Need HELP!

[redek06]

So I am running the Worlds Largest City by AEG. I got a player character that is a dark creature template/chameleon template whisper gnome rogue 1st lvl. He has like a d20+40+ hide move silently check. Hes wielding a gnome hook hammer only so he can coup da grace people. If anyone gives him issues he just sucks it up, when they leave he will follows them, hide/move silently, and waits for them to go to sleep then coup da graces them. So I need help in making it harder for him to do this. maybe even deter him from doing more of this in the future without banning coup da grace altogether. I have thought of a few things like having key npc's with dogs keeping guard and having alarm spells in their house but, can anyone come up with something better?

Thanks!

[Sinfire Titan]

Anything with Blindsight or Blindsense, such as a Grell (MM), a Warblade (with the Scent stance or Blindsense stance).

Covering the floor in flour/walnut shells.


Consider changing the DC for CDGing someone. Maybe 10+BAB instead of being damage based.

[redek06]

So I just found out he has the Darkstalker feat from the Lords of Madness book. So Scent/Blindsight/Blindsense/Tremorsense is out of the question. So I guess im down to only traps....

[Sinfire Titan]

So I just found out he has the Darkstalker feat from the Lords of Madness book. So Scent/Blindsight/Blindsense/Tremorsense is out of the question. So I guess im down to only traps....

Mindsight from the same book defeats it.

[redek06]

Nice, I'll look into Mindsight.
Can anyone think of anything else, even magical traps? I am trying to deter him from offing all the high level npc's in the city.

[SneeR]

High-level NPCs have high-level NPC loot, which translates directly into all sorts of great things: guards that never sleep, light armor he can sleep in that makes him immune to criticals (MIC), contingency spells cast upon him, maybe a permanent spectral hand for him with a wand of shivering touch always in hand powered by a ring of UMD +10 & Cloak of CHA +6 (3d6 DEX HURTS a DEX-based sneak, especially if he gets hit twice or more!). He should have a Ring of Sustenance, so not much sleeping anyways!

Some strategies:
Several traps of Acid Fog or Solid Fog joined with Cloudkill surrounding the NPC's bed; the NPC is wearing a Necklace of Adaptation, so vapor-based effects do not affect him, including the Cloudkill effects. You cannot coup-de-grace what you cannot see.
The NPC has a caster use the Guards and Wards spell every night with everything surrounding the NPC.
The spells Alarm and Greater Alarm come in handy here.
Traps of the spell Entice Gift from Draconomicon targets Will (rogue weak save) and forces him to hand his weapon over to the NPC.
There is a spell that produces a stupid clone of you that obeys for a few hours. Have that sleep in the same bed next the NPC. Rogue has to choose which one to coup-de-grace, and the various wardings listed above will alert the NPC if he chooses wrong.
Also, Explosive Runes. Have curtains covered in them surroundingthe NPC's bed at a distance of 15 ft. Even if the rogue tries to disarm it, it will go off and alert the NPC.
Using the above Cloak of CHA and ring of UMD, have a junkload of scrolls of Dimension Door and Teleport on hand.

Enough money makes any one PC futile.

[rot42]

There is a spell that produces a stupid clone of you that obeys for a few hours.

Create Fetch, Complete Scoundrel page 96. Detect Magic and Detect Thoughts reveal its nature, as does touching it.

Pressure plates, trip wires, and the like should help with the gnome assassin; even a middling successful merchant can afford traps that a 1st level rogue cannot beat (unless there are bonuses to Search/Disable in those templates too). The city guards should be all in a tizzy if people start mysteriously dying in their homes, and the wealthy merchants will be clamoring to buy magical protection. Roving squads of low level guards will have 0.95^N chance of not rolling a natural 20 (see: Iterative Probability Proofing).

I am not familiar with the module, but I would try to role play them out of the habit with time-sensitive goals and missed opportunities. If the major domo of a wealthy house hires the PCs to track down the nightstalker menace, the gnome is going to be too busy all night to break into any more houses.

[SneeR]

There is a spell that produces a stupid clone of you that obeys for a few hours.

Create Fetch, Complete Scoundrel page 96. Detect Magic and Detect Thoughts reveal its nature, as does touching it.

Funny thing, that.
Rogues can't cast Detect Magic or Detect Thoughts, and touching someone who you plan to coup-de-grace in their sleep makes that course of action difficult when they wake up...

[veekie]

One other trick, use Fire Shield or some similar backlash spell on the victims coupled to a contingent(i,e, single use Use Activated) healing item.

[RobbyPants]

There are all kinds of low-level ways to thwart this, too.  Assuming the person he wants to kill is semi-paranoid, they can just try to rig their place up to detect quite or invisible people.  Balancing a bottle or bell or something on a door knob would make noise when opened, even if the rogue is moving silently.  All he has to do is rig the obvious entrances to his bedroom with similar things so that he's not helpless when the rogue comes bursting in.

I mean, even a commoner can get lucky on untrained skill checks and sneak in to CDG someone.  Anyone who's worried about assassination will take precautions.  And that's not even counting the myriad of magical means to thwart this.

Good luck!

[wotmaniac]

I got a player character that is a dark creature template/chameleon template whisper gnome rogue 1st lvl. [...] If anyone gives him issues he just sucks it up, when they leave he will follows them, hide/move silently, and waits for them to go to sleep then coup da graces them.

as I see it, you've got 2 problems:
1) you're too permissive
  a) just look at that racial chassis .... are you f'n serious?  you're just asking for trouble.
  b) why are you letting him get away with these shenanigans?  if you're not comfortable with this style of play, then say something and stand your ground.
2) your player is a dick (unless you are intentionally encouraging this style of play .... in which case, see #1).
he's only doing this because you're letting him get away with it.  seriously, this guy needs to grow up; but he's not going to do so until you interject yourself.


:twocents:

[SneeR]

as I see it, you've got 2 problems:
1) you're too permissive
  a) just look at that racial chassis .... are you f'n serious?  you're just asking for trouble.
  b) why are you letting him get away with these shenanigans?  if you're not comfortable with this style of play, then say something and stand your ground.
:twocents:

Yeah, what I suggested pretty much assumed that since such a ridiculous build was allowed in the first place you wanted to encourage this kind of play.

If you don't want this sort of play, you need to pull the player aside and ask him to tone it down.
Otherwise, see the above traps. I'm actually pretty proud of them!

[redek06]

This is his normal type of character he enjoys to play.... I normally never allow LA but, this game I allowed LA+2 to let the players have some freedom. It sucks you have to ban alot of things just because one player goes over the top when building his character. I would just ban him altogether but, if I lose him then I lose another player because they are friends. So I try to play around his characters. It's normally not to hard but, this time it's pretty difficult.
We played lastnight and the pc's went out of the city to complete a mission and the gnome got within 2 points of actually dying to Orc bowmen and a cr2 trap. He didn't max out his search and disable trap I guess. I think between giving the pc time sensitive goals and some basic traps I think I can keep the pc in check. I really like the idea of the pc even being hired to hunt down the " nightstalker " once he starts offing people in their sleep.
Thanks for all the ideas you guys gave me. I'll keep you posted on how it works.

[ZeroSpace]

Now, when you say, 'This is normally what he plays', do you mean in regards to the sneaky stabby type, or the spiteful/disruptive type? The first just requires a short 'Dude, lay off the dickishness' warning. The latter requires you to reconsider whether or not you want the guy in your game.

[genuine]

I think everyone might be looking at this wrong. The knee-jerk reaction is to find ways to prevent his assassinations. Instead of thinking 'how do I make it harder to keep him from assassinating NPCs,' try thinking 'what is the city going to do when confronted by a rash of assassinations?'

I've never looked at largest city myself, so I don't know about the political structure involved, but I can't imagine a social structure in which a handful of murders with a similar MO (i.e. while victim is sleeping, inside the home/bedroom, using a blunt hammer, etc.) not creating some upset. People will start spending more on various protections (additional guards, spells, traps, etc.), but they'll also start taking proactive measures. If it's a fairly lawful town then the authorities will begin looking into it. If it's an evil town the assassin's guild might get upset about territory encroachment, if it's a chaotic place then bounty hunters hired by fearful potential targets and the families of victims will start showing up.

A few knowledge checks on the NPCs part aught to reveal things like: Assassin had Hide in Plain sight (perhaps even that he had the shadow subtype), Assassin was small sized, Assassin uses a gnome hammer, all the victims had recently had a somewhat hostile conversation with a certain shadow-typed gnome with a hammer before they died. Even if he's not leaving any proof sufficient for a modern American court doesn't mean he's not leaving enough proof to satisfy a corrupt city magistrate. Or a 'preferably dead' bounty hunter. This isn't even considering the various divination methods available. Does he have mind-blank? A decent level wizard aught to be able to get a name and other basic info pretty quick...

See how well the gnome likes his tactics when a higher level Kalashtar (With mindsight) urban ranger with favored enemy (shadow) shows up and begins running him down.

The key here is that you're not putting on your DM hat and saying 'No, you can't do your favorite thing anymore' - and that is what you're doing if suddenly all the guards have mind-sight somehow (let alone house-ruling Coup de Grace out the window). Instead you're putting on your DM hat and saying 'There are consequences to your actions.' Don't be reactive in shutting down behavior you don't like, be proactive.

[veekie]

Basically the "Yes, but" option, "Yes you killed them successfully, but theres now a witch hunt for the killer and people getting lynched."

The three 'good' options:
Yes, but... - You get what you want, things go wrong
Yes, and... - You get what you want, a third avenue unlocks
No, but... - You don't get what you want, but something else unlocks