Author Topic: Interesting stuff in PF  (Read 52692 times)

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Prime32

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #160 on: August 07, 2011, 03:20:43 PM »
Well, it was kinda overpowered before... :)
The proficiency was the only part I cared about, really.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #161 on: August 07, 2011, 04:12:39 PM »
Well, it was kinda overpowered before... :)
The proficiency was the only part I cared about, really.
Yes. It wasn't so much overpowered as it was a way to give your character a cool weapon without wasting a feat amidst a bunch of bland, small bonuses. Had they just turned the +1 to hit into the bonuses there are now, it'd have been a drop in power, but fine. Now there's no reason to take it, at all.
Also, now that MW weapons are not allowed, you also can't enchant the thing, meaning it's now absolutely useless. The free weapon focus was minor, really. They went from that to making the whole thing a waste of a trait, which is saying something.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

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StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #162 on: August 07, 2011, 04:26:40 PM »
Well, before it was basically weapon focus + exotic weapon proficiency + free masterwork cost, when traits are supposed to be about half as good as a feat, so it was kind of ridiculous.  Now that it doesn't even give exotic proficiency and can't be masterwork, it is pretty useless, though.

If it just gave you proficiency with the weapon and let you "unlock" the masterwork quality by doing some 24 hour ceremony and spending 300 gp later on, it'd probably be fine.

Agita

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #163 on: August 07, 2011, 05:16:24 PM »
Well, before it was basically weapon focus + exotic weapon proficiency + free masterwork cost, when traits are supposed to be about half as good as a feat, so it was kind of ridiculous.  Now that it doesn't even give exotic proficiency and can't be masterwork, it is pretty useless, though.
Masterwork cost is 300 gold. At lvl 1 and lvl 2, that's neat, even kind of a big deal, beyond that it's hardly worth mentioning. EWP and Weapon Focus are both an absolute waste of a feat slot. I'd call both together maybe on the upper end of what "half a feat slot" is worth, maybe a bit above that.
What it is absurd for is exotic weapons that are worth the feat slot on their own, but that's not so much a problem with the trait.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 05:18:19 PM by Agita »
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Prime32

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #164 on: August 07, 2011, 05:57:02 PM »
I'd go with making "proficiency with one type of weapon" a trait, and having a "Master of Arms" feat which makes you proficient with everything.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #165 on: August 07, 2011, 07:06:32 PM »
Well, before it was basically weapon focus + exotic weapon proficiency + free masterwork cost, when traits are supposed to be about half as good as a feat, so it was kind of ridiculous.  Now that it doesn't even give exotic proficiency and can't be masterwork, it is pretty useless, though.
Masterwork cost is 300 gold. At lvl 1 and lvl 2, that's neat, even kind of a big deal, beyond that it's hardly worth mentioning. EWP and Weapon Focus are both an absolute waste of a feat slot. I'd call both together maybe on the upper end of what "half a feat slot" is worth, maybe a bit above that.
What it is absurd for is exotic weapons that are worth the feat slot on their own, but that's not so much a problem with the trait.

It has to be balanced against what exists.  A trait that gives you free proficiency AND free masterwork weapon makes the Rich Parents trait look like dogcrap.  A trait that gives free Exotic Proficiency and what's efectively weapon focus makes both of those feats look like crap, too.  You want to make the similar feats/traits better, then fine, but without changing them, Heirloom Weapon was WAAAAY too good, and would remain so if it gave EWP + free money.

And if you don't think the 300 gp is a big deal ultimately, why would you be opposed to making the HW user pay for it?  It's not a big deal, after all.

veekie

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #166 on: August 07, 2011, 07:35:15 PM »
^^
Well, the old version was
Proficient with a single specific weapon - Half of Weapon Proficiency feat
Weapon Focus with a single specific weapon - Half of Weapon Focus feat
Masterworking - Half of a trait.

Personally, I'd just make it:
Proficient with a single specific weapon, which you buy with your normal wealth.

That said, there IS a cure for the masterworking problem!
Masterwork Transformation to the rescue!
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Prime32

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #167 on: August 07, 2011, 07:49:16 PM »
That said, there IS a cure for the masterworking problem!
Masterwork Transformation to the rescue!
According to the thread I linked, in official play instantaneous spells wear off eventually. Which means you have to cast that spell and reenchant the weapon for every game.

I'm baffled as to why they forbid masterwork weapons if you still have to pay for them normally. Right now the trait's fluff is "my weapon is more special" and its mechanics are "my weapon is less special".
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #168 on: August 07, 2011, 08:06:46 PM »
Well, you'd need your other trait in Rich Parents or some other means of higher starting wealth (or starting above level 1) to actually be able to pay for your masterwork weapon.  But yeah, if you can pay for it, you should be able to make it your HW, making it HAVE to be a non-masterwork weapon is dumb.

Masterwork transformation: It's great that exists!  Prime, that's pretty lame if your Dm would have it wear off, instantaneous means the magic's gone, just the result remains.  And you're paying the 300 gp, it's not like you're cheating the system.

That said...why does it always have to be magic that solves everything?  Why can't a smith just enhance a normal weapon to become masterwork using the craft skill?  Ditto for increasing the draw on a strength bow?  Why is this crap impossible to alter without magical assistance?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 08:10:10 PM by StreamOfTheSky »

Prime32

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #169 on: August 07, 2011, 08:35:59 PM »
Masterwork transformation: It's great that exists!  Prime, that's pretty lame if your Dm would have it wear off, instantaneous means the magic's gone, just the result remains.  And you're paying the 300 gp, it's not like you're cheating the system.
Read the thread. In PFS play, instantaneous spells wear off. Including spells which create creatures, so no creating utopias where skeletons do all the work.

Also from that thread: It doesn't say a smith can't enhance weapons, therefore he can.

...excuse me, I'm just going to be in this soundproof room for a second.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #170 on: August 08, 2011, 01:38:43 AM »
Is there a rule unique to PFS that ISN'T freaking retarded?  Because every time someone mentions "How something works in PF Society," it's had a 100% success rate of getting me to think, "that's freaking retarded!" thus far.

That's almost as bad as the whole, "Rangers will only ever be able to choose animals from the ones listed in the original class entry, no matter how many new monster books come out nor even if the animal entry specifically says rangers can have them.  Oh, druids?  Yeah, they're fine.  They can take any new animal companions that pop up in new books."

veekie

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #171 on: August 08, 2011, 01:51:41 AM »
Organized Play tends to be retarded in a special way to begin with.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #172 on: August 09, 2011, 12:27:53 AM »
In other news, Monks continue to lag behind the other classes at doing even the very, very specific crap their entire class is supposed to be the best at.

Quote from: Ultimate Combat
Unarmed Style: At 1st level, a unarmed fighter gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and any single style feat (see Chapter 3) as a bonus feat. The unarmed fighter need not meet all the prerequisites of the style feat he chooses, but style feats that grant additional uses of the Elemental Fist feat cannot be taken until the unarmed fighter has that feat. This ability replaces the bonus feat at 1st level.

In case you're wondering, the style feats that work with Elemental Fist are pretty much without exception the absolute crappiest styles in the book anyway, so not getting them is no loss at all.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 12:29:36 AM by StreamOfTheSky »

Prime32

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #173 on: August 09, 2011, 01:01:08 AM »
In other news, Monks continue to lag behind the other classes at doing even the very, very specific crap their entire class is supposed to be the best at.
To improve monks:
  • Make ki regenerate at a rate of 1 per round.
  • Remove that silly "full BAB for everything except prerequisites" thing and just give them full BAB.
  • Grant an extra swift action per turn at 10th and 20th level.
  • Grant Ki Diversity as a bonus feat. Every version of it.
And use archetypes well.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #174 on: August 09, 2011, 01:11:22 AM »
I already have a thread in the homebrew section for PF monks.  I'm gonna give them genuine full BAB, and a crapload of other stuff.

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #175 on: August 14, 2011, 04:46:10 AM »
OMG!  Sohei Monk is my new favorite dip!  The best part is that the class is hilariously godawful going 1-20, but the first two levels are AMAZING for dipping.  It gets full simple/martial weapon proficiency and light armor.  It gets Handle Animal as a class skill.  It trades Stunning Fist for the ability to always act in a surprise round.  And best of all...

Quote from: Ultimate Combat
Bonus Feats: A sohei may select mounted combat feats as bonus feats.

Without any stipulation to the contrary, we fall back on what the core rule book says regarding monk bonus feats:

Quote from: PRD
A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

 :lmao

So...

Mounted Skirmisher (Combat)
You are adept at attacking from upon a swift moving steed.

Prerequisites: Ride rank 14, Mounted Combat, Trick Riding.

Benefit: If your mount moves its speed or less, you can still take a full-attack action.

Normal: If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action.
 

Trick Riding (Combat)
You are not only skilled at controlling a horse in combat; you can make it look like art.

Prerequisites: Ride 9 ranks, Mounted Combat.

Benefit: While wearing light or no armor, you do not need to make Ride skill checks for any task listed in the Ride skill with a DC of 15 or lower. You do not take a –5 penalty for riding a mount bareback. You can make a check using Mounted Combat to negate a hit on your mount twice per round instead of just once.


Anyone else notice crazy high level mounted feats that could be useful to this dip?  :D

veekie

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #176 on: August 14, 2011, 12:18:47 PM »
At this rate the Monk will be fantastic at doing anything except being a monk.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Prime32

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #177 on: August 14, 2011, 03:32:07 PM »
The godling classes are now up on the SRD, and the magus gets an enormous number of new archetypes and arcana. Some of the latter are pretty interesting, such as an archetype which trades spells for seven inquisitor inquisitions (note that they give things like rage) and can use three of them per round, and an arcana which gives you quickened telekinesis.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 03:33:54 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: Interesting stuff in PF
« Reply #178 on: August 15, 2011, 11:07:48 AM »
Links to each of those. It's a bit hard to find them from vague descriptions. >: |
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Prime32

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« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 12:43:20 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]