Author Topic: Avatar d20 fixes  (Read 61099 times)

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dman11235

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #300 on: October 16, 2008, 03:37:38 PM »
Well, that's why I need to read them again.  I'm not entirely sure anymore where they stand.  That's why the qualifier "if" is there.
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AstralFire

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #301 on: October 18, 2008, 01:37:07 PM »
If you have updated, I'll give it a once over later today after I do some arena work.  Then if we're ready: off to the arena!

Been busy with job stuff. I'll compile a list of changes later I think... going to spend the weekend at Zuki's for now though.


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dman11235

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #302 on: October 18, 2008, 01:43:28 PM »
It's alright, things came up, and I was only able to finish up the arena and a couple other things that came before this.  So by two days from now I'll be able to read through it again.
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Bajaaku

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #303 on: October 24, 2008, 02:05:56 PM »
Any word on the status of the next update? It's been awhile since anyone posted. I ended up pretty busy over my short break so I didn't really get anything done. :(

dman11235

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #304 on: October 25, 2008, 12:26:22 AM »
That's because I've been busy.  I opened today and it was a long day, and the next few days will be rough, but hopefully in a week I'll be able to finish a full look through.  Don't get your hopes up though, I open on Sunday, filter the fryers on Monday, and do a double on Tuesday, but I do have two days off on Wednesday and Thursday.
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AstralFire

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #305 on: October 25, 2008, 11:12:54 AM »
I have been incredibly, bed-riddenly sick the last week. BTW, hallucinations are not as fun as cartoons make them seem.


Avatar: The Last d20 Supplement
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Bajaaku

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #306 on: October 25, 2008, 03:40:12 PM »
Sorry to hear that AF, hope you get well soon.

dman11235

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #307 on: October 31, 2008, 09:56:39 PM »
First off, some bad news.  Unless one of us (me, probably) wants to code this whole thing to BG code, we can't enter it into the arena.  The entrants need to be in BG code so it can be quoted and copied into the accepted homebrews thread.

Then some good news!  We can run a playtest specifically for this system, with the PCs only using a bending class and the enemies being normal*.  If someone wants to run a campaign for this, I call water!

And some more good news........duh dun dun dah!  I will go over this whole thing....tonight.  And tomorrow if I don't get done, but I managed to review two classes and a bunch of feats and maneuvers yesterday in the span of one hour, so I have my hopes up a little.
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dman11235

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #308 on: November 01, 2008, 12:58:05 AM »
I'd remove the requirement to learn forms.  It's silly.  The minimum bending skill requirement.  You aren't going to take a seed if you can't reliably make the DC.

Overbending still irks me a bit.  It needs to stay, but it needs to go.  It's simultaneously too crippling to use, but without it this becomes overpowered easily.  It still confuses me and makes me want to shoot it.

Agitate Dust still needs that method to overcome stronger winds I feel.  Otherwise, it might get overwhelmed by other abilities.  But you know what?  I say leave it for now.

Change Flowing Air Strike to -5% concealment for every 4 you use.

Heavenly Stride seems a tad weak.  Not sure though.

reduce Shockwave to +10 exceed to increase damage.  That will yield at level 20 2d6/BL for  a still potent ability, but not over the top on damage.

Soundbending (Windwhisper) needs an action to move the area.  I say it is part of the maintain action.

Twister needs a direction and distance to throw targets.  60' and use a thrown weapon chart to determine direction (1d8 clockwise) seems reasonable.

What does Wind Barrier do again?  It currently does...nothing of note.  I allows people to make a reflex save to move 5'!  And that one augment does something!  But the base seed does nothing.  Was it supposed to be a copy of Water Shield (or whatever it is)?

Earth:

Armor: You realize that this seed negates class features, right?  The wis to AC one in particular?  Have it count as medium armor for everything but class features (counts as no armor for that) and it will be fine.

Dust Cloud: see Agitate Dust.  Also, Sandswallow seems to negate the need for the other base part of this.

Fire:

claw of the Phoenix is too much damage.  That's 4d6/BL eventually.  Granted it is a full-round action, but I fear it may be a tad too much.

Combustion and Explosion need work.  Not sure what, but I do know that Combustion needs augments (and not a damage one), as does Explosion.

Heatwave needs a nauseating augment.  +10 should do the trick.  Possibly a DC increase augment as well, but I doubt it.

Pyrotechnics needs work as well, namely augments (everything should have an augment, to avoid making them increasingly useless at higher levels).

Sweeping Flames and company need discussion and work, we don't need three ways to attack an area with fire, awesome though it may be to attack things with fire.

Wall of Fire needs to do something other than catch people on fire.  That's 1d6/round max, so it's not all that hot.  It needs to either resist movement through it or deal damage or something.

Water:

Water Whip used to have +BL in damage.  I miss that.  That makes it actually deal something remotely viable.

Golems:

One thing I'm worried about: it can be hard to make this viable if you have to spend your actions making one other thing at a time and only being able to control one at a time.  So it needs to be a lot better than you (i.e., contribute more readily), or you need to be able to control more.  I vote for both: if you control one, it becomes a beast in melee, rivaling that of a totemist.  If you weaken it, you can control more, or retain actions.  So you can control one of moderate power (a little less than you) and still have a move action and swift to play with, or a really weak one (like 2/3 you) and still have a full round (use a swift to control it) or a strong one (125% of you) and spend a full round controlling it.

Feats:

Dextrous Combatant....I'm thinking that since it requires Weapon Finesse, we give it +dex to damage as well (not replace, but in addition to str)

The Combat Reflexes line.....is a little weak.  It's too many feats to expect someone to spend on this (feat intensive) style.  How about on the second one it's +wis to # of AoOs/round and +wis to damage, and the third one is infinite AoOs and +wis to attack and dex to damage.  Does that seem too much?

Intuitive Attack is one of those feats I hate (justifying a fighting style with a feat, rather than making the fighting style better), so I'm thinking wis to attack and damage.

Channeling Gauntlets are off in both price and what they give.  It should probably be a +1....+8 single steps rather than increments of 2.  Also, I can't find a pattern in it.  Finally, we need to talk about weapon special abilities and bending.  I think we should just offer the opportunity to be as good as weapon abilities without using them.  This means damage and enhancement bonus, basically, so a +8 eventual item will suffice (before epic, that is).
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dman11235

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #309 on: November 13, 2008, 12:37:32 AM »
You out there AF?
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dman11235

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #310 on: January 24, 2009, 11:46:30 AM »
Heh, it's been over two months.  If I don't catch word of you AF before my birthday, I'm going to be sad and create a new thread that will house the entire project (introduction, air, earth, fire, water, bending overview, air, earth, fire, water, golem feats and skills, equipment), so that I can actually change things and so that I can submit it to the Arena.
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bogsnes

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #311 on: February 03, 2009, 05:16:20 PM »
Why is all of them based on wisdom?
Fire looks more like Cha material, Air like Int, but Water and Earth should probably still be

dman11235

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #312 on: February 03, 2009, 07:07:47 PM »
Because they are all perception based.  Most every martial art is heavily influenced by perception, especially the oriental ones, which the styles in the show are all based on.
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Bajaaku

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #313 on: August 04, 2009, 08:54:11 PM »
I hate to be a topic necromancer, but I felt it best to reply in this topic. Is anyone still working on this or is it considered complete? I had stopped following it for awhile after some people quit posting, but after seeing the trailer to the upcoming live-action Last Airbender movie (directed by M. Night Shaymalan) I felt the urge to try an "Avatar" campaign again. Anyone have a status update?

Again, sorry for rezing a dead topic. I've just been missing it.

dman11235

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #314 on: August 04, 2009, 10:48:53 PM »
Yeah, I'm workin' on it.  It's currently on hold until after I get some misc. projects done, which come after the Magic of Origins variant magic system and campaign setting gets done.  Which was slated for September, but I'm not gonna make that....
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OrangeJulius

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #315 on: September 01, 2009, 09:06:34 AM »
So, I've basically read through every thread about this (GitP and here) and read the most recent PDF and I'm dying to play it.  I've had one problem though.  I cannot wrap my head around the whole thing with the augmentation pool.  There has got to be a better way to explain it.  I can't be the only one who can't understand it.  Just thought I'd say.  I've read the "System One" and "System Alpha" discussion over and over and I get that, but then the term "augmentation pool" pops up and I'm just lost.

I'd also like to help on anything that anyone needs help on.  So, yeah, if this thread is still at all alive, that'd be cool.

I'd also just like to say thanks for putting so much of your time into this you guys.

Bajaaku

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #316 on: September 04, 2009, 08:35:35 PM »
Glad to see that people are still interested in this. I have to re-read the pdf so I can remember the mechanics, but I can explain the augmentation pool. The augmentation pool is simply the amount by which you exceed the base DC of a bending seed. This amount can be used to augment abilities as specified in their descriptions. For example, let's say I'm a firebender and I want to use the Fire Spin seed. The base DC is 15. I make my bending check and it happens to be 17. That means not only does my check pass, but I have 2 points in my augmentation pool (17-15 = 2). I can use those 2 points to increase the damage by 1d6 in this example. I do not have enough points, however, to increase the radius of the seed as that augment requires 5 points. Does that make sense now?

Also another thing to note: The GitP and the Brilliantgameologist Avatar d20 projects, while similar, are separate from each other and differ in several fundamental ways. If I remember correctly, the original project started on GitP and in that version the bending skill was an actual skill that the play would invest points into as they leveled. This version split off from that one and uses Bending Level + Wis Mod as the bending "skill." I personally like the mechanics in this project better, which is why I'm working on this one instead of the other. I haven't seen the old project in awhile, but I think their seed system differs as well. Certain checks might also be different. I can't remember all of the details. I just know that I found this version more balanced and intuitive.

EDIT: dman, let me know your thoughts on this. I think we might want to start a new topic for this project, starting with a re-post of the current PDF. That way the topic can be cleaned up a bit.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 08:42:09 PM by Bajaaku »

vermithrx

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #317 on: September 05, 2009, 04:12:15 AM »
Having just finished reading the thread, I'd also like to help get this project moving again. I notice you can still get access to the PDF through a link in AstralFire's sig, so I'm going to start reading through it to see where things left off on that front.

I have some ideas I'd like to throw out related to the pseudo-recent discussion involving Firebenders and Airbenders needing more seeds. I don't have anything written out yet, but here's a few concepts:

-For the firebenders, Smoke and Mirrors... literaly. There's a lot you can do with smoke, from asphyxiation to concealment to suffocation. Also, Lightbending is a logical next step after what's already been done with Cold Fire, Pyrotechnics and Heat Mirage. I see darkness, controlled illusions and invisibility on the horizon (though I'm probably getting into epic difficulty on that last one).

-On Airbenders, they could get more involved in kinetic and potential energy. From a paradigm in which the Airbender is thickening and thining the air (in the spirit of Breathstealer and Sound Waves), localized increases in barometric pressure could be used hamper a target's movements or wear them out by simulating the lack of oxygen at higher altitudes. (The opposite could be done to make things easier on allies as well.)

Sorry if that's a little vague. If we actually get a response from dman(fibonacci), AstralFire, or get a new thread started anyway, I'll get to writing some seeds and commenting on what's been done so far. Here's to hoping I'm not too late to help out. *crosses fingers*

OrangeJulius

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #318 on: September 05, 2009, 04:52:12 AM »
I get it now.  I was just confused because at one point in the PDF it sounded like you decide before you roll, but that didn't really make sense to me as a concept.  But now it makes complete sense.  That's what I though it was, but I didn't want to have it wrong, so thanks for explaining it.

I like the lightbending idea.  I mean, if the firebender could change the heat of the air enough to change the index of refraction noticeably (as with the mirage) then potentially I could see that becoming a lot more useful in specific close range.  Maybe not invisibility, per se, because that would take far too much precision, but maybe something like illusion columns where there are several columns of wavy light from heat moving around (5ft by 5ft each, of course) and the firebender is in one and can move to others when they cross, so it's like guessing game for the attacker.  It'd be a higher level thing, I think, but I could see something being worked around making the firebender harder to hit based on heat manipulation.

Maybe instead of airbenders being able to make people move slower or whatever by changing pressure it could be waterbenders manipulating the humidity by ridiculous amounts with an AoE thing.  Reduces base land speed within the AoE and they take a -2 penalty to hit and damage with basically all weapons?  Augmentations could increase that to -3 or make the AoE bigger.  I dunno.  I'm just throwing ideas out there.

dman11235

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Re: Avatar d20 fixes
« Reply #319 on: September 06, 2009, 12:28:39 AM »
Thanks for posting, it helped me get around to this announcement.  As of a couple days ago, I've stopped work on conversion of the coding until further notice.  Other, bigger projects are taking up much of my time.  I'm not gonna be able to do much in the way of other projects either, so it's not just this.  I'll get around to it eventually though, I promise.

This is still my baby though, as it's the first major project I've ever embarked on.  So I think I'll probably put this project ahead of MoO.

Oh, btw, call me dman.

Quote
Also another thing to note: The GitP and the Brilliantgameologist Avatar d20 projects, while similar, are separate from each other and differ in several fundamental ways. If I remember correctly, the original project started on GitP and in that version the bending skill was an actual skill that the play would invest points into as they leveled. This version split off from that one and uses Bending Level + Wis Mod as the bending "skill." I personally like the mechanics in this project better, which is why I'm working on this one instead of the other. I haven't seen the old project in awhile, but I think their seed system differs as well. Certain checks might also be different. I can't remember all of the details. I just know that I found this version more balanced and intuitive.

Nailed it.  The GitP crew was being thick-headed with their project, and didn't want to make the mechanics smoother because they already had them in place, ignoring the fact that the only major things I changed were the DC values and the fact that it's not a skill anymore.  In other words, nothing much.  Oh, and the other major thing this affects?  Cross-setting play.  With their version, you only had the Avatar setting.  This version can be adapted to any setting, as it's designed with the base mechanics in mind.

Quote
I get it now.  I was just confused because at one point in the PDF it sounded like you decide before you roll, but that didn't really make sense to me as a concept.  But now it makes complete sense.  That's what I though it was, but I didn't want to have it wrong, so thanks for explaining it.

I'd have to look at it again to see what we decided on, but your confusion probably came from the fact that it used to be one way, and we changed it to the other.  Some words might not have changed.

Quote
I like the lightbending idea.  I mean, if the firebender could change the heat of the air enough to change the index of refraction noticeably (as with the mirage) then potentially I could see that becoming a lot more useful in specific close range.  Maybe not invisibility, per se, because that would take far too much precision, but maybe something like illusion columns where there are several columns of wavy light from heat moving around (5ft by 5ft each, of course) and the firebender is in one and can move to others when they cross, so it's like guessing game for the attacker.  It'd be a higher level thing, I think, but I could see something being worked around making the firebender harder to hit based on heat manipulation.

Maybe instead of airbenders being able to make people move slower or whatever by changing pressure it could be waterbenders manipulating the humidity by ridiculous amounts with an AoE thing.  Reduces base land speed within the AoE and they take a -2 penalty to hit and damage with basically all weapons?  Augmentations could increase that to -3 or make the AoE bigger.  I dunno.  I'm just throwing ideas out there.

These things, while good ideas, are hard to implement.  Goal of the project is to retain canon while having the mechanics be available to other settings, so the physics behind the forms are Avatar physics.  Also, simplicity plays a factor.  Can't get to complex, or it will be just as unplayable as it can get.  So, I'll think on it.  Later.  When I'm not designing a new game system.

EDIT:  Oh, and btw, I'm going to eventually combine the classes into one, and then either introduce two new classes based on the show to fill the void or just have one new class and the rest of the class related sections be class variants and such for existing classes.  Again, when I'm not designing a new game system.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 02:46:16 PM by dman11235 »
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