Author Topic: Crafting in Pathfinder  (Read 28347 times)

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veekie

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Crafting in Pathfinder
« on: June 20, 2011, 07:54:16 PM »
So, with the total removal of xp costs from crafting(so its a flat cost halving), how much impact do you see crafting having, presuming PCs aren't allowed to recursively craft(i.e craft an item then use it's new market value as the raw materials for another etc)? Selling isn't an issue since its always half price(so PCs sell at well..production cost) for PCs.

The crafting stuffs
In addition, Ultimate Magic added an array of options for crafted constructs, which are hideously expensive to purchase, but might just be worthwhile to craft.

Thoughts? Considerations needed to adapt crafting type classes and PrCs over?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 07:56:33 PM by veekie »
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Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
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Prime32

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Re: Crafting in Pathfinder
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 08:46:55 PM »
In addition, Ultimate Magic added an array of options for crafted constructs, which are hideously expensive to purchase, but might just be worthwhile to craft.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/building-and-modifying-constructs
Those are already the costs for crafting, not purchasing.

Also, IIRC there's some way to ignore the prereqs on crafting feats.
EDIT: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-craftsman---final
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Lifat

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Re: Crafting in Pathfinder
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 11:19:35 PM »
Crafting in 3.5 had 3 major nuissances:
1. XP cost to create items meant you risked getting a bit behind the party in levels which is something spellcasters are reluctant to do.
2. Requirements to create items meant giving up valuable feat slots which means the relative powergain from cheaper items was lessened somewhat.
3. Time issues. You could only craft items worth 1k gold / day which means a 50k item (+5 weapon) took almost 2 months to create. In most of the plots I've played a 2 months downtime isn't really possible (especially the premade plots.)
Crafting in 3.P has only 1 major nuissance:
1. Time issues. I get that the other nuissances are gone and hurray for that. Still doesn't solve the biggest problem of all. No fun building your item if it means the bad guy takes over the world in the meantime...

veekie

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Re: Crafting in Pathfinder
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 08:10:00 AM »
In addition, Ultimate Magic added an array of options for crafted constructs, which are hideously expensive to purchase, but might just be worthwhile to craft.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/building-and-modifying-constructs
Those are already the costs for crafting, not purchasing.

Also, IIRC there's some way to ignore the prereqs on crafting feats.
EDIT: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-craftsman---final
I was referring to crafting them at all. Constructs are expensive, but building them makes it more affordable.

Bioconstruct modification might be expensive, but its...potent, on high HD constructs, particularly skills and feats. Buying up a fighting style alone could make the brain scary good. For example Iron Golem with 18HD of feats.
Construct Armor is overpriced.
Construct Limb...maybe less so, its hard to tell.
The cheaper Runecarved options could go on well on a construct PC, maybe a Soulbound Doll or a warforged.

What about on the DM side of the screen though? Crafting inflates any wealth thats not already magical, though for magical wealth, its just an item shop(with prereqs and a lonnnng wait time).
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

veekie

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Re: Crafting in Pathfinder
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 01:59:02 PM »
Quote
At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 the caster level for the itemerrata?. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item (see Cursed Items for more information).

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). the DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
So maximum item craftable is dependent on a skill check and taking 10.
Quote
The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item. The character must spend the gold at the beginning of the construction process. Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day. This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by 5.

The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster).
This would seem to preclude taking 10.

Most of the sample curses are also just inconvenient more than dangerous.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

veekie

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Re: Crafting in Pathfinder
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 12:42:58 PM »
Quote
The DC to create a magic item is 5 the caster level for the item?. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item (see Cursed Items for more information).

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). the DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

Looking at it though, if you can brew potions, it can be very worthwhile to create those of spells from off your list.
Potions below 250gp require only 2 hours base to create.
Assuming that adventuring is a disruptive environment, this time is doubled.
By taking a +5 to the craft DC, this time is halved.
As potions are use-activated, not having the spell is merely a +5 to the craft DC.
For a 250gp cost potion, you're working with a maximum CL of 5 to begin with.
So Craft(alchemy) DC 5+(CL) +5(fast creation) +5(missing spell) = DC 20 to make a CL 5 quick potion worth 250gp.
A level 7, int focused Expert could pull it off, with a skill mod of 7(ranks)+3(trained)+5(int)+2(mw Lab)+2(Master Craftsman) = +19. Feats required Master Craftsman(alchemy) and Brew Potion.
Handy for popping out low level potions in a hurry, for spells you don't even know, and even an NPC can do it!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 12:47:19 PM by veekie »
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

bkdubs123

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Re: Crafting in Pathfinder
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 04:32:56 PM »
Handy for popping out low level potions in a hurry, for spells you don't even know, and even an NPC can do it!

Pretty nice. :eh

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Crafting in Pathfinder
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2011, 02:22:31 AM »
So, about the whole "+5 DC to ignore a requirement, and only item creation feats are always required" bit...

Can you take a +5 spellcraft DC to make something of a CL higher than you have?  If you do, does the item have the listed CL, or yours?  This is important, because one SUPER annoying aspect from 3E crafting that you didn't list was "arbitrarily high CL requirements," and PF didn't seem to fix this issue at all.

For example:

Type I Bag of Holding is CL 9
Chime of Opening is CL 11
Major Crown of Blasting is CL 17
Dust of Dryness is CL 11
Elixer of Firebreath is CL 11
Feather Tokens, even the 50 gp anchor, are CL 12!
Handy Haversack is CL 9
Iouon Stones are all CL 12
Marvelous Pigments are CL 15!!!

veekie

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Re: Crafting in Pathfinder
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2011, 09:03:38 AM »
Looks like its possible to build above your CL, but the CL adds to both the base craft DC AND the +5. Which isn't really an obstacle.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

timtam

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Re: Crafting in Pathfinder
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2011, 04:46:54 AM »
To the best of my knowledge, the purpose of the item CL is only to set the base spell craft check (5+CL) and is not a prereq.

timtam

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Re: Crafting in Pathfinder
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2011, 04:58:53 AM »
I do not know how to edit my post, so I am posting again:

From the official Paizo FAQ, the item CL is NOT a prereq. for item creation:

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9n9x