Author Topic: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?  (Read 13250 times)

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Dallimar

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[PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« on: June 09, 2011, 07:07:52 PM »
I've been digging through Pathfinder books as fast as they are hitting the shelves (or my computer) and have used them to put a vast, sweeping epic on the table for my group.  I have politics and intrigue, swords and sorcery.  I have a climactic encounter with the Tarrasque.  Heck, I even found a way to work in the Jabberwock and a Balor.  What I don't have is someone to pin all the bad stuff on.  Then I got my hands on Ultimate Magic and there it was, the Magus.

I want my group to have a love/hate relationship with this guy (someone that they love to hate).  My problem is that the group is fairly well organized and optimized.  They are a rogue, a fighter, an oracle, an urban druid, and a wizard.  I have put them up against CR encounters that should have been epic and they walk on the bad guy like he's not even there.

How can I set this guy up to be more of a challenge.  What kind of combo of feats, skills (and skill tricks), and items could I use to make my players finally stop and say "damn, this guys is a bad-ass."

Any 3.x books are far game, but if it has been updated for Pathfinder the update will supersede it.  The party will encounter this guy for the first time at around level 12.
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juton

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2011, 04:28:46 PM »
The Magus get a few nice abilities, but he under performs compared to other fighter/casters. At level 12 an well built Eldritch Knight, Oracle, Cleric or Druid will all be better. That being said, if you want to give the Magus enough levels he can definitely challenge your party.

You want to do two things with the Magus, you have to make him look like a threat to the party, and you have to actually be a threat to the party. This isn't the same thing, if your Magus takes Pathfinder's cleave/great cleave he can attack multiple PCs with one attack, which makes the PCs feel they are in danger but you probably won't be doing enough damage to any single character to get a kill. Picking up Power Attack might also make your Magus seem like more of a threat if the PCs AC is low. If you want to be an actual threat then you should load your Magus up with spells that give bad conditions without a save, like Black Tentacles.

I'd also recommend that your Antagonist have a good AC, so that only a few of the PCs attacks will land in a round, but not so high they get frustrated. You should pump up your Hitpoints as well, so that the PCs feel like they are doing damage but not enough to legitimately drop him. Your Magus should also have a way to disappear when things are going poorly for him, that can be something as simple as a contingent Dimension Door.

Prime32

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2011, 04:51:44 PM »
I'd recommend giving him as many unusual abilities as possible. Have him wield a +X keen Feycraft rapier in one hand w/ Shadow Blade and Pirahna Strike, which is also his Black Blade, then give him Critical Strike/Close Range/Dispelling Strike/Reflection. A guy getting decent results from OWF and parrying spells should freak experienced players out. Maybe let them see him stab a guy, causing him to wither away into a skeleton.

You can use the Hasted Assault talent to qualify for swiftblade, and arcane duelist's False Keenness becomes a lot more dangerous in combo with Critical Strike. The latter, however, is best reserved for gestalt.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 05:02:39 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Hasmadad

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2011, 06:43:15 PM »
Nothing says BBEG better than dual-wielding Black Blades of Disaster with sonorous hum or the like. While sittin on a throne made from pokemon skulls and furry pelts.

Not relevant really but had this idea stuck in my head for a few days and had to get it out.

-Uncle Has

Dallimar

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2011, 11:14:23 AM »
Thanks for the input guys.  I'll put him together and drop him here if you don't mind critiquing it.
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Dallimar

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2011, 04:00:11 PM »
I'd recommend giving him as many unusual abilities as possible. Have him wield a +X keen Feycraft rapier in one hand w/ Shadow Blade and Pirahna Strike, which is also his Black Blade, then give him Critical Strike/Close Range/Dispelling Strike/Reflection. A guy getting decent results from OWF and parrying spells should freak experienced players out. Maybe let them see him stab a guy, causing him to wither away into a skeleton.

Emphasis added.

What book do I find these two in, and what do they do?

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TheWyrmDude

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2011, 04:28:51 PM »
Shadow Blade is from Tome of Battle. Gives dex to damage while in a Shadow Hand stance and using a preferred weapon of the discipline (Rapiers aren't a SH discipline weapon), Piranha Strike is from the Sargava, the Lost Colony PF supplement. It's basically power attack for main hand light weapons.

Dragonamedrake

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2011, 05:25:11 AM »
Kill the Druid's Wagon... instant hate will be had.  :bigeye

Dallimar

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 07:15:33 PM »
Kill the Druid's Wagon... instant hate will be had.  :bigeye

He has since upgraded to an animated statue, but I see what you mean. I'd hate. Haha.

In other news, here's what I've got for this guy.

Human Magus 16
Str 20, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 24, Wis 14, Cha 12

Magus Arcana: Reflection, Close Range, Dispelling Strike, Maximized Magic, Empowered Magic

Feats: Dodge, Piranha Strike, Cleave, Great Cleave, Combat Casting, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Spring Attack, Lightning Reflexes, Magical Aptitude

Equipment
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2011, 07:23:54 PM »
<snip>if your Magus takes Pathfinder's cleave/great cleave he can attack multiple PCs with one attack, which makes the PCs feel they are in danger but you probably won't be doing enough damage to any single character to get a kill.</snip>
What?

Dude, reread what you just said.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2011, 06:22:14 AM »
<snip>if your Magus takes Pathfinder's cleave/great cleave he can attack multiple PCs with one attack, which makes the PCs feel they are in danger but you probably won't be doing enough damage to any single character to get a kill.</snip>
What?

Dude, reread what you just said.
It makes sense though. For a BBEG, you don't want to actually kill a PC, you want to make them feel threatened.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

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Otovulf

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2011, 07:01:04 AM »
But, Cleave doesn't work that way...
So just sorta found out about games like D&D.  Life is good.

veekie

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2011, 07:29:52 AM »
Quote from: Pathfinder Cleave
Yes it does.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Lycanthromancer

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2011, 07:33:27 PM »
Ah. Okay. That actually makes sense, then.

And Cleave is actually useful!
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2011, 06:05:43 AM »
Great Cleave is cool once you find a way to up your reach. Its basically Whirlwind Attack if you have a fighter's to-hit bonus.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Prime32

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2011, 04:47:12 PM »
Ah. Okay. That actually makes sense, then.

And Cleave is actually useful!
IIRC a designer said you couldn't combine it with other things which require a standard action. And then when someone complained about balance he said he let players combine in them in his games so there was no problem. And then when he was asked why if there was no problem it didn't just say that, he accused the guy of munchkinry and verbal abuse. And then said he was going to stop answering rules questions, because the guys asking them only cared about rules.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 04:52:46 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2011, 12:02:22 PM »
Ah. Okay. That actually makes sense, then.

And Cleave is actually useful!
IIRC a designer said you couldn't combine it with other things which require a standard action. And then when someone complained about balance he said he let players combine in them in his games so there was no problem. And then when he was asked why if there was no problem it didn't just say that, he accused the guy of munchkinry and verbal abuse. And then said he was going to stop answering rules questions, because the guys asking them only cared about rules.
Well, because the designer is an idiot the basic rationale is:
-Cleave is useless when you need to DROP an enemy to do it, or broken when you can bag of rats it.
-Standard action cleave is much more usable.
-Allowing people to combine it with other Standard combat options is more exploitable, lets not do that. Its a paranoia statement because they don't really get how optimization work and are afraid of it.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Otovulf

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2011, 02:18:18 PM »
Quote from: Pathfinder Cleave
Yes it does.


I had my 3.5 and my Pathfinder Cleaves mixed up. :p
So just sorta found out about games like D&D.  Life is good.

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: [PATHFINDER] the Magus - A good BBEG?
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2011, 06:18:21 PM »
Look into the Dimensional Dervish feat tree (you need 2 other feats before dervish, and all require having dim door, so you should be able to get Dim. Dervish by the time the Magus is 13-15th level, depending on how early they can use the spell), it'd probably look cool to see the BBEG teleporting around and attacking everyone.