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Author Topic: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife  (Read 6992 times)

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Leviathan

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Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« on: May 05, 2011, 05:07:48 AM »
So, Pathfinder's new Soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife) is actually a pretty decent melee class now, and I'd love to test it out (ok, ok, I've loved the Soulknife idea since I first saw it, but now I have a version of the class that won't result in people beating me about the head with a clue-by-four if I try to use it).
So, this is another idea for the "Arcane & Divine casting doesn't work, and no Artificers", lvl 1-10, 3.5 Gestalt Evil game (of Doom), and I'm looking for advice for what to Gestalt it with.

I plan to go Warforged, and I've thought of the following possibilities:
Note: Fighting style wise I'm looking at 2-Hander 'move in, single large hit' type fighting, with Psionic Weapon/Deep Impact, Psychic strike and possibly a Maneuver, it should make for pretty solid alpha strikes. Leap Attack etc will no doubt be involved if I'm not going the Maneuver route (stupid not being able to charge with strikes rule :( )

1) Soulknife/Warblade. Nice and simple, and should be pretty effective in a fight. Plus d12 HD, Full BaB, all good saves...
2) Soulknife/Psychic Warrior. Bit of a pain with the Wisdom penalty, but it nets me plenty of powers that I can use, though only a tiny amount of PP even if I take Psiforged Body. Does have the benefit of some bonus feats though, and both this & #3 allow the whole "Share damage & Vigor power with Psycrystal" deal
3) Soulknife/Psion. Can have a solid Int for skills, plenty of melee powers (especially if I go Egoist) and some healing powers (party healer is a wand of lesser vigor wielded by the werewolf rogue). Misses out on things like Expansion, but could feat that one
 -> Sub-possibility is to take the Egoist ACF to gain the changling minor alteration ability, and go Psion 4/Warshaper 4/Psion 2
4) Soulknife/Warblade/Crusader/Unarmed Swordsage/Master of Nine. Maneuvers out the wazoo!! .. maybe not :)
5) Soulknife/X/Kensei - Known as the "Say hello to my little +20 friend" build
6) Soulknife/Alchemist - Yay Mutagen + healing! Don't know if I can get my GM to OK two Pathfinder classes though :)
7) Soulknife/Scout - Leads well into the "Single large strikes" deal, and once I have multiple attacks a warblade or swordsage drip for Sudden Leap can help with multiple hits

I'm sure there are plenty of other viable options as well, but these are the ones I've thought of.
Does anyone else have any thoughts? While I can see plenty of fun with the new Soulknife I haven't spotted any "ZOMG Combo!" situations with it, so suggestions are quite welcome :)
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Nemo

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2011, 08:37:13 AM »
Build 5 might be fun if you can use Halo Knight's Idealised Weapon on Mind Blade.
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veekie

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2011, 04:19:58 PM »
I think option 1's plain simplicity(perfect chassis) would do best without complicated tricks. Reduces DM reluctance too.
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Quote from: Soda on July 22, 2009, 02:48:16 PM
"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
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Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

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Ithamar

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 04:26:47 PM »
A simple Soulknife || Swordsage would be effective as well.  You've already got good BAB and d10 from the Soulknife, so throw in lots of manuevers, a few more skill points, and some decent WIS synergy if you decide to put some point in that, and you'll have a very playable character.
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Leviathan

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2011, 10:21:16 PM »
Quote from: Ithamar on May 05, 2011, 04:26:47 PM
A simple Soulknife || Swordsage would be effective as well.  You've already got good BAB and d10 from the Soulknife, so throw in lots of manuevers, a few more skill points, and some decent WIS synergy if you decide to put some point in that, and you'll have a very playable character.

I did consider this one, but losing out on Int for skill points and Warforged having -2 Wisdom does cause some issues with the synergy. I'll take another look through the maneuvers list and see which list looks more useful.

Quote from: veekie on May 05, 2011, 04:19:58 PM
I think option 1's plain simplicity(perfect chassis) would do best without complicated tricks. Reduces DM reluctance too.

I'm really gravitating towards this one to be honest, not just because it's nice and simple but because my group isn't overly optimised and so pulling the Psycrystal share pain hardness vigor tricks to not take damage may be a bit much.

Now if only I could figure out a way to get decent healing. Anyone know of any odd tricks for Craft skills so that I can repair my warforged overnight and get more than half a dozen HP out of it?
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veekie

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2011, 10:45:52 PM »
Well, you're a Warblade, Martial Study into Devoted Spirit and then Martial Stance if you want more?
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The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

Quote from: Soda on July 22, 2009, 02:48:16 PM
"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Leviathan

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2011, 11:14:03 PM »
Quote from: veekie on May 05, 2011, 10:45:52 PM
Well, you're a Warblade, Martial Study into Devoted Spirit and then Martial Stance if you want more?

Doesn't help much with out of combat healing though :)
Plus depending on your reading as a warforged I only get half healing from all the martial healing effects.
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veekie

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2011, 11:22:24 PM »
Doesn't use positive energy, so they heal undead, constructs and pigs alike, so thats not a problem. Depends more on if your DM minds you sparring with allies during break time to reinvigorate.
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The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

Quote from: Soda on July 22, 2009, 02:48:16 PM
"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Leviathan

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 11:52:47 PM »
Quote from: veekie on May 05, 2011, 11:22:24 PM
Doesn't use positive energy, so they heal undead, constructs and pigs alike, so thats not a problem. Depends more on if your DM minds you sparring with allies during break time to reinvigorate.

Doesn't the rules stop you from being able to do that? I remember Crusader strike at least states that "This foe must pose a threat to your or your allies in some direct, immediate way", so it obviously doesn't work in a sparring situation. While Martial Spirit Stance doesn't have that wording in it I think it would fall under the same category.
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Havok4

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2011, 02:45:18 AM »
A lot of people house rule it that way. Martial spirit stance can provide infinite out of combat healing by the rules.
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Widow

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2011, 03:12:23 AM »
Hmm, how about a Soulknife Fiend of Possession.  Maybe you could possess your own soulknife for someone else to wield.
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Leviathan

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2011, 06:19:33 AM »
Does anyone happen to know an easy way of getting decent wall/ceiling walking etc? The Pathfinder Elocator would be perfect but I don't know if I can convince my GM to allow it over the standard one :)
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veekie

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2011, 06:26:42 AM »
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The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

Quote from: Soda on July 22, 2009, 02:48:16 PM
"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Leviathan

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2011, 07:04:56 AM »
Quote from: veekie on May 07, 2011, 06:26:42 AM
Up The Walls?

Possible, but it sucks balls compared to the Elocator version. Likewise Spider Climb is possible but the limitations on hands etc makes it less useful.
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veekie

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2011, 07:23:54 AM »
Well, the PF Elocator is great, the 3.5 one is missing a little something.
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The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

Quote from: Soda on July 22, 2009, 02:48:16 PM
"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Leviathan

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2011, 01:25:13 AM »
Can anyone think of a decent (LA+1 or less) way to get Fast Healing? The Regen feat is out, as is the Feral template since it's utterly stupidly broken, and I can't find any other way of getting it at low levels.
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Leviathan

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2011, 10:21:20 PM »
Hrm. Had a chat with my GM last night, apparently Artificer *is* allowed, so there's another possibility.

Darn it, now I can't decide between Soulknife/Artificer or Soulknife/Warblade ><
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 01:32:06 AM by Leviathan »
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Leviathan

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Re: Gestalting the Pathfinder Soulknife
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2011, 08:49:07 AM »
Well! Spoke to my GM and I believe we have something sorted.

This grew out of looking at Fire Souled as a template, since it seemed rather in character for how my warforged will be getting introduced. So what we have homebrewed together is:

For +1LA I get a Psicrystal Cohort
The splintered part of your personality residing in your Psicrystal has grown stronger than normal, while it is still part of you it has grown independant enough to gain class levels and counts as an Improved Cohort
That is, my Psicrystal has the usual Psicrystal bits of share spells, mobility, 1/2 my HP, etc. However, it also counts as a Cohort (with the Improved Cohort feat).
So I'll be a Soulknife/Warblade, and my cohort will be a Warforged Artificer (since it's a splintered part of my personality still, it qualifies for warforged Artificer. Also yes, it will be having an Int boost to make it actually able to use infusions).

So I can concentrate on putting sword to face abilities, and my Psicrystal can do the repairing and enchanting :D
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