Metabreath ramblings

[turok124]

"NO ZUKO!  The fire comes from the BREATH, not the muscles!"
-Iroh

this has PROBABLY been done already, but i haven't seen it.  so here's my take


I've been thinking more about Lycanthomancer's idea with using the Dragonborn (heart) template to gain metabreath feats early on, then really putting it to use through a spell or power (in Lycanthromancer's thinking...the Gemstone Breath power).  So i'm hoping to make that count a step further by making it so you can use the metabreath weapons EVERY ROUND.  Most of what i have here are thoughts that have been swirling around in my brain all day, i really hope this makes sense


Let's start with this build (trying to go for something that can get this working as low a level as possible)

race:  Dragonborn (base race is currently flexible)
we just want the breath weapon to qualify for the feats


Class:  Mantled (natural world) Psychic Warrior 9/Warshaper5/PsyWar6
Mantled gives us access to Metamorphosis.  Warsharper gives us +4 con and multimorph.



Important Feats (NOT in order of the build):
-Assume Supernatural ability
-Practiced Manifester
-Quicken Breath
-Clinging Breath
-Lingering Breath
-Heighten Breath

How it works:
Use metamorphosis to turn into a creature and use its breath weapon with all the metabreath goodness (especially Quicken) added onto it.  Next round, use warshaper's Multimorph ability to switch forms as a standard action for no cost.  Assume the new form's breath weapon and repeat the process.  Wash, Rinse, Repeat.  Total cost of the combo: 7 power points

Why we care:
Breath Weapons are great for damage and debuffing.  Metabreath feats add battlefield control.

Forms of note (mostly after a quick glance from draconomicon):
-switching between pyrohydras and cryohydras do PLENTY of hurt.
-Shadow Dragons for negative levels
-pyroclastic dragons for disintegrate
-metallic dragons for various status effects
-Styx dragon for Int damage
-Rust dragon's rusting breath



Why Psychic Warrior?
bonus feats help it to be slightly more than a one-trick pony.  Wisdom is used both manifesting AND will save for Assume Supernatural Ability.  Decent hit points are always nice.


IF we're starting at level 17 or higher:
Shapechange is a much nicer alternative to warshaper levels.  DMM cleric can have the spell going all day long and you don't need Assume Supernatural Ability at all.  Battle Sorceror variant (for the BAB and hit points) would be able to get Metabreath SPELLS in the mix of it all.


i think that's about everything i've had so far.

thoughts?

[awaken DM golem]

With this combo, you get the Metamorph at level 15,
and have only 27 base ppoints.
The rest of the PsyWar festing is kinda lost.

I feel a hint of "carnivore" -esque thinking,
to say Psion would get it sooner, with more juice.
Or Erudite.

[Lycanthromancer]

Well, sharing gemstone breath with your psicrystal allows you to use a breath weapon every round, and so long as you use metabreath feats judiciously, you should be able to do fairly well.

Round 1: Gemstone breath shared with psicrystal, psicrystal sneezes.
Round 2: You use gemstone breath with a +2 metabreath feat (or 2 +1s) applied.
Round 3: Psicrystal sneezes again.
Round 4: You use your racial breath weapon.
Round 5: Guess what your psicrystal does again!
Round 6: Use gemstone breath again.
Round 7: Psicrystal again.

Meanwhile you can do other things when your pet rock huffs hellacious halitosis on your foes.

[turok124]

With this combo, you get the Metamorph at level 15,
and have only 27 base ppoints.
The rest of the PsyWar festing is kinda lost.

I feel a hint of "carnivore" -esque thinking,
to say Psion would get it sooner, with more juice.
Or Erudite.

yeah...true point.

would a dragonborn changeling still be able to take the egoist substitution levels?  Being able to get Metamorphosis at level 5 would help.

Ardents might also be a better choice due to better will saves and possible advantages with Dominant Ideal (quicken power?).  I would also want to Expand Knowledge (schism) and use the schism standard actions for changing shape, then use my main standard action for maximized breathing.


as for the uber broken end of things:

Human Divine Minion +1 (easy buy-off) warblade 3/master of many forms 10/warshaper 4/warblade 3

warblade isn't necessary...just liked hp and concentration based maneuvers.

access to 25 HD creatures (with improved wild shaping feat).  free-action shapeshifting lets you changing into things and quicken breaths as many times you want in one round.

[Lycanthromancer]

would a dragonborn changeling still be able to take the egoist substitution levels?  Being able to get Metamorphosis at level 5 would help.

You lose nearly everything else that makes you a changeling, but you still count as a changeling for prereqs, so yes.

[turok124]

would a dragonborn changeling still be able to take the egoist substitution levels?  Being able to get Metamorphosis at level 5 would help.

You lose nearly everything else that makes you a changeling, but you still count as a changeling for prereqs, so yes.

well, an ACF for egoist gives them the same changeling shapeshifting for your first bonus feat (if you really want it).  still, getting access to the combo by level 10 (for a decent chunk of your power points-25 base power points) counts for something.

[Lycanthromancer]

would a dragonborn changeling still be able to take the egoist substitution levels?  Being able to get Metamorphosis at level 5 would help.

You lose nearly everything else that makes you a changeling, but you still count as a changeling for prereqs, so yes.

well, an ACF for egoist gives them the same changeling shapeshifting for your first bonus feat (if you really want it).  still, getting access to the combo by level 10 (for a decent chunk of your power points-25 base power points) counts for something.

Warforged dragonborn are still warforged, keep their subtype (which is where most of their racial goodness resides), and you can take a feat to give you the armor that's removed when you become dragonborn.

Plus I think you can use a feat to restore your slam, too. So basically if you want to burn two feats, you lose nothing.

This isn't too bad, in comparison.

[turok124]

honestly, i'm not AGAINST using flaws, i just don't have any experience with them.  any suggestions on those?

[Tshern]

Shaky and Vulnerable. -2 to ranged attack and -1 to AC.

[SorO_Lost]

Well, sharing gemstone breath with your psicrystal allows you to use a breath weapon every round, and so long as you use metabreath feats judiciously, you should be able to do fairly well.

o.O

A.

You can use this breath weapon as a standard action, but you can't use it in consecutive rounds.

B.

To take a metabreath feat, a creature must have a breath weapon whose time between breaths is expressed in rounds. Therefore, a hell hound (which can breathe once every 2d4 rounds) can take metabreath feats, whereas a behir (breath weapon usable 1/minute) cannot.

A: No you can't use Gemstone Breath every round.
B: "1 minute" can be expressed as "10 rounds" but as the rules note "1 minute" is not valid so personal interpretation of delays and/or intervals converted to rounds is in fact against the rules.

C: Even if Gemstone Breath has no delay, eer I mean once per round or whatever, the metabreath's interaction trumps the delay. Obviously.
It's like saying Maximize Breath doesn't increase the delay because your breath weapon states it can be used once per 1d4 rounds. >.>

[CantripN]

1 - You can take Metabreath feat because your Racial Breath Weapon (Dragonborn - Heart) is valid. Once you have the feat, it applies to any and all Breath Weapons you have, regardless of whether they would qualify for the feats.

2 - You're not using the Gemstone Breath on consecutive rounds - 2 different creatures are using that power, each using his own.

[SorO_Lost]

1 - You can take Metabreath feat because your Racial Breath Weapon (Dragonborn - Heart) is valid. Once you have the feat, it applies to any and all Breath Weapons you have, regardless of whether they would qualify for the feats.

2 - You're not using the Gemstone Breath on consecutive rounds - 2 different creatures are using that power, each using his own.

1. Do feats []really[/b] work like that? I want a rules quote, otherwise I'm going to stick to you cannot use something that doesn't meet the prerequisites. IE just because Arcane Strike states you expend a spell slot (rather than arcane spell slot) you cannot use divine spell slots to power it.

2. Missed that.

[Lycanthromancer]

1 - You can take Metabreath feat because your Racial Breath Weapon (Dragonborn - Heart) is valid. Once you have the feat, it applies to any and all Breath Weapons you have, regardless of whether they would qualify for the feats.

2 - You're not using the Gemstone Breath on consecutive rounds - 2 different creatures are using that power, each using his own.

1. Do feats []really[/b] work like that? I want a rules quote, otherwise I'm going to stick to you cannot use something that doesn't meet the prerequisites. IE just because Arcane Strike states you expend a spell slot (rather than arcane spell slot) you cannot use divine spell slots to power it.

Gemstone Breath explicitly grants you a breath weapon, and the recharge time IS numbered in rounds. In this case, 1 round. It's right there in the power.

I wanted to use dragonborn (heart) to get feats prior to 7th level. Flaws and early levels allow you a lot more feats than you'd get just from 9-18.