Author Topic: help me make true master of the shadows  (Read 4458 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

miz redavni

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • all your planets are belong to us
    • Email
help me make true master of the shadows
« on: June 28, 2011, 02:35:17 AM »
Ok so I'm trying to make the ultimate shadow assassin. I'm probably not looking hard enough but so far all I can find PrC wise is the shadowdancer.

I am currently in an all human campaign but the dm has given us free templates. I have 3 free lvls in vampire spawn from I believe libras mortus... I am so far just ninja 8 and am wanting to turn it into a master of shadows as in to fill the room with shadows where ever I am, to make shadows where ever I want, to be any where there are shadows, and to hurt others with shadows.

I would like my party and enemy to fear any and all shadows because all they can think about is me walking out or porting out, grabing them, taking them into the darkness disapearing and then making their mangled corpse reapear.

I guess id kindda like to be the boogieman.

Again, this is in an all human campaign. I am a lvl 8 ninja with 3 lvls in vampire spawn for free. I'm thinking about going into shadowdancer but there also should be more out there besides just that and I'm most likely somehow missing it.

Oh and I don't want this to be just another shadowpouncer build. So if you could help that would be great! :)

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2011, 03:15:30 AM »
See if your DM will allow this.

If not, I'd suggest a cloistered cleric/swordsage entering Master of Shrouds for a couple of levels, and then going into Shadowcraft Mage. It will be tight to pull off, and it is a spellcaster and not a rogue-ish character, but it should certainly strike fear in the heart of anyone who has any inkling of what it can do. ;) Both Master of Shrouds and Shadowcraft Mage have their own handbooks in the handbooks section that you should check out, if you're interested in those.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

miz redavni

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • all your planets are belong to us
    • Email
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2011, 03:32:53 AM »
See if your DM will allow this.

If not, I'd suggest a cloistered cleric/swordsage entering Master of Shrouds for a couple of levels, and then going into Shadowcraft Mage. It will be tight to pull off, and it is a spellcaster and not a rogue-ish character, but it should certainly strike fear in the heart of anyone who has any inkling of what it can do. ;) Both Master of Shrouds and Shadowcraft Mage have their own handbooks in the handbooks section that you should check out, if you're interested in those.

That's kind of what id like to do with my character and I'm txting my dm right now about it. It looks very fun... wait.. 15/10/10? That's weird shouldn't... wait.... ok it was really weird bab....

X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2011, 04:47:15 AM »
Rogue 5/Wizard 1/Unseen Seer 4/Swiftblade 10 (Sorcerer may be more appropriate in this case)

Notable Spells: Haste, Silent Image, Command Undead, (Deeper) Darkness, Dimension Door, Summon Undead V (sometimes a Shadow still just wins a fight, even at ECL 16 when you gain access to this spell).

Notable Feats: Uncanny Forethought.  With enough Int, you can basically cast all the spells from the above list spontaneously.

Feel free to replace 2 levels of Rogue with 2 levels of Monk, taking the Invisible Fist ACF from Exemplars of Evil and the Carmendine Monk feat from Champions of Valor.  There is also a feat in Dragon that I keeps going in and out of my mind that allows you to trade 1d6 SA damage for a +2 on attack rolls.  Combined with Power Attack, that feat is pure gold, given that it's even effective against enemies immune to SA damage.

miz redavni

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • all your planets are belong to us
    • Email
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 05:00:57 AM »
Rogue 5/Wizard 1/Unseen Seer 4/Swiftblade 10 (Sorcerer may be more appropriate in this case)

Notable Spells: Haste, Silent Image, Command Undead, (Deeper) Darkness, Dimension Door, Summon Undead V (sometimes a Shadow still just wins a fight, even at ECL 16 when you gain access to this spell).

Notable Feats: Uncanny Forethought.  With enough Int, you can basically cast all the spells from the above list spontaneously.

Feel free to replace 2 levels of Rogue with 2 levels of Monk, taking the Invisible Fist ACF from Exemplars of Evil and the Carmendine Monk feat from Champions of Valor.  There is also a feat in Dragon that I keeps going in and out of my mind that allows you to trade 1d6 SA damage for a +2 on attack rolls.  Combined with Power Attack, that feat is pure gold, given that it's even effective against enemies immune to SA damage.

The only problem is that I don't want to reroll my character becuase I have an emotional attachment to this character :/ and Its already a ninja 8 with 3 free lvls of vampire spawn. We have had god.... I believe around 30 sesions(did I spell that right? It doesn't look like it but it feels like I did) with these characters and me and my character have gone through A LOT together.

I want to progress my character not make a new one

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2011, 06:16:17 AM »
It's a shame you went for the Vampire thing... three LA is just enough for making a Shadow Dark creature, which would be awesomely full of shadows and virtually impossible to spot ever.  Anyway, you might want to rush into Unarmed Swordsage for the rest of the way.  The Shadow Hand school of maneuvers is perfect, including maneuvers that let you do things like teleport through shadows, shoot out garrotes made of shadows, and phase through walls.

JaronK

miz redavni

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • all your planets are belong to us
    • Email
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2011, 06:24:32 AM »
It's a shame you went for the Vampire thing... three LA is just enough for making a Shadow Dark creature, which would be awesomely full of shadows and virtually impossible to spot ever.  Anyway, you might want to rush into Unarmed Swordsage for the rest of the way.  The Shadow Hand school of maneuvers is perfect, including maneuvers that let you do things like teleport through shadows, shoot out garrotes made of shadows, and phase through walls.

JaronK

I didn't pick vampire :/ the dm gave it to me. But yea...I'm thinking about going shadow hand swordsage
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 06:27:20 AM by miz redavni »

miz redavni

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • all your planets are belong to us
    • Email
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2011, 08:12:26 AM »
I'm starting to think that ill go ninja 8/ shadowhand swordsage 4/ shadowdancer 4/ telflammar shadowlord 4.

I believe ill get 20ft shadowjump with shadowdancer and then it increases 20ft per lvl ill have in shadowlord. And ill start getting cool shadow control stuff and other shadow teles from shadowhand by 4th lvl and both shadowdancer and shadowlord will also start giving me cool shaow control stuff by 4th lvl too.

One of my party members is a spell turret guy so ill get him to sell me a spell turret of darkness.

Anyway I could get rid of the ninja 8 without rerollling? I mean in game way. Id like to replace it with something else. Maybe make it shadowhand 10/ shadowdancer 4/ shadowlord 6... I'm not sure yet.

X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2011, 08:39:52 AM »
Re-training and re-building are in the PHB II.  It requires some DM adjudication, but it sounds like your DM will be smart enough to not let you do anything absurd with it.

Without re-building your character, your best bet would be to get the Shadow-walker template, take your next level in Swordsage (you should be able to select up to 3rd level maneuvers, but only a 1st level stance at this point), then two levels of Ninja before getting a second level of Swordsage (giving you a single 4th-level maneuver).  After that, go into Telflammar Shadowlord and take all 6 levels, and cap off with two levels of Swordsage (netting two 6th-level maneuvers).

If you can re-build your character, you will wind up with similar abilities if you change your build to a Swordsage 5/Monk 2 (using the aforementioned Invisible Fist ACF), and you can arguably qualify for Telflammar Shadowlord using the stance granting Sneak Attack.  If your DM says no to that, you don't lose much by going Rogue 3/Swordsage 2/Monk 2 if you time your Swordsage levels wisely (level 5 and 7 will allow you to get up to 2nd and 3rd level maneuvers for each of those classes, respectively).  After that, taking 4 levels of Telflammar Shadowlord will get you the coveted Shadow Pounce ability, and then you can finish the build with 9 levels of Swiftblade.  Most of the casting progression will be wasted (although they still boost your CL with spells, so it's not all lost), but you will still get the Perpetual Options ability at 9th level, allowing you three shadowpounces a round (one from each of two standard actions, and a third from a quickened D.Door).  It's, again, not great, but it works and doesn't change your character substantially (aside from making it a bit better).

Finally, if you want to overhaul the crunch to make it dramatically better, and leave the fluff the same, there's still the build I posted earlier.

miz redavni

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • all your planets are belong to us
    • Email
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2011, 09:17:12 PM »
Re-training and re-building are in the PHB II.  It requires some DM adjudication, but it sounds like your DM will be smart enough to not let you do anything absurd with it.

Without re-building your character, your best bet would be to get the Shadow-walker template, take your next level in Swordsage (you should be able to select up to 3rd level maneuvers, but only a 1st level stance at this point), then two levels of Ninja before getting a second level of Swordsage (giving you a single 4th-level maneuver).  After that, go into Telflammar Shadowlord and take all 6 levels, and cap off with two levels of Swordsage (netting two 6th-level maneuvers).

If you can re-build your character, you will wind up with similar abilities if you change your build to a Swordsage 5/Monk 2 (using the aforementioned Invisible Fist ACF), and you can arguably qualify for Telflammar Shadowlord using the stance granting Sneak Attack.  If your DM says no to that, you don't lose much by going Rogue 3/Swordsage 2/Monk 2 if you time your Swordsage levels wisely (level 5 and 7 will allow you to get up to 2nd and 3rd level maneuvers for each of those classes, respectively).  After that, taking 4 levels of Telflammar Shadowlord will get you the coveted Shadow Pounce ability, and then you can finish the build with 9 levels of Swiftblade.  Most of the casting progression will be wasted (although they still boost your CL with spells, so it's not all lost), but you will still get the Perpetual Options ability at 9th level, allowing you three shadowpounces a round (one from each of two standard actions, and a third from a quickened D.Door).  It's, again, not great, but it works and doesn't change your character substantially (aside from making it a bit better).

Finally, if you want to overhaul the crunch to make it dramatically better, and leave the fluff the same, there's still the build I posted earlier.

Er... the most I've play from that build is a lvl 5 wizard and so I'm kind of not understanding your build I guess...

Will your build let me control shadows? Both animate and move them? Will it help me do sneak attacks? Will it let me do damage with shadows? Will it let me do some shadow tele(again I don't want this to be just another shadowpounce build)?

Oh wow I missed something major.... I need 2d6 sneak attack.... ok I don't want to do the monk bit because of the alignment restriction even though its the most opt way of doing it.... I'm looking up right now to see how many lvls in rouge or ninja it takes to get it

X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2011, 09:54:40 PM »
You will not be able to create them yourself, the build only gets up to 6th-level spells and Create Greater Undead (needed for Shadows) is an 8th-level spell.  You will, however, get Command Undead (so any shadows you happen upon can be taken control of), Summon Undead V (so you can summon shadows if they'll help), and can use a scroll of Create Greater Undead without a UMD check (it's an easy CL check to use it, if memory serves).

As for sneak attacks, the Unseen Seer is used to add the Ranger spell Hunter's Eye (PHB II) to your spell list, and it even gives a +1 to your caster level with said spell.  It also advances your sneak attack by 2d6, for a constant total of 5d6 with the Rogue levels.  While Hunter's Eye is up, you eventually gain an additional 4d6 sneak attack.  Over the course of the whole build, you're never far behind a pure rogue in terms of Sneak Attack while Hunter's Eye is up, and you also happen to gain a skirmish-like ability.

When it comes to opportunities to do sneak attacks, you also gain a lot.  You will be able to cast spells like Grease to force enemies to balance, Glitterdust to blind enemies, get spells like Invisibility, Blur, and Blink as concealment options, and eventually gain concealment while affected by Haste, each of them opening up opportunities to sneak attack.  You can teleport with Dimension Door, with or without shadows, and can cast other spells like Darkness and Shadow Walk if you feel so inclined.  You also get solid defenses in Mirror Image and Protection from Energy if you run into trouble and need to buy enough time to get to safety.  You can even use a spell in Complete Scoundrel called Evacuation Rune if the trouble turns out to be too much.

Finally, you get spells that a typical Rogue is going to want as part of their job, anyway, such as Arcane Sight to spot traps, Knock to open locks, Rope Trick for it's general awesomeness, and Lesser Telepathic Bond for relaying scouting info to the party.  There are also spells like Spymaster's Coin, Scry Location, and Chain of Eyes that let you scout remotely and then teleport to a safe location with the party.

miz redavni

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • all your planets are belong to us
    • Email
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2011, 10:31:01 PM »
You will not be able to create them yourself, the build only gets up to 6th-level spells and Create Greater Undead (needed for Shadows) is an 8th-level spell.  You will, however, get Command Undead (so any shadows you happen upon can be taken control of), Summon Undead V (so you can summon shadows if they'll help), and can use a scroll of Create Greater Undead without a UMD check (it's an easy CL check to use it, if memory serves).

As for sneak attacks, the Unseen Seer is used to add the Ranger spell Hunter's Eye (PHB II) to your spell list, and it even gives a +1 to your caster level with said spell.  It also advances your sneak attack by 2d6, for a constant total of 5d6 with the Rogue levels.  While Hunter's Eye is up, you eventually gain an additional 4d6 sneak attack.  Over the course of the whole build, you're never far behind a pure rogue in terms of Sneak Attack while Hunter's Eye is up, and you also happen to gain a skirmish-like ability.

When it comes to opportunities to do sneak attacks, you also gain a lot.  You will be able to cast spells like Grease to force enemies to balance, Glitterdust to blind enemies, get spells like Invisibility, Blur, and Blink as concealment options, and eventually gain concealment while affected by Haste, each of them opening up opportunities to sneak attack.  You can teleport with Dimension Door, with or without shadows, and can cast other spells like Darkness and Shadow Walk if you feel so inclined.  You also get solid defenses in Mirror Image and Protection from Energy if you run into trouble and need to buy enough time to get to safety.  You can even use a spell in Complete Scoundrel called Evacuation Rune if the trouble turns out to be too much.

Finally, you get spells that a typical Rogue is going to want as part of their job, anyway, such as Arcane Sight to spot traps, Knock to open locks, Rope Trick for it's general awesomeness, and Lesser Telepathic Bond for relaying scouting info to the party.  There are also spells like Spymaster's Coin, Scry Location, and Chain of Eyes that let you scout remotely and then teleport to a safe location with the party.

That's a really nice and interesting build but that's more of a rouge summoner build. I want a person that controls shadows(not the monster but actual shadows), a person that brings shadows and darkness where ever he goes

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2011, 12:09:54 AM »
Sounds like an illusionist with a themed list.  Pick up Control Darkness and Shadow from Champions of Ruin, take Spell Thematics and Invisible spell to make all your spells shadowy and hard-to-detect, and call it a day.

Otherwise, consider binding Naberius/getting a strongheart vest and undergoing the Ritual of Shadow Walking from Lords of Darkness 125, and making a shadowpouncer build.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 12:17:10 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

jojolagger

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 951
Re: help me make true master of the shadows
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2011, 03:09:37 AM »
Otherwise, consider binding Naberius/getting a strongheart vest and undergoing the Ritual of Shadow Walking from Lords of Darkness 125, and making a shadowpouncer build.
We don't need Naberius/strongheart vest, this guy is already a vampire. Just take the aforementioned ritual and some black sand, and go to town.
Countdown to Zombie Apocalypse 97
When you see this, copy it into your sig and -1
:lovefirefox
Quotes [spoiler]
In other words, he thinks there's a "correct" way to play D&D.  *sigh*
There is: Kill shit and loot the corpse!
When you use a tool the way it was designed for -- its intended function -- then it will work very well for you.

But it's not the tool's fault if you use it for something else and you fail utterly, such as trying to eat cereal with a butterknife, pounding nails with a screwdriver, blogging to voice your political opinions, and brushing your teeth with a hammer.
[/spoiler]