whole lot I can do wrong by mixing SCM/Incantrix, but maybe I should change the order of a few things. I kinda like the current progression, though, as it works out and makes some roleplaying sense (focus on Illusions, then focus on other schools and metamagic, then focus on metamagic).

The idea is to try and get a wizard to be as close to a spontaneous caster as possible without going into Beholder Mage cheese. Yeah, I realize that I'm bordering on that power already, but not quite there thanks to that class's 10 spells/round and fully spontaneous casting. I also don't quite get there until level 20, anyway.

I will be using the SCM alternative racial suggestion.

1 - Illusionist (Evocation, Enchantment): Spell Focus: Illusion, Earth Sense (Flaw), Heighten Spell (Flaw), Spell Mastery (Human Bonus feat), Improved Initiative (Martial Wizard variant)
2 - Illusionist:
3 - Illusionist: Earth Spell (Flaw)
4 - Illusionist: Iron Will (Otyugh Hole)
5 - Illusionist: Spontaneous Divination
6 - Shadowcraft Mage: Uncanny Forethought
7 - Shadowcraft Mage
8 - Shadowcraft Mage
9 - Shadowcraft Mage: Cooperative Spell
10 - Shadowcraft Mage
11 - Mage of the Arcane Order
12 - Mage of the Arcane Order: Signature Spell: Silent Image, Extend Spell
13 - Mage of the Arcane Order
14 - Mage of the Arcane Order
15 - Mage of the Arcane Order: Versatile Spellcaster
16 - Mage of the Arcane Order:
17 - Mage of the Arcane Order
18 - Incantrix (Necromancy): Persist Spell
19 - Incantrix
20 - Incantrix

The obvious idea is to load up my daily spell list with spells that I may need and empty slots, then drop spells or use empty slots for Silent Image as needed. More empty slots are available to spontaneously use through MotAO as well. In the end, it's kindof like a wizard that barely needs to prepare any spells in the morning, but has access to all kinds of things given time. Yeah, I know it's a game-smashing monster, but it looks like a good time. :)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 12:55:47 PM by BeholderSlayer »
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2011, 02:21:41 PM »
Oh, and before anybody says it, I'm not going to tread the waters of Arcane Disciple: Luck. I think the RAW is too ambiguous to say for certain that it allows for XP-free miracles. Everyone knows the arguments behind that statement, so I'm not going to rehash the argument here and derail the thread.

That being said, if the opportunity were available I would probably swap Arcane Mastery for Arcane Disciple: Luck.
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WarlockLord

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2011, 07:03:29 PM »
Looks good to me.  What kind of feedback do you want?

Tshern

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2011, 07:19:32 PM »
Doesn't Signature spell require Spell mastery?

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sir_argenon

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2011, 07:35:53 PM »
Doesn't Signature spell require Spell mastery?

its already in there @ first level.

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2011, 08:07:11 PM »
No Magelord? Or Versatile Spellcaster? I'd also want Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment).
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Endarire

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2011, 08:27:37 PM »
Is Wiz5 there for Spontaneous Divination?  You can get into Shadowcraft goodness sooner via Heighten Spell and Metamagic School Focus: Illusion.  You can qualify for SCM @2 if you get past the skill reqs.
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2011, 12:11:41 AM »
Note: Uncanny Forthought lets you reserve a number of spell slots for a masted spell, you are looking at Silent Image. It's a trap, drop it.
Reserve slots by preparing Heightened Silent Image instead. It frees up two feat slots.

So with that in mind.
1: Abyssal Focused Specialist Wizard 1, Spell Focus: Illusion, Earth SenseF, Heighten SpellF, Spell Mastery(silent image)H, Improved InitiativeB.
2: Abyssal Focused Specialist Wizard 2
3: Abyssal Focused Specialist Wizard 3, Earth Spell.
4: Abyssal Focused Specialist Wizard 4
5: Abyssal Focused Specialist Wizard 5, Spontaneous DivinationSub.
6: Abyssal Focused Specialist Wizard 6, Versatile Spellcaster.
7: Abyssal Focused Specialist Wizard 7
8: Abyssal Focused Specialist Wizard 8
9: Abyssal Focused Specialist Wizard 9, Uncanny Forethought.
10: Abyssal Focused Specialist Wizard 10, Planar Spell Casting(chaos)Sub.
11: Shadowcraft Mage 1
12: Shadowcraft Mage 2, Chaotic Spell Recall, Retrain Spell Mastery & Uncanny Forethought for Primordial Scion & Cloak Of The Obyrith.
13: Shadowcraft Mage 3
14: Shadowcraft Mage 4
15: Shadowcraft Mage 5, Iron Will.
16: Incantatrix 1, Extend Spell.
17: Incantatrix 2
18: Incantatrix 3, Precognitive Visions.
19: Incantatrix 4, Persist Spell.
20: Incantatrix 5

Abyssal Focus: [Chaotic], [Compulsion], [Darkness], [Evil], and [Fear] is your "specialist school".
Focused Specialist: Lose 1 spell slot, gain two of specialist school.
Planar Spell Casting(chaos): Every spell you have is [Chaotic], and gains +1 to save DCs.
Abyssal Heritor
-Cloak Of The Obyrith: DR (heritor+1=5)/Law.
-Precognitive Visions: (heritor/2=2) selections from a list. Gain +1 insight to choices.
-Primordial Scion: +((heritor/4)+1=2)d6 damage on all attacks to lawful creatures.
-Chaotic Spell Recall: (heritor/2=2) times per day you can recall any [Chaotic] spell.

Basically, you trade MotAO's 3/day anyspell and your next to worthless Uncanny Forethought for two additional spells slots for each level and an extra two up-to-9th-level spells recalled on the fly (doesn't have to be silent image). Extra Spell Slots which in turn will power Versatilel Spellcaster (see below). Further you are not prohibited from casting any spell, because any spell you cast is [Chaotic] and thus part of your focused school. Depending on how liberal you take Her spells gain the indicated alignment descriptor., you could even go as far as ignoring the concept of prohibited spells.

Finally, even if this build doesn't appeal to you, one of the feats listed may be really useful to you. If you (and your DM) feels Spontaneous Divination counts as being able to Spontaneously Cast Spells. Versatile Spellcaster let's you cast any spell you know, example fuse two 5th slots together to cast any 6th level spell in your spellbook on the fly.

Edit: The MiC (or some Ebberon book) has a cross bow that channels ray spells though it. Scion used in conjunction with it can augment damage with nondamaging spells. Much like a Snowcast/Flash Frost combo, but only with rays (and touch spells I think) against lawful targets. Chaos Shuffling would let you drop Improved Initiative for Fell Drain too. :)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 12:19:08 AM by SorO_Lost »
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

BeholderSlayer

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2011, 03:39:44 AM »
Uncanny Forethought also lets you cast ANY spell you know out of one of your empty slots, but it instead takes a full-round action rather than a standard action. Your mastered spell may be cast as a standard action with no caster level loss. While Silent Image is the bread-and-butter, UF does allow for further spontaneity by allowing me to keep slots open and cast any utility spell that I may need and not have memorized. Granted the caster level is reduced for that certain spell, but that's not an especially big deal. If all that Uncanny Forethought did was allow me to cast Silent Image from an empty slot, it'd be completely redundant with Signature Spell. However, that's not what it does, it basically allows me to keep my INT modifier of slots empty and cast literally any spell I know of that level and lower out of it as a full-round action at CL-2.

Also, where is the rule that Spellpool can only be used 3/day? I looked for it and couldn't find it, but maybe I just missed it. The only limitation I can find is that the spell levels for the day must be equal or lower than one-half your caster level, rounded down.

Versatile Spellcaster was another thing I was considering, I might go for that.

Sor0, let me do some reading up on that build and maybe I'll do that instead. I'm not particularly familiar with the Abyssal Specialist, although I did notice it in your handbook. I threw this together in about 20 minutes this morning, so I'll study up on the possibilities.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 04:07:07 AM by BeholderSlayer »
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Bard

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2011, 08:01:08 AM »
How can you enter Shadowcraft Mage being of a race that is not a gnome? (Since you have 4 feats at level one and I'm not aware of any gnome race that has that)
Also I might suggest the wizard substitution level for Gnome Illusionists
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spacemonkey555

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2011, 08:05:05 AM »
How can you enter Shadowcraft Mage being of a race that is not a gnome? (Since you have 4 feats at level one and I'm not aware of any gnome race that has that)
Also I might suggest the wizard substitution level for Gnome Illusionists

Quote
Adaptation: A cabal of nongnome illusionists could certainly use this prestige class; simply replace the racial requirement with a requirement that shadowcraft mages be members of the cabal.

Agita

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2011, 08:05:32 AM »
Uncanny Forethought also lets you cast ANY spell you know out of one of your empty slots, but it instead takes a full-round action rather than a standard action. Your mastered spell may be cast as a standard action with no caster level loss. While Silent Image is the bread-and-butter, UF does allow for further spontaneity by allowing me to keep slots open and cast any utility spell that I may need and not have memorized. Granted the caster level is reduced for that certain spell, but that's not an especially big deal. If all that Uncanny Forethought did was allow me to cast Silent Image from an empty slot, it'd be completely redundant with Signature Spell. However, that's not what it does, it basically allows me to keep my INT modifier of slots empty and cast literally any spell I know of that level and lower out of it as a full-round action at CL-2.
Spell Mastery is also not limited to just one spell. You can have up to Int modifier spells mastered.
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2011, 12:37:07 PM »
Uncanny Forethought also lets you cast ANY spell you know out of one of your empty slots, but it instead takes a full-round action rather than a standard action. Your mastered spell may be cast as a standard action with no caster level loss. While Silent Image is the bread-and-butter, UF does allow for further spontaneity by allowing me to keep slots open and cast any utility spell that I may need and not have memorized. Granted the caster level is reduced for that certain spell, but that's not an especially big deal. If all that Uncanny Forethought did was allow me to cast Silent Image from an empty slot, it'd be completely redundant with Signature Spell. However, that's not what it does, it basically allows me to keep my INT modifier of slots empty and cast literally any spell I know of that level and lower out of it as a full-round action at CL-2.
Spell Mastery is also not limited to just one spell. You can have up to Int modifier spells mastered.
Ya know, since I usually only take it to get to Signature Spell with an SCM, I always forget about this. ALWAYS. Thanks for the reminder.

I might want to move the feat to later, in this case.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 12:40:18 PM by BeholderSlayer »
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Agita

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2011, 12:41:49 PM »
Uncanny Forethought also lets you cast ANY spell you know out of one of your empty slots, but it instead takes a full-round action rather than a standard action. Your mastered spell may be cast as a standard action with no caster level loss. While Silent Image is the bread-and-butter, UF does allow for further spontaneity by allowing me to keep slots open and cast any utility spell that I may need and not have memorized. Granted the caster level is reduced for that certain spell, but that's not an especially big deal. If all that Uncanny Forethought did was allow me to cast Silent Image from an empty slot, it'd be completely redundant with Signature Spell. However, that's not what it does, it basically allows me to keep my INT modifier of slots empty and cast literally any spell I know of that level and lower out of it as a full-round action at CL-2.
Spell Mastery is also not limited to just one spell. You can have up to Int modifier spells mastered.
Ya know, since I usually only take it to get to Signature Spell with an SCM, I always forget about this. ALWAYS. Thanks for the reminder.

I might want to move the feat to later, in this case.
Well, if allowed, you should be able to retrain it to itself as your Int mod rises to upgrade it.
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2011, 12:54:45 PM »
Uncanny Forethought also lets you cast ANY spell you know out of one of your empty slots, but it instead takes a full-round action rather than a standard action. Your mastered spell may be cast as a standard action with no caster level loss. While Silent Image is the bread-and-butter, UF does allow for further spontaneity by allowing me to keep slots open and cast any utility spell that I may need and not have memorized. Granted the caster level is reduced for that certain spell, but that's not an especially big deal. If all that Uncanny Forethought did was allow me to cast Silent Image from an empty slot, it'd be completely redundant with Signature Spell. However, that's not what it does, it basically allows me to keep my INT modifier of slots empty and cast literally any spell I know of that level and lower out of it as a full-round action at CL-2.
Spell Mastery is also not limited to just one spell. You can have up to Int modifier spells mastered.
Ya know, since I usually only take it to get to Signature Spell with an SCM, I always forget about this. ALWAYS. Thanks for the reminder.

I might want to move the feat to later, in this case.
Well, if allowed, you should be able to retrain it to itself as your Int mod rises to upgrade it.
True, this makes sense. I had already changed the build, but I'll change it back because I did like it the way it was.
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2011, 01:44:47 PM »
Uncanny Forethought also lets you cast ANY spell you know out of one of your empty slots, <snip> Also, where is the rule that Spellpool can only be used 3/day? <snip> Versatile Spellcaster was another thing I was considering, I might go for that.

Sor0, let me do some reading up on that build and maybe I'll do that instead. I'm not particularly familiar with the Abyssal Specialist, although I did notice it in your handbook. I threw this together in about 20 minutes this morning, so I'll study up on the possibilities.
Uncanny Forethought: I forgot, I wasn't all here yesterday. Srsly, it's the 4th why am I here this morning?
MotAO: My post say 3/day. Updated it, thanks for the correction.
Versatile Spellcaster: Didn't update that into the 1st post, probably should do that.

Abyssal Specialist simply lets you specialize in a few subtypes of spells. Normally it would kind of suck, but the Planar Sub adds [Chaotic] to all your spells thus making every spell you know/cast into part of your specialist field of study. Which also means once a spell is known to you, regardless if it's prohibited, you can cast it. A cheesy tactic would be write a full spellbook then retrain into a Specialist Wizard, which would mean you know a few prohibited spells but are unable to cast them (until level 10). Likewise, you can cast prohibited from Runestaffs & Divinestaffs since their spells behave as if you cast them (you probably shouldn't quote me on this today, can check later).

With those relaxed limits on what you can cast and Versatile Spellcaster & Shadowcraft Mage poping spells at lower levels, it prompts an overall loss in terms of power. IE at level 10, burning all your 5th level slots for various spontaneous 4th level spells, the Sorcerer is better than you. Which is why I mentioned Focused Specialist. In total it adds one spell slot of each level and so does standard specializing. It's simply more slots for more power which can run those costly effects.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

BeholderSlayer

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2011, 01:52:59 PM »
I am considering changing out MotAO for levels in Abyssal Focused Specialist as the base, then using Chaotic Spell Recall with Persistent Unfettered Heroism to charge it instead of bothering with Heritor feats on an already feat-intensive build. The problem is that dropping MotAO only saves me 1 feat, and I'd need two feats to get to Chaotic Spell Recall.

I'd have to go completely hog-wild to accomplish it. Namely, I'd have to DCFS Improved Initiative to a heritor feat, then grab Chaotic Spell recall in place of Cooperative Spell.

I'd also gain 2 character levels to play with. Probably Incantrix for the meta, and maybe Nightmare Spinner for the spell slots?

The downside to this strategy is that Chaotic Spell Recall specifies that you can only recall spells that you have prepared and cast, and a large number of spells this character has cast will not have been prepared. I can see the possibilities of the Abyssal Specialist route, they are really sweet. However, it doesn't accomplish spontaneity, specifically. Although you may recall any spell using CSR, you still are essentially re-preparing a spell. Don't get me wrong, that is a route that is made of pure win and awesome, but I'm not convinced it's exactly what I'm going for with this character. I will mull it over a bit, though. Being able to recall and swap out spells that I do cast after memorizing them is, indeed, quite awesome.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 01:54:39 PM by BeholderSlayer »
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

BeholderSlayer

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Re: Spontaneous Wizard build
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2011, 02:03:21 PM »
Oh, and somehow I forgot Hathran with an Acorn of Far Travel...hmmmmmmmmm  :lol Shit, I can ditch the Acorn and use Persistent Unfettered Heroism as long as I take the class far enough to get Universal Spirit Magic. Ugly. Gain Circle Magic...super ugly.

Looks like this one might need a massive rewrite, though Hathran pretty much erases the need for Shadowcraft Mage, and pretty much everything else. It's like saying "Hi, I'm a walking spellbook that conducted Circle Magic today. Care to die?"
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 02:16:44 PM by BeholderSlayer »
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]