What can be done with lvl 15 gestalt Frank & K Tome characters?

[Gavinfoxx]

So... there is this game on Myth-Weavers which seems to be absurdly high power level, and I am trying to figure out what sort of thing can be done given the rules he is laying down.

Basically, the short of it is that the character is ECL 15, Gestalt, Frank & K Tome stuff (no stormlord or shadow warrior) is available, and the character had better be drow flavored in some way or form.  I have noooo idea what sort of thing is possible with that sort of hideous amount of power, but I'd like some ideas. I know Tome stuff is to make the 'bottom floor' of classes at least Tier 2, right? So what the heck does GESTALT ECL 15 Tome stuff mean?

[Agita]

It means I'll give the DM two weeks, tops.

Amusingly, gestalting Tome Fighter//Wizard basically gives you the Lightning Warrior. Except with a familiar.

[RobbyPants]

Amusingly, gestalting Tome Fighter//Wizard basically gives you the Lightning Warrior. Except with a familiar.

Yeah, if nothing else, I was going to suggest Fighter up one side and a caster up the other.

The Tome fighter has a fantastic chassis (full BAB, d10 HD, all good saves, and 6 skill points) and a bunch of really good abilities to boot.  Wizard is an obvious choice, but if you want to be able to cast in armor, any divine caster or psion could do.

As for other Tome classes, True Fiend can be pretty awesome, but you have to be fiendish in some way, so drow would be out (Unless you can take that Product of Infernal such-and-such feat that makes you a fiend).

[Midnight_v]

Ironically in a breif schooling I got about it yesterday ... I have this to share.

From Kaelik:

Tome Fighter 16: I choose 16, because you've used nothing but 9th level spells as examples, so I don't give a shit, and this is one level before that, and the level that Fighters unlock all the extra stuff from their feats. There are some builds that are arguably stronger 16 and post, but this one is the one that starts off absurd, and stays that way, and is really easy to track backward:

Human Fighter 20:
1: Infernal Dalliance (Demodad)
1: Two Weapon Fighting
2: Combat School
3: Ghost Hunter
4: Horde Breaker
6: Large Size
6: Mage Slayer
8: Blitz
9: Harmless Form
10: Whirlwind
12: Huge Size
12: Blind Fighting
14: Lightning Reflexes
16: Murderous Intent

Str 18 start + 16 size upgrades + 6 enhancement bonus + 5 Inherent Wishes + 4 levels = 49 or a +19 mod.

AB is 16 BAB + 19 Str mod + 6 weapon + 2 Moral from Bag of Ratting +2 from Combat School = +45 base.

Because you are a TWFing Blitz user with boots of haste, your standard action is:

+47/+47/+47/+47/+50/+45/+45/+45/+45/+45/+45/+45.

Let's say for shits and giggles you are using Kurisama or whatever that one handed chain weapon with reach that can also hit adjacent is. I think it does 1d6 damage, but let's assume it does 1 damage, so I can avoid writing any goddam dice expressions.

Your damage on an attack is:

+19 Str + 6 weapon + 2 Combat School + 2 Moral from Rat Bagging + 1 Weapon Damage Dice +16 Base attack bonus from Blitz = 46 damage on main hands, 36 on off hands before power attack.

Now let's see a fight against some CR 20ish monsters:

We are going to assume that the Fighter wins init every time. Since he can never be caught flat footed, and has two foil actions, that means most of the time, even if he doesn't, as long as the fight starts within 120ft, it will still be as if he did.

[spoiler] Fight 1: Titan:

SLAs: Persistent Image could be used as a super absurd (you are never actually attacking me) thing, if it's set up in advance, but that's exactly my point that this is mandatory. Let's assume it's not like that though. Gate will be ignored, because it is stupid. Of everything else Etherealness does nothing, because the Fighter has Ghost Touch weapons and can see the Ethereal plane just as well as the material. Maze, the Fighter probably has a teleport item of some kind, not to mention close range is within foil distance. Word of Chaos could be used, but give me a break, it's a level 16 fighter soloing a CR 21 monster, plus, it can't actually be used outside foil range, so it's actually probably never going to go off.

Fighter turn: Moves 90ft. Makes full attack as standard action. AC of 38 for Titan, Fighter using Combat School takes 10 on each attack, lowest attack rating is +45. yes, fighter wouldn't have perfect information because it might be non standard Titan, but he can also scale power attack between each of his 12 attacks. Let's say he just power attacks for full on every attack, adding 32 damage to each attack:

Hits on every attack 6 times for 78 damage before DR and 6 times for 68 damage before DR.

Assuming the Fighter doesn't have a weapon that auto bypasses all DR at this point, even though he probably would, that's still 696 damage on one full attack. Titan has 370 HP, and is now Chunky Salsa.

Fight 2: Tarrasque receives full 696 damage as before, but because it has 48 HD, it lives, heals 40 damage, and if it made all 12 saves against daze at DC 37 Fort saves, it get's two attacks foiled, then does some mostly pitiful damage. Yes it makes it on a 2, but there are 12 of them.

Next round, it's driven deep negatives, never wakes up, and the level 16 Fighter just keeps murderous intenting it, or full attacking, till he has it low enough to sit down, craft a scroll of wish, then use it.

Fight 3: NightCrawler. Dies in one round. Doesn't even have anything to save it.

Fight 4: Pit Fiend: Has Blasphemy and Persistent Image, see Titan SLAs. Also, because of the way Fear Aura works, if they start within 20ft of each other and the Pit Fiend wins init, Fear Aura will be used, because as a free action, even if foiled twice, he can still use it a third time, so instead, foil the standard and move, and then make a DC 27 Will save.

Once it comes time for the full attack, Power attacking for full is not such a good idea. AC 40 is just over the line, so that taking 10, on all the attacks besides the first 5, he needs to only power attack for +15. So let's take 2 damage off all the attacks, and just say he only takes 672 damage from the full attack. Oh wait, he's still dead. PS, no I didn't forget Unholy Aura, the Fighter ignores all Deflection bonuses.

Fight 5: Balor: As per Blasphemy, see Titan, however, unlike the Pit Fiend, the Balor could actually attack the Fighter if he starts outside 120ft and wins Init, he could use Insanity or Dominate Monster both negated by any Magic Circle effect or Mindblank, or he could use Telekinesis. But if the fighter ever gets to attack the Balor, it results in standard issue Chunky Salsa from 696 damage, again.

There, that's all the non Dragon CR 18-22s. I didn't go over Dragons or Solars, because that's too much work, what with variable spells, and stuff, but the point is:

Is enemy within 105ft of Fighter? If Yes, Chunky Salsa, if no, have him double move or charge, end next to the monster, and then take advantage of foil action and Mage Slayer, and a 15ft threatened range to get AoO on monster.

There is certainly room for trying to kite Fighter from outside 120ft, but it's quite difficult, and the Fighter can always just get behind cover, and that starts to get into what items he has, since he probably has a teleport item, or whatever. In general, it's really shitty how much the level 16 Fighter auto wins D&D.
   [/spoiler]
   

So yeah ... he fucking told me, thats for sure, the Tome fighter, and it almost doesn't matter what you mix it with for ultimate power, I guess. Gesalt is nothing that I've spun up on but using something like this and then on the other side having whatever caster you happen to desire is gonna auto win a D&D

[Prime32]

As for other Tome classes, True Fiend can be pretty awesome, but you have to be fiendish in some way, so drow would be out (Unless you can take that Product of Infernal such-and-such feat that makes you a fiend).

And call yourself a draegloth.

[DavidWL]

Well, when you have ultimate power, the instinct should be (I think) to take advantage and play whatever high-powered thing you want to play.

That said, some thoughts:
A) First Side:
* Binder 1/Thaumaturge 4/Anima Mage 10 for one side gives very flexible spellcasting and all-day endurance
* Play a monster at Level = CR+1 or +2.  Elemental Weird at 14th level is pretty awesome, winning the information game.  Astral Projection to adventure.  (I'd use an item, with 9th level slot = Wish)
* Conduit of the Lower Planes 5, expert access to Sphere: Magic -> Limited Wish at will (at will casting of 6th level arcane, 5th level divine) as spell-like ability. ... Conduit of the Lower Planes 5/Ur-Priest 2/Progression 8 (Lord of the damned 10). 
B) Second Side
* Sohei 5/Enlightened Disciple of Wel Hung Temple 10 - pure awesomeness: cool immunities, can't be interrupted by standard actions, mindblowing buffing and retributive magic effect via "Enlightenment: We Are All Connected", stat bonuses from Half-Celetial.
* Ninja 15 (surprise round master is awesome)
* Fighter 15 (what's not to like?)


I'd probably play an Elemental Weird / Enlightened Disciple.

Best,
David