Author Topic: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)  (Read 77682 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

zook1shoe

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 784
    • Email
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #60 on: May 20, 2011, 03:52:28 AM »
What about corrupt spells, when you are immune to their corruption cost?

Tshern

  • Clown Prince of Crime
  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5726
  • Aistii valoa auttavasti
    • Email
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2011, 10:46:51 AM »
Well, you do not take the CON damage, so whether or not that works is not that straightforward. To me, at least.

Sure you take it.  You're just immune to it.  It's not like Hellfire Warlock... the language is completely different, and the wording in ToB is just that you chose to take the hit and in return get extra damage (as opposed to your con being the thing that fuels the attack, like the Hellfire Warlock).

Of course, in the end a charger would hit harder, but it's still an idea to consider.

JaronK
If you are immune to it, then by no definition you do not take that damage.

Handy Links

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2011, 12:25:54 PM »
What about corrupt spells, when you are immune to their corruption cost?
Since you don't take the ability damage until the end of the spell's duration, you clearly don't need to take it to cast the spell.  It's more like a penalty for having done so.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Tshern

  • Clown Prince of Crime
  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5726
  • Aistii valoa auttavasti
    • Email
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2011, 01:10:05 PM »
Same for exalted (at least a bunch of them, not sure if it applies to all of them) spells.

Handy Links

zook1shoe

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 784
    • Email
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2011, 03:34:48 PM »
what about an undead or deathless casting the Exalted Fury? where you die casting the spell. but you are not alive?

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2011, 04:29:29 PM »
If you are immune to it, then by no definition you do not take that damage.

The wording doesn't imply you have to be hurt by it.  Honestly, it's just like Corrupt/Sanctified spells that way... it's a penalty for having taken it.  Even the fluff for it indicates that you're damaged by the sheer volume of energy you're allowing to be channeled through you (unlike hellfire, which is powered by your life force), so the damage is a side effect, not a direct source.  It's like dropping an AoE attack on top of yourself because you're surrounded by enemies and you're immune to the effects anyway.

As for Exalted Fury, Deathless and Undead can still die.  When they stop becoming a creature, they're dead.  However, a Shadowcraft Mage can cast the spell without dying, because the dying is a component cost and SCMs can just ignore that.  Not that it matters... the spell's not that great anyhow.  I'd rather fire off a Twinned Wings of Flurry!

JaronK

Tshern

  • Clown Prince of Crime
  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5726
  • Aistii valoa auttavasti
    • Email
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2011, 06:29:40 PM »
To be fair, I did not read the rules regarding that (lack of books) and I trust your interpretation of the mechanics is correct. However, I have always been of the opinion that you need to take the damage or you will not get the benefit, unless specifically mentioned otherwise.

Handy Links

Ithamar

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 959
  • PM me if you're interested in some Arena action!
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #67 on: May 20, 2011, 06:33:33 PM »
Quote from: Greater Divine Surge
For each point of Constitution damage you take, you gain a +1 bonus on your attack roll and deal an extra 2d8 points of damage.

Here is a direct quote from the manuever.  The way I interpret this is in agreement with Tshern.

Step 1:  Look at how much CON damage you actually took.
Step 2:  Add +1 to hit and +2d8 to damage for each point of CON damage you actually took.

If you are immune to CON damage, then you obviously cannot "take" CON damage, thus can add no bonus to your attack or damage.
Are you worthy of Ascension?
Always accepting gladiators!  Now with a new and improved rule set!

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #68 on: May 20, 2011, 07:27:46 PM »
For a quick comparison, here's the Hellfire Warlock ability:

Quote
Hellfire Blast (Sp): Whenever you use your eldritch blast ability, you can change your eldritch blast into a hellfire blast. A hellfire blast deals your normal eldritch blast damage plus an extra 2d6 points of damage per class level. If your blast hits multiple targets (for example, the eldritch chain or eldritch cone blast shape invocations), each target takes the extra damage. This damage is not fire damage. Hellfire burns hotter than any normal fire, as described in the sidebar on page 119.

Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability.

Now here's Greater Divine Surge

Quote
A torrent of divine energy courses through you.  With supreme force of will, you channel the energy into a devastating attack even as it saps your mortal form.

As part of this maneuver, you make a single melee attack that deals an extra 6d8 points of damage.  In addition, before making this melee attack, you can also decide to take a number of points of Constitution damage equal to your initiator level or lower.  For each point of Constitution damage you take, you gain a +1 bonus to your attack roll and deal an extra 2d8 points of damage.  After using this maneuver, you are considered flat-footed until the beginning of your next turn.

Notice the lack of language about what happens if you're immune.  Notice also that what you're choosing is the amount of con damage that's going to hit you... if it bounces off because you can simply prevent that, then so be it.  You still took the hit, you just didn't care.  You took it, but unlike the living... well, you can take it.

JaronK

Ithamar

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 959
  • PM me if you're interested in some Arena action!
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2011, 07:38:20 PM »
You still took the hit, you just didn't care.  You took it, but unlike the living... well, you can take it.
No, you did not take it.  You take no CON damage at all because you are immune.  This is not a situation where ability damage is reduced or healed somehow.  If you are immune to ability damage, then there is no way to take ability damage.  The damage simply never happens.

If you like to read it that way though, I certainly "take" no offense. ;)
Are you worthy of Ascension?
Always accepting gladiators!  Now with a new and improved rule set!

Tshern

  • Clown Prince of Crime
  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5726
  • Aistii valoa auttavasti
    • Email
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2011, 09:23:09 PM »
Indeed, you do not take the damage at all, because you are outright immune to it.

Handy Links

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #71 on: May 20, 2011, 09:53:22 PM »
And how is that any different from Sanctified or Corrupted spells when you're immune to the damage?  In that case, the damage is part of the component cost of casting the spell.  If you do not "take" it due to immunity, does that mean the spell automatically fails?

JaronK

zook1shoe

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 784
    • Email
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #72 on: May 20, 2011, 10:12:10 PM »
i am leaning towards the first part of Greater Divine Surge working, but if you have no Con score or are immune to the Con damage (which btw are completely different from each other), then you cannot take Con damage to increase the spell's power.

but if you heal your Con damage that you actually take, then obviously it would work.

that is different from corrupt and divine spells, due to it being a choice when the spell is cast. kind of similar to paying extra power points to augment a psionic power.

but this same argument would mean that, corrupt and/or sanctified spells cannot work since you cannot satisfy to corruption or sacrifice cost. like trying to cast a Curse of Lycanthropy without having an animal's blood (obviously eschew materials would change that).

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2011, 10:17:30 PM »
Are the Con damage (and loss of life) counted as material components?

If so, Eschew Materials would work, as would the spell-to-power erudite's ability to spend 2 pp to ignore them.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

KellKheraptis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
  • What's the matter? I thought you had me...
    • Email
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2011, 10:24:17 PM »
Are the Con damage (and loss of life) counted as material components?

If so, Eschew Materials would work, as would the spell-to-power erudite's ability to spend 2 pp to ignore them.

Well, blood is a component costing less than 1 gp...
BG's Resident Black Hatter
The Mango List Reborn!
My Warmage Trickery (coming soon!)
My PrC Pally Trickery (coming soon!)
The D&D Archive
-Work in progress!

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2011, 10:39:59 PM »
If your DM objects, say that putting a price on life is against your alignment.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2011, 10:43:02 PM »
If your DM objects, say that putting a price on life is against your alignment.
Unless you're evil, in which case life is cheap.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

zook1shoe

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 784
    • Email
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2011, 11:01:21 PM »
Are the Con damage (and loss of life) counted as material components?

no, Curse of Lycanthropy needs blood as a material comp.

those are corrupt and sacrifice comps

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2011, 12:37:59 AM »
Are the Con damage (and loss of life) counted as material components?

If so, Eschew Materials would work, as would the spell-to-power erudite's ability to spend 2 pp to ignore them.

They're not material components, they're "sacrifice components."

JaronK

Bauglir

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2346
  • TriOptimum
Re: Fun Finds 2: (aka Tidbits Repository)
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2011, 02:38:09 AM »
The reason there's a problem is because effects are calculated based on how much Con damage you take. The fluff is irrelevant. If an Exalted or Corrupt spell's effects were based on how much damage you took, you would gain no benefit for taking ability damage you were immune to. Being immune to the damage doesn't stop you from using the ability (like it does a Hellfire Warlock), it just stops you from benefiting from things your immunity makes you immune to.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.