Why're 3.x Rules so Damn Fun to Talk About?

[Tequila Sunrise]

I do talk about other rulesets and systems, but there's something about 3.x that brings out the best [and the worst] in discussion.

Is it because of the opinion powder kegs: paladins, ToB, VoP, and so on?

Is it the system mastery?

Is it because so much of it is broken, or at the very least, glitchy?

Is it because 3.x creates the illusion of a vast yet coherent super-structure, while actually creating a maddeningly obtuse jumble of rules and guidelines?

Or is it just because I have a compulsion to tinker with elaborate rulesets?

[RobbyPants]

All of the above?  You can probably get equally lively discussions for other editions and other games.

This is all quite anecdotal, but I just didn't analyze 2E this much mostly because everyone I knew had this mindset that thinking like that was bad for the game.  Most people still figured that the rules were just guidelines and the DM's word was final, plus all games were a hodge-podge of house rules anyway, so most players couldn't have that level of system mastery.

It seemed that 3E was the first edition to come close to presenting a complete ruleset, which implied that the DM didn't have to houserule everything to get stuff to work.  There was the idea that you could just play it right out of the box, which made it easier to actually analyze the rules.

[Esgath]

All of the above?  You can probably get equally lively discussions for other editions and other games.

This is all quite anecdotal, but I just didn't analyze 2E this much mostly because everyone I knew had this mindset that thinking like that was bad for the game.  Most people still figured that the rules were just guidelines and the DM's word was final, plus all games were a hodge-podge of house rules anyway, so most players couldn't have that level of system mastery.

It seemed that 3E was the first edition to come close to presenting a complete ruleset, which implied that the DM didn't have to houserule everything to get stuff to work.  There was the idea that you could just play it right out of the box, which made it easier to actually analyze the rules.

And everyone nowadays has access to broadband internet, allowing us to meet in such big communities for a chat.

[genuine]

Another major contributor is the number of people who know and play the system. Say what you will, 3.5 seems to consistently maintain the largest player base. And more people playing means more people talking, which means more people arguing.

[ninjarabbit]

Several reasons, some of which have already been touched on.

First is that it is (was) the most popular PnP RPG on the planet. Second is that it got popular right when the internet took off. Third is that the ruleset itself is incredibly flexible and it's easy to make almost any kind of character you can imagine. Fourth is that it was supported pretty well by Wizards with numerous splatbooks so there's plenty of material out there.

There's more reasons too but this is just a start.

[DavidWL]

I think it is complex enough to be interesting, and breakable, so that you can accomplish things.

Compare this to Everway - fantastic game, but it isn't one that people would regularly optimize ...

Best,
David

[Tenebrus]

D&D is the Common Speech and is the generic name for the whole hobby, like Kleenex or Aspirin.  We guard the reputation fiercely.

Oh, and my vote is certainly for the "illusion of a vast yet coherent super-structure, while actually creating a maddeningly obtuse jumble of rules and guidelines?" option if I have to pick just 1.

[lianightdemon]

It's no different then people arguing over football results or whatnot. People enjoy talking about their hobbies and interests. Ours just happen to be D&D. The internet helps a lot, allowing us to find others with the same interests. Trying to explain and talk about the game to people not interesting in it leaves them confused, and often picked on as it is not "normal". There are still people who think it is worshiping the devil.
Some people just don't have the imagination to understand the difference between fantasy and reality. If your telling them about your evil character made from the book of vile darkness who sacrifices his followers for power then they may be concerned that your being serious.

Though trying to explain LARP to someone is even harder. "You go out into the woods in costume and hit people with foam covered pipes!?" O_o

[DavidWL]

It's no different then people arguing over football results or whatnot. People enjoy talking about their hobbies and interests. Ours just happen to be D&D. The internet helps a lot, allowing us to find others with the same interests. Trying to explain and talk about the game to people not interesting in it leaves them confused, and often picked on as it is not "normal". There are still people who think it is worshiping the devil.
Some people just don't have the imagination to understand the difference between fantasy and reality. If your telling them about your evil character made from the book of vile darkness who sacrifices his followers for power then they may be concerned that your being serious.

Though trying to explain LARP to someone is even harder. "You go out into the woods in costume and hit people with foam covered pipes!?" O_o

Actually, I disagree.  The question is also, "why don't people have thousands of posts about ... " min-maxing Mutants and Masterminds.  Tic-Tac-Toe.  etc.

Dnd has a good mix of breakable with the illusion of balanced.  Mutants and Masterminds is really too easy to break.  Everway isn't about breakage.  Etc. 

It's not just any hobby ...

[Prime32]

Though trying to explain LARP to someone is even harder. "You go out into the woods in costume and hit people with foam covered pipes!?" O_o

"You weirdos. Now if you'll excuse me I'm late for a historical reenactment."

[Sinfire Titan]

For me, it's a mix of the hard crunch and the soft crunch. Looking at other systems, they are either overly hard crunch (no room for real flavor alteration) or soft crunch (pretty much everything WW has ever produced).

Towards the end of 3.5's lifespan, the hard crunch became more and more template-focused, and easier to mimic for us homebrewers. We no longer had to write out this wall of text explaining a Decanter of Endless Water's activation time, we could just put it into the premade template. People will notice that my homebrew tends to be overly templated for ease of use.

In the mean time, the soft crunch no longer had numerical values scattered through it (god only knows how many +1 bonuses someone can dig up from just CW's text), making it easier for DMs to sift through everything.


This, in my opinion, was 4E's step in the right direction (even though they managed to screw up the templates).