Author Topic: Warrior Woman Optimization  (Read 7167 times)

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SneeR

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Warrior Woman Optimization
« on: June 24, 2011, 08:59:12 PM »
So, my girlfriend is just getting into D&D. We need a heavy hitter in our party, so I made some suggestions. After some discussions, this is what her mind produced--totally free of what D&D's restrictions.

She wants her character to go into a state of focus that makes her impervious to damage so she can walk through throngs of enemies and slaughter one target with her sword.

She wants to cast a little bit of magic, maybe.

She wants to wear metal armor.

She wants, if feasible with the above, to ride a giant pet tiger into battle (her words were, "make my pet huge and ride it!")

So...
My initial thoughts were: reflavor barbarian's rage to be a state of focus, put her in breastplate, max Handle Animal and Ride to raise a big tiger and ride it.
But she also really likes the idea of being a Magic Knight... Duskblade in there somewhere?

An alternate idea would be to be Duskblade, acquire a familiar, cast Improved Familiar (whatever that spell is), and False Life on herself. Now she can wade into battle with temporary hp. But...

I have a feeling Tome of Battle is going to be big here. The definitely allowed sources are Core, the Completes, and Spell Compendium, though (the DM is unduly paranoid, so no Unearthed Arcana). Can this thing be any good in combat? Full BAB is preferable...

Level 6 now, but going all the way to 20!
Have at it!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 06:00:10 PM by SneeR »
The answer to everything:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
SneeR
[spoiler]
I don't know if the designers meant you to take Skill Focus for every feat.
Sounds a little OP.

The monk is clearly the best class, no need to optimize here. What you are doing is overkill.

It's like people who have no idea what a turn signal is. They ruin it for everyone else.
When another driver brandishes a holy symbol and begins glowing with divine light, seek cover or get spattered with zombie brains. I do not see what is so complicated about this.
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 09:23:08 PM »
She could go flat psychic warrior, grab Leadership for a were-tiger, take Shape Soulmeld (Phase Cloak), and Psionic Open Chakra (along with some ML boosts) to bind it to her shoulders chakra. Both are from Magic of Incarnum, and they allow her to go ethereal whenever she uses a move action to move 5' or more.

Not only can she run through throngs of enemies, she can actually walk through the enemies themselves!

She ought to be able to pull her mount into the ethereal plane with her, so long as she is, indeed, mounted up.

Alternately, she can take the Greater Concealing Amorpha power, which gives total concealment. You can't target someone with total concealment, which (among other things) means no attacks of opportunity.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 09:25:19 PM by Lycanthromancer »
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Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
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shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
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Mixster

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 09:38:08 PM »
I second Psychic Warrior.

Alternatively, Warblade. Warblade is the be all end all of martial characters.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Jelvoden

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 09:46:34 PM »
First off, Wild Cohort.

What do you/your group think of psionics? Just off the top of my head:
[spoiler]Psychic Warrior 5
1-Wild Cohort
1B-Mounted Combat
2ACF- Trade the PsyWar's 2nd level bonus feat for access to the Deception mantle. (Add powers to the PsyWar's list, and gain the ability to spend your psionic focus to place a 50% miss chance on all attacks directed at you until your next action)
3-Free feat? If the DM allows Natural Bond to affect the companion gained through Wild Cohort, it might be worthwhile to take that.
5B-Psionic Meditation (If your mount counts as "trained for combat" for the purposes of the ride skill, you can spend your move action each round replenishing your psionic focus)

1st level power: Inspire Mount (Mounted Combat as a bonus feat for the duration, or receive a +10 bonus to the check if you already have the feat. Also boosts the mount's speed)
[/spoiler]
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Littha

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 09:48:26 PM »
Yknow if it wasn't so bad Sohei would be perfect for this...

I did a fix for it (in my signature) but I'm guessing you dont want to use any homebrew.

Endarire

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 10:01:08 PM »
Hood is female by default.  Mounts are optional.

You need Battle Jump (Unapproachable East) or Roof-Jumper (Cityscape) for this to work in true dragoon style.  Moving or jumping as a swift action (Travel Devotion, Sudden Leap maneuver) can fake it.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 10:03:09 PM by Endarire »
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

skydragonknight

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2011, 10:03:47 PM »
Paladin with Law Devotion and Sword of the Arcane Order?
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2011, 10:57:57 PM »
Umm... Why not a Phage the Untouchable style build? She danced around too, only instead of some wimpy ignore people, she killed them all.

You could build one heck of a Paralyzing build that fully matures by level 12 or so (up to DC 45+ touch attacks, plus damage, and negative levels!). If not, even a simple Swordsage can do this using the counter boost that turns them Ethereal for one round.
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[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
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Midnight_v

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2011, 11:13:46 PM »
Quote
The definitely allowed sources are Core, the Completes, and Spell Compendium, though (the DM is unduly paranoid). Can this thing be any good in combat? Full BAB is preferable...

Level 6 now, but going all the way to 20!
Have at it!
Okay I'll try to keep it to just those then.  However... I don't think full bab is what you want, I'm just gonna put that out there....
And expand on what you want.

Heres a level six build.
Feats
Power Attack 1st,
Human Bonus feat:
2nd (duskblade bonus feat):Combat casting
3rd: Obtain Familiar
6th: Improved Familiar (page100  complete warrior), blink dog or worg, hell hound or Krenshar are your options

at level 9 you're she's going to be looking toward gaining arcane strike.
Its uses described fully in this famous post:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2252831%22

  Now the human bonus feat is left empty because theres a lot of different things I'd like to put there, but from other books than what you have avilable.
The 2 huge ones being:
Knowledge devotion(from the complete champion), and Versatile Spell caster(from races of the dragon) chooing those change the order of the feats somewhat. She should have all knowledge skills maxed out anyway, and since she's kind of a new player having her character go "What is it?" and get a straight answer is kinda good.
 
 I would also go take a look at the duskblade handbook in the handbooks sections.

The benefit of this build is that its simple, and it will play that ways.
She's see the monster, make a free knowledge check, walk up to them and smack them for good damage (with Magic Gleaming off her blade) she'll be channelling shocking grasp a lot.
She'll also be able to ride around with a large mount that has good hp, and that is likely higly intelligent itself and could be like having a second character overall.

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Nachofan99

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2011, 01:00:38 AM »
Psychic Warrior is a good suggestion.

I was thinking more about something like...Crusader/Barbarian/Cloistered Cleric/Warblade /Frenzied Berserker/Champion of Gwynharwyf.  Feats like: Mad Foam Rager and Maneuevers like Moment of Perfect Mind, Iron Heart Surge, Delayed Damage Pool and Deathless Frenzy all match the invulnerability angle.  Change the flavor of Cloistered Cleric to more of Monk idea where they seclude themselves from the world until they learn the secrets of the blade.  Same flavor re-dip for Crusader and Barbarian; Righteous Rage fits thematically.

I know I don't see Book of Exalted Deeds available so that might just kill the Champion idea.

Littha

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2011, 03:42:19 AM »
Psychic Warrior is a good suggestion.

I was thinking more about something like...Crusader/Barbarian/Cloistered Cleric/Warblade /Frenzied Berserker/Champion of Gwynharwyf.  Feats like: Mad Foam Rager and Maneuevers like Moment of Perfect Mind, Iron Heart Surge, Delayed Damage Pool and Deathless Frenzy all match the invulnerability angle.  Change the flavor of Cloistered Cleric to more of Monk idea where they seclude themselves from the world until they learn the secrets of the blade.  Same flavor re-dip for Crusader and Barbarian; Righteous Rage fits thematically.

I know I don't see Book of Exalted Deeds available so that might just kill the Champion idea.

For a new player that is way too complicated, Personally I would go with strait crusader (make cards) and take that wild cohort feat.

Chilastra022

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2011, 06:05:23 AM »
how about ...

Binder 1 / Urban Druid 3 / Anima Mage 10 / Tenebrous Apostate 5 / 1 x? (maybe a martial adept dip)

17th level binding, 17th level divine casting.

Anima Mage is reflavored to progress Divine instead of Arcane spell casting, class features untouched (no need to really).

Possible Feats:
Improved Binding (Important)
Ignore Special Requirements (Kinda Important)
Extend Spell (important as prereq for Persistent Spell)
Persistent Spell (Very important)
Power Attack (optional)
Leap Attack (optional)
???
Wild Cohort for tiger mount (Optional) (or reflavor the Vestige Andras, the Grey Knight's Mount ability to summon a dire tiger mount or something instead of a heavy warhorse. Probably better than wasting a feat on Wild Cohort)

Possible Spells to Persist (can persist 3 per day of levels 1-9):
Bite of the Werebear (A must, to have a somewhat decent BAB)
Brilliant Aura (optional, solves some BAB issues)
Venomfire + Poison Thorns (get attacked and attacker takes 17d6+ damage? *shrugs*)
tons of flexibility here (aside from the bite of the werebear spell, its a must with the anima mage's terrible BAB)

The idea behind this build can easily fit the concept of the character with very little reflavoring, and the character will be -extremely- flexible. Not only do you have the flexibility of the vestiges at your disposal, but also the flexibility of the druid spell list (which is already very powerful by itself). It'll be required to bind Tenebrous as one of the vestiges (thanks to Tenebrous Apostate), but this will allow the character to wade through hordes of enemies without a care. She'll also want to bind Andras if you decide to go that route for her tiger mount. If LA - Buyoff is allowed, the Feral template would help the character immensely in a variety of ways, (hell its even worth it without the LA buyoff). The build isnt too hard to optimize though, it has a few holes, but nothing that cant be managed.

Variety of spells to improve her tiger mount, such as nature's avatar, and im pretty sure theres one out there somewhere to increase its size. The character will probably want slippers of battledancing for the bonus Cha Mod to attack and damage. The character can wear medium armor, though is limited to light 'metal' armor due to urban druid. But this can be bypassed by creating ironwood medium armor, or ironwood heavy armor if the 1 level is invested into a class that is proficient with it, rather than the feral template.

I believe this meets all the requirements yes? ^_^

Edit: Woops, this might be a bit over the top if the DM is paranoid xD.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 07:05:27 AM by Chilastra022 »

Unbeliever

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2011, 12:10:11 PM »
Yeah, the second you wrote Anima Mage and Venomfire that was probably the case. 

How complicated a character would the OP be comfortable w/?  Build complication strikes me as no biggie, it all happens away from the table, but if she's new to the system you might not want something that's a total pain. 

Given the desires of the OP, especially the cast a little bit of magic thing, I would second Psychic Warrior and add Warblade as a possibility.  Both of them can be pretty spectacular (e.g., Expansion).  Barbarian is also nice all-around, I think, and you could pair it w/ Champion of Gwynharf (I know I'm not spelling that right and I don't care) for some more tanking and maybe a little bit of a mystical flair.  I made a Whirling Frenzy version of that for my gf a while ago and it worked fine in a 15th level game.  I can find the build around here if you like. 

Duskblade 20 is also perfectly serviceable.  And, there's the Familiar Handbook around, which should give you enough advice as to how to make her Familiar tough enough to be a serviceable mount.  But, I agree w/ other posts -- Leadership or Draconic Leadership should be used to get a cool looking occasionally useful mount.  She could always supermount it up if she wanted that to be the focus, but it doesn't sound like that's the case.

awaken DM golem

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2011, 04:45:16 PM »
rated-R pic warning ... but didn't trigger the weenie filter I have to use.
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SneeR

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2011, 05:58:08 PM »
Wow, Chilastra... That build is definitely pretty heavy, haha.
Yeah, the DM might be convinced to allow Tome of Battle, but probably not Tome of Magic. He can barely tolerate psionics. He didn't allow my friend to play a dread necromancer, and he hasn't allowed anything from UA, so he is pretty strict and touchy.

Build complication is definitely not a problem, because she is very bright when it comes to grasping how D&D works. The only thing I would like is a build where she doesn't really need to do much to accomplish what she wants. High BAB, lots of hp, and some low-level spells are the most obvious ways, but definitely not the only. While Chilastra's build is great, it requires some rituals at the days beginning to fit the mold, and that is not what she's looking for.

What I'm getting is psychic warrior, Wild Cohort, Duskblade, and Barbarian so far.
Acquire familiar and Improved Familiar look like interesting options, too.
The answer to everything:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
SneeR
[spoiler]
I don't know if the designers meant you to take Skill Focus for every feat.
Sounds a little OP.

The monk is clearly the best class, no need to optimize here. What you are doing is overkill.

It's like people who have no idea what a turn signal is. They ruin it for everyone else.
When another driver brandishes a holy symbol and begins glowing with divine light, seek cover or get spattered with zombie brains. I do not see what is so complicated about this.
[/spoiler]

Solo

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2011, 06:04:30 PM »
Can you convince him to allow psionics or ToM? Both are pretty well balanced.

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Chilastra022

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2011, 07:23:52 PM »
Well, these are the min maxing boards ^_~, gotta have at least one build in the thread thats absurd.

 :D

SneeR

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 01:37:55 AM »
Oh, he'll allow psionics, but he's never even heard of ToM. It's almost out of the question.
The answer to everything:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
SneeR
[spoiler]
I don't know if the designers meant you to take Skill Focus for every feat.
Sounds a little OP.

The monk is clearly the best class, no need to optimize here. What you are doing is overkill.

It's like people who have no idea what a turn signal is. They ruin it for everyone else.
When another driver brandishes a holy symbol and begins glowing with divine light, seek cover or get spattered with zombie brains. I do not see what is so complicated about this.
[/spoiler]

Solo

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2011, 01:56:09 AM »
Well, here's a Psychic Warrior build for you.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 03:58:39 PM by Solo »

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Ivory Knight

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Re: Warrior Woman Optimization
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2011, 08:53:17 AM »
How come, nobody mentioned Bardbarian as an option?
Sadly UA(containing Nature's Bard, which trades most of his music for an Animal Companion) is not allowed, but Obtain Familiar is availible to any Arcane caster.
Complete Adventurer had Ironskin Chant(trade Bardic Music for DR, granted almost not worth a feat...), which fits "impervious to damage".
Light Armor won't do it? Battlecaster is somewhere in one of the completes and gives casting in medium armor(like Mithral Fullplate).
With Spell Compandium allowed, there are more good combat spells, than you get spells known(Lyric Thaumathurg can nab Shield and qualify for Abjurant Champion).