Author Topic: Help me with a melee in low magic land  (Read 12495 times)

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Ubernoob

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2008, 06:43:05 PM »
Close combat shot is pretty worthless unless you are required to stay withing 30' of your enemy.

it is also useful when you are not expecting combat, and are Ambushed........... you dont always get the chance to keep a safe distance from your enemies
You're an archer.  If the enemy is beating your spot check then you are doing something wrong.
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Order of the Bow Initiate also does another useful thing,.... it Boosts Will saves... the Above build has saves like this:
So do a lot of classes.
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Sunic_Flames

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2008, 06:50:47 PM »
...But can't the enemy still jump everyone else?
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Ubernoob

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2008, 06:52:11 PM »
...But can't the enemy still jump everyone else?
Not if you are scouting ahead like you should be to prevent ambushes.  That's the role of archers in 3.5.  You *must* also be the scout or else you can't pull off your schtick.
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carnivore

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2008, 07:00:13 PM »
you cannot always Spot all Hazards, or Enemies ..... there are times in Urban Settings, where there are people all around you... but you dont know who is friend or Foe

some times you are attacked from All Sides by Hidden or invisible(until they attack) enemies ...... it is Impossible to Guarantee you are able to Spot All Ambushes...... the Build i gave can do a Decent job of scouting, and also handle Close Combat

Spotting an Enemy doesnt do much Good if they Spot you first and Charge to melee distance Immediately

 :D

Hallack

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2008, 07:02:30 PM »
Okay for non-ToB I have to agree that Dervish for the mobile fighting style or even a swifthunter would be good.

I'm playing a Dervish swifthunter actually in a game now... well about to hit 9th and get my first level of dervish and will soon have Swifthunter feat as well.

I've got Scout3/Monk2/Ranger3 so far.  Over next few levels will really come into his own.

Monk using ACF for dodge and mobility as bonus feats. (save boosts haven't hurt either and unarmed strike has been handy for undeads hehe)

Mine is going to be more a melee destroyer(with dervish) but Archer direction is a VERY nice (maybe more powerful) route.
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AndyJames

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2008, 07:05:44 PM »
A fun low magic build (probably crap, but fun):

Half-Celestial something or other
Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Wildshape Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Duskblade 1
Dragon Disciple 10
Exotic Weaponmaster 1

You get:
+12 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Int & Wis, +6 Cha & Con
+5 NAC
Ex Fly 100 (good)
+4 bonus vs Poison
BAB: +13
Base Saves: +18 Fort, +5 Ref, +9
Immunity to sleep, disease, paralysis & 1 energy type of your choice
Low-light & Darkvision
SLAs
1/day breath weapon
Pounce
3 natural attacks that are considered magical
1 EMW trick (I'd use the Bastardsword or Elven Thinblade in two hands trick)
2 bonus feats

Ubernoob

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2008, 07:20:01 PM »
you cannot always Spot all Hazards, or Enemies ..... there are times in Urban Settings, where there are people all around you... but you dont know who is friend or Foe

some times you are attacked from All Sides by Hidden or invisible(until they attack) enemies ...... it is Impossible to Guarantee you are able to Spot All Ambushes...... the Build i gave can do a Decent job of scouting, and also handle Close Combat

Spotting an Enemy doesnt do much Good if they Spot you first and Charge to melee distance Immediately

 :D
In which case you're fucked anyway.  If the enemy is for some reason impossible to spot they are going to get the jump on you.  Since you are alone (at least a round ahead of the party) you just got gang raped because 3.5 is all about rocket launcher tag.

An archer not using precision damage stays at least charging distance away from melee or he dies.  The good news is that your death alerted your party to the danger so they can raise you without any additional deaths.

Archers using precision damage (cough swift hunters) tend to have such silly high stealth and perception bonuses that they *don't* get spotted or spot the enemy by the time they get spotted.
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Caelic

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2008, 07:30:44 PM »
Out of curiosity, Andy, why one level of Wildshape Ranger?  What does that net you?

AndyJames

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2008, 07:34:16 PM »
Fast Movement, IIRC.

Caelic

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2008, 07:35:30 PM »
Ah.  Yes, it does indeed give fast movement; you're correct. 

Rebel7284

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2008, 07:52:24 PM »
Dragonborn Mongrelfolk - Mineral Warrior.

LA +1

+4 CON, -2 INT, -4 CHA
+2 CON, -2 DEX
+2 STR, +4 CON, -2 INT, -2 WIS, -2 CHA
Total: STR +2, DEX -2, CON +10, INT -4, WIS -2, CHA -6

32 point buy
STR 16, DEX 8, CON 18, INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 8 =

STR 18, DEX 6, CON 28, INT 10, WIS 6, CHA 2

1. Ranger 1, favorite enemy, Track, Feat:Improved Unarmed Strike
2. Ranger 2, rapid shot
3. Ranger 3, Endurance, Feat: Power Attack
4. Ranger 3/Stoneblessed 1, CON(29)
5. Ranger 3/Stoneblessed 2, Racial Battle Tech
6. Ranger 3/Stoneblessed 3, CON(31) Stoneborn, Great Fortitude
7. Ranger 3/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 1, CON to AC, +10 ft movement, ferral trance
8. Ranger 3/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 1/Deep Warden 1, CON(32)Trap Sense
9. Ranger 3/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 1/Deep Warden 2, 2x CON to AC, Feat: Dodge
10. Ranger 3/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 2/Deep Warden 2, uncanny dodge, untamed strike, 1d8 fist.
11. Ranger 3/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deep Warden 2, ferral trance 2/day, scent, 1d10 fist
12. Ranger 3/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deep Warden 2/Dwarf Paragon 1, Con(33), Feat: Toughness
13. Ranger 3/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deep Warden 2/Dwarf Paragon 2, Darkvision 90
14. Ranger 3/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deep Warden 2/Dwarf Paragon 3, Con(35)
...
...
...
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Nodaisho

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2008, 08:15:34 PM »
I would do an archer build, but I already am running one, built another one for a game that was cancelled, not interested in playing that right now.

Dervish looks promising, but I would think that I would want to use one weapon in this game, since we get a maximum of two magic items. Hmm... A thri-kreen would get to add... 2.5 his strength bonus to an attack if he was using all four hands on it, right? .5 extra for each arm?

Would it be worth it to take a level of passive way monk for combat expertise, so you don't need 13 in int? Monk also gives perform as a class skill. And then, said Thri-kreen monk could make four unarmed attacks with MWF, right? And his bite attack, and snap kick, and he could do this all after a move with the dervish dance. You are normally allowed to make a jump as part of a charge, correct? +30 to jump from Thri-Kreen, +13 ranks, +2 synergy, +4 move speed (before dervish speed), +str, you ought to be able to jump 60 feet without difficulty (base move speed 40, charge speed 80), 60 feet achieves a peak jump height of 12, don't you just have to be 8 feet up to be above a medium character's reach? If I am not mistaken in this, that could just get nasty, who needs a spell to fly? Just give me a tree or two and I can do some Wuxia stuff above the heads of all those ground-bound mooks.

I'm not sure how I will build it, does it sound worth trying to build?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 08:21:06 PM by Nodaisho »
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Ubernoob

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2008, 09:01:10 PM »
Dervish and thri-kreen don't mix well.  Thri-kreen demands bonus dice.  Dervish mixes better with THF (especially reach).  Remember, 5' of movement between each attack.  Thri-kreen mixes better with pounce and bonus dice.

Since you get *2* magic items, I'd stay THF and not bother with the kreen.
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Nodaisho

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2008, 09:11:02 PM »
I don't understand, why does it demand bonus dice? Is the amount of movement that you are limited to the problem with getting a huge amount of attacks with the dervish?

I am new to the whole optimizing thing, so things that seem obvious to you are new to me.

What would you suggest for a dervish instead? If human, would it be worth the two feats to get Shiba? It seems like without wis, I still ought to have plenty of damage, but I still really like the ability to get wis to AC, hit, and damage, I think I am biased on it, probably not worth it.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 09:19:16 PM by Nodaisho »
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Ubernoob

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2008, 09:25:13 PM »
Kreen costs you levels for effectively just 4 arms.  You *must* use MWF just to catch up.  MWF makes bonus dice 4 times more effective than on THF.

Thus, Kreen *demand* bonus dice.

For dervish dance you must be able to move more squares than the # of attacks you make.  In a low magic environment movement boosts are rare.  Speed caps around 55.  11 attacks.  A kreen gets at least 16 at 16 bab.  Dervish and MWF don't mix well.
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AndyJames

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2008, 09:28:41 PM »
In theory a Kreen with MWF and Monk gets 7 attacks a round at level 1:

Primary hand
3 off-hands
2 feet
bite

But only in theory. Your DM is liable to hit you with sharp pointy objects and hard flat ones if you try this out :D

Nodaisho

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2008, 09:34:04 PM »
It is the internet, despite many attempts, nobody has managed to make monitors that stab you on command.

So THFing dervish, needs a good move speed, I am thinking executioner's mace for the weapon, use the slashing unless we run against something that has DR/piercing. Anyone got advice for building one up?
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AndyJames

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2008, 09:41:20 PM »
It is the internet, despite many attempts, nobody has managed to make monitors that stab you on command.
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Ubernoob

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2008, 09:42:57 PM »
Anyone got advice for building one up?
OK, dervish with a reach weapon.  We can do this.  Additional question:
Dervish can mix quite well with either knockback (RoS) or Tripping.  Either way, goliath is an optimal race.  Do tripping or knockback appeal to you?
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Nodaisho

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Re: Help me with a melee in low magic land
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2008, 09:51:28 PM »
Tripping sounds like fun, would help power attack, since if you trip someone they get -4 to AC for the rest of the full attack.
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