Just Going to Put This Out There... PF/3.5 E6 or E8, for Fun

[kevin_video]

I'm still interested, don't get me wrong. I was just under the impression that guards and such would be fully trusted and allowed to use the best tools at their disposel to do their jobs.

After all, when weapons are out-lawed, only the outlaws will have weapons. 

Unfortunately not. They're most cautious about guards because they're the ones closest to the one you're supposed to protect. It's a paranoia thing that the hierarchy has.

While that may be true, that also means you'll never, ever be out of a job. No?

[kevin_video]

If anyone's having trouble figuring out what their starting wealth is for their character, just let me know and I'll help figure it out for you. Fighters, paladins, and rangers definitely get the most amount of money if they've got an occupation. Monks have the least with only ever getting 60 gold, no matter what the case happens to be.

[ShadowViper]

It's max class or max occupation right? Or it is max class and max occupation?

Also, no LA races allowed, correct? If not I was considering an Asimar(sp).

And I think stat-wise my character is good to go pretty much.

[kevin_video]

It's max class or max occupation right? Or it is max class and max occupation?

Also, no LA races allowed, correct? If not I was considering an Asimar(sp).

And I think stat-wise my character is good to go pretty much.

It's both, as stated in Tome of Secrets. Normally a paladin gets 5d6x10, but because you have a job, you only get 3d4x10 plus your occupation. Yours is Guardian so you get another 3d4x10. This makes your total 240 gold. The compensation for the 60 gold you lose, you get three additional skills added to your skill list.

That's right, no LA races. They don't exist in PF, and you'd get less than 32 points for stats if you could take one. Aasimars are pretty rare so you'd have to come up with a decent backstory as to how you came about this town, much like I had arcanis do for his oakling character. They're not part of the core races. You can be part of the 1% other races that are in the town.

[ShadowViper]

Hmm must have missed that part. Not really sure though if the arbitrary loss of 60 gold is worth +1 to two skills and another skill added to the class list.

[archangel.arcanis]

I'll need some help figuring out my starting gold as well. The only PF info I have is from that site linked to earlier.

[LordBlades]

So we're using the DR option for armor after all, right? Well, looks like Mage Armor will be slightly less useless than I thought  

A couple more questions:

-the table in tome of Secrets only lists core classes for gold by class. How much would the others get?
- would you allow Force of Personality (feat from the 3.5 Complete Adventurer)? PF is really horrible in regard to caster feats (apart from metamagic feats, most of which are pretty useless in E6, all you have left is (greater) spell focus, imp. initiative and item creation feats)
-does Augment summoning work on Summoner's Summon Monster SLA? (by RAW it doesn't since it's not a spell, but it's the only summoning related feat in PF).
-are there any laws in regard to wearing armor, summoned creatures and/or spells?
-the eidolon's armor bonus will also be reduced by half and the other half used as DR?

[kevin_video]

@ ShadowViper -- Yes, but you're getting free land to live on, and you get a character background with a job so you end up getting a salary as opposed to a straight paladin that doesn't earn any money other than by adventuring. You'll make it up during the winter months.

@ archangel.arcanis -- I'll PM you what you'll likely need.

@ LordBlades -- Ah, but you get mage armor AND shield. Which almost balances things out. Kind of, but not really.
The amount of gold listed is for the base classes, and not even the base classes in the book. I actually had to go and find that. Basically you take the one that's closest to you, which unfortunately sucks because wizards, sorcerers, warlocks, and I guess summoners get 0 base gold. So all the money you'd get would be based on your occupation.
No Force of Personality. At least not yet. There's more feats to choose from than you think. Check these ones out. They're new.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/collaborators/work-area/paizo-products/pathfinder-rpg-line/ultimate-magic There's a few for the Summoner class. This last book was designed specifically with mages in mind.
If RAW the feat doesn't, then I'd have to say no to it as well. It does work RAW.

[LordBlades]

I was only checking the feats DB and in there I don't have that much  There are a few interesting feats in Ultimate Magic. Thanks for pointing that out.

Actually using armor as DR is a pretty decent buff for me. With standard rules, a chain shirt gives +4 AC and Mage Armor is useless(for me, not for eidolon though). With DR rules, I get +2 AC and +2 DR, and I could cast Mage Armor for +2 more AC.

[kevin_video]

Actually using armor as DR is a pretty decent buff for me. With standard rules, a chain shirt gives +4 AC and Mage Armor is useless(for me, not for eidolon though). With DR rules, I get +2 AC and +2 DR, and I could cast Mage Armor for +2 more AC.

No you couldn't, actually, but nice try. An armor bonus is still an armor bonus, regardless of where you get it from. So mage armor would work exactly as a chain shirt does +2 AC/2 DR. However, a shield spell works like a shield, and you don't get any DR from that, so it stacks.

[LordBlades]

Actually using armor as DR is a pretty decent buff for me. With standard rules, a chain shirt gives +4 AC and Mage Armor is useless(for me, not for eidolon though). With DR rules, I get +2 AC and +2 DR, and I could cast Mage Armor for +2 more AC.

No you couldn't, actually, but nice try. An armor bonus is still an armor bonus, regardless of where you get it from. So mage armor would work exactly as a chain shirt does +2 AC/2 DR. However, a shield spell works like a shield, and you don't get any DR from that, so it stacks.

Well, the SRD page that you linked refers to armor (the item), not anything(like spells, class features etc.)  that grants an armor bonus to AC.  I got no issue if you want to houserule it this way, but it's not how the system as presented works. Also, houseruling it this way presents the following problem: due to 'The damage reduction granted by armor stacks with other damage reduction of the same type' (quote from the SRD) means that you could use armor, some AC granting spells and stack the DR to some pretty meaningful values, so that might need looking into.

[kevin_video]

I don't see what you're referring to.

For armors not covered on Table: Armor and Damage Reduction, you can determine the new armor values and damage reduction based on the standard armor bonus.

And the reference they make to the stacking DR is a barbarian with DR/- and armor giving you DR/-, which stacks. This of course doesn't stack with the stoneskin spell or a warlock's DR/cold iron. Having bracers of armor and full plate and greater mage armor would not stack for DR purposes. They'd overlap just like it normally would.

[LordBlades]

I don't see what you're referring to.

For armors not covered on Table: Armor and Damage Reduction, you can determine the new armor values and damage reduction based on the standard armor bonus.

And the reference they make to the stacking DR is a barbarian with DR/- and armor giving you DR/-, which stacks. This of course doesn't stack with the stoneskin spell or a warlock's DR/cold iron. Having bracers of armor and full plate and greater mage armor would not stack for DR purposes. They'd overlap just like it normally would.

Thaat quote (at least the way I understand it) refers to armors (the actual items). If they wanted to encompass everything that grants an armor bonus to AC the sentece would have said 'for armor bonuses' not 'for armors'.

Also, the barbarian is just an example. The general rule is stated in the sentence above (that the damage reduction granted by armor stacks with any other DR/-, not Stoneskin and Warlock DR which are /adamantine and /cold iron respectively). Not trying to make a point that they should stack, merely that this is how RAW works in this case.

[kevin_video]

Thaat quote (at least the way I understand it) refers to armors (the actual items). If they wanted to encompass everything that grants an armor bonus to AC the sentece would have said 'for armor bonuses' not 'for armors'.

Also, the barbarian is just an example. The general rule is stated in the sentence above (that the damage reduction granted by armor stacks with any other DR/-, not Stoneskin and Warlock DR which are /adamantine and /cold iron respectively). Not trying to make a point that they should stack, merely that this is how RAW works in this case.

I asked on Simple Questions and will hopefully get an answer. The main reason is because they don't mention bracers of armor, which should be the same thing. I mean, if Wonder Woman can block attacks, surely D&D bracers can absorb damage too.

It says that armor stacks with any other DR/-, not that armor DR stacks with armor DR. They even mention that shields don't get DR.

It seems we're interpreting what everything says very differently. That's a big problem with RAW.

[LordBlades]

I asked on Simple Questions and will hopefully get an answer. The main reason is because they don't mention bracers of armor, which should be the same thing. I mean, if Wonder Woman can block attacks, surely D&D bracers can absorb damage too.

It says that armor stacks with any other DR/-, not that armor DR stacks with armor DR. They even mention that shields don't get DR.

It seems we're interpreting what everything says very differently. That's a big problem with RAW.

Looks like no answer yet. Tbh, if you want to houserule that all things that grant an armor bonus or natural armor bonus to AC(items, spells, class features etc.) get their bonus reduced by half (or 1/5 in case of natural armor) and converted into DR, and that this kind of DR doesn't stack (although the one coming from armor should stack with the one coming from natural armor) then I got no problem with it.

[Mixster]

I would like to use the pirate archetype, but I suggest having: Perform (Wicked Curses), Bluff and Diplomacy added to the list of skills he can increase. My character concept has changed a bit, having him as someone who is a pirate, but pretends to be business man. (actually he's a little of both, attacking minor ships when it's possible and flying friendly colours and being all talkative when not. He's been serving under somebody else, who is his captain).

A longer background story will come, expect it to be full of lying stealing and backstabbing swashbucklery.

When you decide whether with AC and DR and stuff, can you update the list of house rules so I'm clear on it? Thanks.

So what license does one need exactly to have a sword? I'm thinking my character was given one by his foster father, who is the former pirate captain (who has fought in the navy before going rogue).

[LordBlades]

PS: does the max HP rule apply in any way to the eidolon?

[kevin_video]

@ LordBlades -- I was hoping that it would be answered by now, but may it's not a simple question.
Okay, this is how I'll have it. Armor works like it did before in that armor bonuses can't stack with each other (hide armor vs bracers of armor vs mage armor spell), but different types of armor can stack with each other, including DR. For example, if someone were to be wearing a +1 chain shirt, an amulet of natural armor +5, a ring of deflection +2, and a +1 shield, their total AC would be +3/2 DR plus +4/1 DR plus +1/1 DR plus +5 for a total of +13 AC and 4 DR. This works for mage armor and bracers of armor in the same fashion.
I had to re-read your summons because I thought the hp might be the same as it is for familiars, but yours is actually better in that they get an actual HD. So, yes. Your little buddy gets full hp each HD.

@ Mixster -- There is no pirate archetype. Just the Sea Singer. Do you mean the occupation from ToS? If it's not there, then you can't have those three skills. It may not make sense, but neither does a knight not having diplomacy. The occupation tries to not overlap skills that you're already going to have with an obvious class, like Bluff and Diplomacy. They try to make up for this with giving you access to the Persuasive feat. Then again, not too many pirates are diplomatic.

Just so you know, what happens on the sea, stays on the sea, so long as you sink it. Also, and this goes for everyone, once you're off this continent, the sea is lawless (although the navy tries to fix that). It's anything goes. Also, other continents have different laws, if any.

Anyone can have a sword, but legally you have to be knighted (or be the descendant of one), a noble, or part of the church (or navy which is technically the same). You are given a scroll that gives you permission to have it. Also, at sea, since it's basically lawless, you can have one.

[VennDygrem]

As far as class gold bonuses go, compare your class's base starting wealth with that of one of the core classes. For instance, Alchemist gets 3d6x10, like the Bard. So one would look under the bard, and find that the gp bonus is 1d4x10.

I do have a question in this regard: Did you say we're getting max gold, or are we taking the average as usual?

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As for Armor/DR, I'd suggest using the rules I mentioned earlier about combining the defense bonus rules and the armor as DR rule; They mention that one could wear armor and gain DR with a lower AC, but use their defense bonus in place of the AC.

Combo: Defense Bonus And Damage Reduction

Because the character gets the higher of his defense bonus or armor bonus, the character can wear armor and benefit from its damage reduction while relying on his defense bonus for a higher Armor Class.

The Defense bonus is described as an Armor bonus that applies to touch attacks, much the same as Mage Armor is described. It's not my place, but I'd rule that this works the same way.

[kevin_video]

Yes, you get max gold for your class and occupation. Also, yes, the 1d4x10 gold would be the right one to take. An Artificer gets the same amount.

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I'm not a fan of that defense bonus ruling, if only because it's not as balanced as the other version I've played. If I did, it'd be the second way.

That's how the other game system worked, and it's what I know best. It makes sense that you can't dodge as well while wearing armor.