A little help optimizing the following thought experiment

[Amechra]

Alright, we take the Warlock.

Now, instead of learning invocations from the usual list, you can pick one spell list from the following:

Hexblade, Paladin, or Ranger

And can learn 1st level spells as least invocations, 2nd levels spells as lesser, and so on; any spell that targets a weapon and is beneficial (Magic Weapon, Holy Sword, Hunter's Mercy) instead targets your Eldritch Blast.

You gain Hexblades Curse, Smite Evil, or FE as if you had levels in those respective classes equal to your Warlock Level.

So, with each spell list, which Invocations would you pick, and why?

[KellKheraptis]

Hunter's Mercy and Hunter's Eye, with Telling Blow and a crap ton of CL boosters, to autocrit with sneak attack

[SorO_Lost]

So, with each spell list, which Invocations would you pick, and why?

Umm... Arcane Swordsage.

Really?
[spoiler]
Spells
What does a Ranger get that is so great? Hunter's Eye. UMD it.
What does a Paladin get that is so great? Nothing.
What does a Hexblade get that is so great? It's not spells.
Since each of those classes top out at 4th level spells. You can buy wands of their spells and cast them as a Warlock with your class skill Use Magic Device abilities while still maintaining your sort-of exclusive spell-like list.

Class Features
Smite Evil sucks, use a Crusader's strike, Hellreaver's Exalted Smite, or combo with Charging Smite in which case Smite takes a backseat anyway.
Favored Enemy is too campaign exclusive, retraining opens up a possibility but not at the cost of the Warlock's SLAs.
And the Curse would be better if intimidate didn't out shine it and, you know, it didn't suck.

Invocations
While the list is tiny you get things like Summon Swarm to rape low level fights while you FLEE. Later on you'll pick up things like Flight, Charm monster, Black Tentacles, Save-or-Dies, Eldritch Glaive's damage rape (yes, blast shapes are warlock invocations), etc. Also there is a coolness factor in the warlock's invocations like having the option to rip off your hand and throw it at someone to deal 1d6 Charisma damage while changing your appearance to look like them (before you made them ugly).
[/spoiler]
So in the end. My first step to optimizing your pondering would be not to use it.

The problem lies in the crap abilities the Paladin/Hexblade/Ranger get, the ease of replication of spells, and of course the fact that the SLAs while generally poor have a few gems (and one gold house named Glaive) that are just not worth giving up. Of course, choosing to play as a weak class without it's only redeemable trait in exchange to mimic an already weak class only without ANY of their redeemable traits is probably a tall tell sign into it's self.

[X-Codes]

Really, SorO?  First off, Wands of Hunter's Eye are fucking awful.  The only point to that spell is to use it with a real CL to help scale spells with attack rolls.

Some Paladin/Ranger/Hexblade spells aren't all that hot by virtue of the fact that they get so few a day.  Higher numbers of uses would be ridiculous.  If Flying is good for a lesser invocation, so is Burrowing.  Briar Web isn't terrible at that level, either.  Or how about Divine Sacrifice as a least invocation, nevermind other Paladin goodies like Cure Light Wounds and Lesser Restoration.  That's just brutal at low levels.

[Brainpiercing]

Really, SorO?  First off, Wands of Hunter's Eye are fucking awful.  The only point to that spell is to use it with a real CL to help scale spells with attack rolls.

The good old UMD a CL with a Runestaff? Or a normal Staff? Sure no DM will let you, but... that's not the point.

I agree though, that it doesn't seem like such a worthwhile excercise. That being said, giving a class a 1/level SLA at will instead of class features CAN provide a decent progression in the end. Invocations aren't 1/level, so you would need some more, but...

[SorO_Lost]

Really, SorO?  First off, Wands of Hunter's Eye are fucking awful.  The only point to that spell is to use it with a real CL to help scale spells with attack rolls.

You must be mistaken.

For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

You can simply find an NPC with a high caster level and have them craft it. In fact, if you looked at item cost tables you would know a CL 18 Hunter's eye is 27,000gp and grants +6d6 SA fifty times. Thanks to the option to Glaive up some Blast damage, a higher level Warlock makes four attacks with his superior weapon per wand use. Opposed to Ranlock's one blast per casting, it's like 200 uses per wand (or more than enough to hit the next level) and that's without factoring Quicken. I suppose a Ranlock could you a weapon instead of his Blast, in which case why not be a Ranger for free weapon feats, better Skills/HP/BAB/Saves, and free bear warrior?

Some Paladin/Ranger/Hexblade spells aren't all that hot by virtue of the fact that they get so few a day.  Higher numbers of uses would be ridiculous.  If Flying is good for a lesser invocation, so is Burrowing.  Briar Web isn't terrible at that level, either.  Or how about Divine Sacrifice as a least invocation, nevermind other Paladin goodies like Cure Light Wounds and Lesser Restoration. That's just brutal at low levels.

-10 HP for +5d6 Damage? Eldritch Glave -0HP loss for +51d6 damage. Oh and for 750gp you can still use Divine Sacrifice anyway. Brar Web is useful, about the only one making use of the higher CL too, but it's Ranger so you can use the rest of the spells to mentioned and out scaled for the 2nd half of the game, and by then you have Black Tentacles anyway. Another cheap method of healing isn't a big deal, you still lose more than gained.

P.S. Air doesn't block line of sight: Flying > Burrowing.

[Ithamar]

Hexblades get Alter Self, Glitterdust & Polymorph, don't they?  So yeah, I'd go that way.  Take Obtain Familiar and trade it away for the Hexblade Dark Companion.  Might not be overpowered, but could make a very fun / thematic Warlock.

[X-Codes]

You can simply find an NPC with a high caster level and have them craft it. In fact, if you looked at item cost tables you would know a CL 18 Hunter's eye is 27,000gp and grants +6d6 SA fifty times. Thanks to the option to Glaive up some Blast damage, a higher level Warlock makes four attacks with his superior weapon per wand use. Opposed to Ranlock's one blast per casting, it's like 200 uses per wand (or more than enough to hit the next level) and that's without factoring Quicken. I suppose a Ranlock could you a weapon instead of his Blast, in which case why not be a Ranger for free weapon feats, better Skills/HP/BAB/Saves, and free bear warrior?

Yes, because every campaign features a friendly 18th level Ranger with the Craft Wand feat placed perfectly for your party to grab an overpriced piece of junk off of him.  Besides, the cost of that wand, alone, means you'd have to be in the low teens for level before getting it, and do I need to remind you of all people how prevalent crit immunity is at those levels?

-10 HP for +5d6 Damage? Eldritch Glave -0HP loss for +51d6 damage. Oh and for 750gp you can still use Divine Sacrifice anyway. Brar Web is useful, about the only one making use of the higher CL too, but it's Ranger so you can use the rest of the spells to mentioned and out scaled for the 2nd half of the game, and by then you have Black Tentacles anyway. Another cheap method of healing isn't a big deal, you still lose more than gained.

P.S. Air doesn't block line of sight: Flying > Burrowing.

-10 HP for 5d6 damage that isn't subject to crit immunity, and the wand costs 1500 GP because it requires CL 2 for a paladin to cast 1st-level spells.  Briar Web is useful CC that comes in a whole 5 levels earlier than Chilling Tentacles under this variant, and if you don't want it after then re-train it.  What's more, Cure Light Wounds from the Paladin list is unlimited, positive energy healing from first level.  You can't compare these things to more traditional methods of healing, CC, etc. without noting the fact that these are coming online several levels before other options are even viable.  Why else do you think the Shatter and Summon Swarm invocations are so damn popular?

P.S. Ground does block line of sight, which means you can sneak around with tremorsense as much as you want.  Oh, hey, that's another 2nd-level Ranger spell!

You're just pulling shit out of your ass to be contrary and argue positions that have no merit.  There are tons of interesting things that can be done with this variant.

[Agita]

How would the Paladin variant of this interact with Battle Blessing?

[Amechra]

You would probably need it to be altered...

Alright, a slight change; what if you replaced the spellcasting those 3 classes have with a Warlock-like- Invocation list? I'm just looking around to see if there are any really broken combinations infinite uses of spells can give you...

[Faithless tbe Wonder Boy]

Yes, because every campaign features a friendly 18th level Ranger with the Craft Wand feat placed perfectly for your party to grab an overpriced piece of junk off of him.

Couldn't the Warlock do it himself with a suitably pimped UMD score and Imbue Item?

I still think this could be interesting, don't get me wrong.  I think the Ranger version could be a lot of fun, and work well with the Fey Warlock flavor that people seem to be a fan of.  Spamming Summon Swarm at low levels is cool, but so is spamming Entangle.

[awaken DM golem]

Recharge 4s doesn't compete with 8s and 9s.
Same for psi.
Divine Mind with recharge gets three 5s and a 6.
Mind Switch over and over gets a little iffy, you know.

I suppose a home game might get overwhelmed by a spell or two.

[Lycanthromancer]

I'd definitely love Polymorph at will.

There's a reason that the psychoactive skin of proteus is bar-none my favorite magic item, even at ML 7.

[Amechra]

Looking at the ranger spell list, that spell that splits an arrow into 1d4+1 arrows can be crazy with Eldritch Blast...

[Ithamar]

And the ranger spell that changes your weapon into a super-bane vs. your favoured enemies would be most useful on your eldritch blast.  An extra +2 to hit and 4d6+2 damage is always handy for a warlock.

[SorO_Lost]

Yes, because every campaign features a friendly 18th level Ranger with the Craft Wand feat placed perfectly for your party to grab an overpriced piece of junk off of him.

Cleric, Anyspell. Next.

Besides, the cost of that wand, alone, means you'd have to be in the low teens for level before getting it, and do I need to remind you of all people how prevalent crit immunity is at those levels?[/quote then why argue about Hunter's Eye? Chalk it up as a who cares and move on.

-10 HP for 5d6 damage that isn't subject to crit immunity, and the wand costs 1500 GP because it requires CL 2 for a paladin to cast 1st-level spells.

And see

-10 HP for +5d6 Damage? Eldritch Glave -0HP loss for +51d6 damage.

Full attacking with (9d6 base + 2d6 item + 6d6 hellfire) is great. Legacy Championing up another +12d6 hellfire is better. Using Maximize you'll almost hit 700 damage, Empower extends the number of nova rounds to six. Quicken let's you double attack so for at least 9 rounds you can auto kill almost any nonepic monster though damage. You are arguing against the typical optimized Eldritch Glaive and you think I'm the idiot. This one Invocation is better than anything your put forth.

Why else do you think the Shatter and Summon Swarm invocations are so damn popular?

Shatter Stuns, Summon Swarm lets you flee & hide while the little bitty guys auto hit and try to kill. A warlock gets those, thanks for the points.

P.S. Ground does block line of sight, which means you can sneak around with tremorsense as much as you want.  Oh, hey, that's another 2nd-level Ranger spell!

Didn't you just complain about sneak attack? Maybe that was just high levels, where Hellfire comes into play and doesn't care about additional bonus damage anyway.

You're just pulling shit out of your ass to be contrary and argue positions that have no merit.  There are tons of interesting things that can be done with this variant.

He asked for my two cents. The chosen class features suck. The flat out loss of Blast Shapes and Infusions hurts like hell. If you wanted an at-will 9d6 ray, take a Reserve Feat.

Hexblade having Polymorph is the best thing I've heard so far.

[X-Codes]

Yes, because every campaign features a friendly 18th level Ranger with the Craft Wand feat placed perfectly for your party to grab an overpriced piece of junk off of him.

Cleric, Anyspell. Next.

Anyspell allows you to read and prepare any arcane spell of up to 2nd level.

-10 HP for 5d6 damage that isn't subject to crit immunity, and the wand costs 1500 GP because it requires CL 2 for a paladin to cast 1st-level spells.

And see

-10 HP for +5d6 Damage? Eldritch Glave -0HP loss for +51d6 damage.

Full attacking with (9d6 base + 2d6 item + 6d6 hellfire) is great. Legacy Championing up another +12d6 hellfire is better. Using Maximize you'll almost hit 700 damage, Empower extends the number of nova rounds to six. Quicken let's you double attack so for at least 9 rounds you can auto kill almost any nonepic monster though damage. You are arguing against the typical optimized Eldritch Glaive and you think I'm the idiot. This one Invocation is better than anything your put forth.

I'm talking about a level 3 build, not a level 20 one.

Pala-lock 3: 7d6 damage at a range of 60' with a touch attack, and then heal the 10 recoil damage at your leisure with Cure Light Wounds.

P.S. Ground does block line of sight, which means you can sneak around with tremorsense as much as you want.  Oh, hey, that's another 2nd-level Ranger spell!

Didn't you just complain about sneak attack? Maybe that was just high levels, where Hellfire comes into play and doesn't care about additional bonus damage anyway.

There are other objectives to not being noticed than jumping out and attacking someone for damage that probably won't apply in the first place.

You're just pulling shit out of your ass to be contrary and argue positions that have no merit.  There are tons of interesting things that can be done with this variant.

He asked for my two cents. The chosen class features suck. The flat out loss of Blast Shapes and Infusions hurts like hell. If you wanted an at-will 9d6 ray, take a Reserve Feat.

Hexblade having Polymorph is the best thing I've heard so far.

Loss?  There's no mandate that you never pick standard warlock invocations, ever.

[Amadi]

Yes, because every campaign features a friendly 18th level Ranger with the Craft Wand feat placed perfectly for your party to grab an overpriced piece of junk off of him.  Besides, the cost of that wand, alone, means you'd have to be in the low teens for level before getting it, and do I need to remind you of all people how prevalent crit immunity is at those levels?

Artificer? Archivist? Use Psionic Device, Spell-to-Power Erudite, Dorje?

-10 HP for 5d6 damage that isn't subject to crit immunity, and the wand costs 1500 GP because it requires CL 2 for a paladin to cast 1st-level spells.

Artificer? Archivist? Use Psionic Device, Spell-to-Power Erudite, Dorje?

Also, taking 10 damage to deal 17.5 on average is not that great of a deal, unless your DM tends to run solo monsters that are not remotedly threatening. Or lets you to like, have 32-point-mamelon-buy.

And yes, by doing this, you lose invocations. Read: "Now, instead of learning invocations from the usual list, you can pick one spell list from the following:"

[Amechra]

Well, if you could take blast shapes/essences, but replaced all your other invocations with the spells, how would that be?

Oh, and throw in the Assassin spell list as an option, just 'cause.

[X-Codes]

Well, if you could take blast shapes/essences, but replaced all your other invocations with the spells, how would that be?

Oh, and throw in the Assassin spell list as an option, just 'cause.

Add Blackguard, too, while you're at it.

In that case, it's probably not useful aside from being able to pull some interesting tricks.  These spell lists are intentionally not versatile, lacking even the versatility of a Warlock's selection of invocations.