Author Topic: Low-level Incarnum help, if you'd be so kind  (Read 2071 times)

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koiulpoi

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Low-level Incarnum help, if you'd be so kind
« on: May 05, 2011, 01:00:48 AM »
Hello there, Sinfire Titan informed me that I should just ask you all about this, so here goes!

After a long bout of two campaigns of Shadowrun, my regular group is getting back into 3.5, which means I finally get to play instead of DM (yay!). And, having just bought a copy of Magic of Incarnum off of Amazon, I've become adamant in wanting to play something out of the book. Clearly not a Soulborn, but that goes without saying.

Important information:
Starting ECL: 5
Standard WBL
Allowed Books: Between the lot of us, we own most everything in 3.5, save campaign specific stuff, and what's allowed is largely the same. If a resource can be found about a feat/class/etc (yes, the old crystalkeep archives would count), I can probably use it.

The current party makeup (characters whom I can suggest my own bits of optimization for, as nothing's 100% set in stone yet):
A by-the-books Warlock, probably going to try and also be the "party face".
A guy who "is like a klepto, really likes to steal things, kinda theifey" (direct quote; this guy also is likely to not be there for half the gaming sessions, and hasn't even started real work on the character)
A Warforged Barbarian optimized for speed, with Improved Resiliency so he can run at ~50 MPH all day long. Also has 2 levels of Dungeoncrasher Fighter because he liked the idea of running things into walls.

So, I'm going to be something out of MoI, preferably something that can cover multiple party roles as we're... lacking a bit, in my opinion. My current thought was to go Azurin (Cloistered?) Cleric 3/Incarnate 1/Sapphire Hierarch 1+ (and I doubt we'll get past 14, but who knows), using Theraputic Mantle + Lifebond Vestments to boost party healing considerably, and use most of my spells/day on actual spellcasting... but I can do that same trick as Incarnate 5 and a wand of CLW.

Notable houserules:
DMM is allowed, but DMM: Persist is not
The Illumian + Improved Sigil: Krau early entry trick to prestige classes is not allowed.
Content out of campaign-specific books is allowed, provided we have access to the actual content, but campaign-specific content is not (for instance, "regional" feats from Forgotten Realms are not allowed).
We've already rolled for stats, and the array everyone gets is 11, 13, 13, 14, 16, 17 (EDIT: I meant 17, really, I did!)

Really, I want to fit in with and augment the party, without stepping on too many people's toes. Any thoughts would be great.

Thanks!

Quick edit: We are allowed to take up to two flaws, if that might matter.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 11:56:26 PM by koiulpoi »

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Low-level Incarnum help, if you'd be so kind
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2011, 04:09:42 AM »
Augmenting your party can be done in three different ways: NE, LN, or NG.

Because DMM: Persist is banned, you should look into Midnight Metamagic if you go the Sapphire Hierarch route. Another alternative is Soulcaster, then branching out into War Weaver (Heroes of Battle), but that's more Wizard-focused than Meldshaper-focused. And you need an additional level of Incarnate unless you want to spend two feats to entire SH (or plan on using the Bind Soulmeld spells).


Also, your party looks like shit. That just means you are going to need to cover multiple bases to compensate for their weaknesses. Considering you mentioned that one of the party members isn't going to be there, you may wish to take Leadership (a Dragonfire Bard would do wonders).

Consider NG, utilizing Use Magic Device. As long as the party is generally good-aligned, you can buff their AC while providing minor Battlefield Control. Since you assume the game won't get past 6th level, Wands should suffice for a majority of the campaign.

For an NG Buffer build, put your 14 in Int, your 16 in Cha, and the 18 in Con. A 13 Dex (+1 from 4th level) will do, and you can probably dump Str. Put maximum CC ranks into Use Magic Device, and find as many cheap UMD boosters as you can. Some spell recomendations:


Magic Circle Against X
Ray of Clumsiness
Shield
Anticipate Teleportation
Alter Self
Levitate
Haste
Dragonskin
Animate Weapon
Displacer Form
Heart of Earth
Trollshape
Mass Resist Energy
Grease
Wall of Smoke
Pyrotechnics (Smoke version)
Sleet Storm
Bless
Blessed Aim
Lesser Vigor
Mass Resurgence
Shield Other


Obviously you won't be able to afford all of these, but these are the basics.


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koiulpoi

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Re: Low-level Incarnum help, if you'd be so kind
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2011, 05:00:41 PM »
Thanks for the help :D

Taking a second look at midnight metamagic, it looks really nice. But at ECL 5, I can only put 1 point into it; 2 if I take Improved Essentia Capacity. Still, something to keep in mind, for sure.

The Sapphire Hierarch build was mainly to get the party some spellcasting... but seeing as we're smack dab in Tier 4 (there is one more guy who may join, but we'll see), I figured straight Incarnate 5 would work better. Namely, so I can bind Theft Gloves for the days Mr. Theify isn't there and still do whatever I need to, without feeling drastically overpowered.

In other news, the DM, after glancing over SH, said I could drop the eidolon stuff (consultation, smite chaos, favored of the eidolon) and drop the lawful and law domain requirements as well. Meaning, I could get in as a NG character. I personally don't see this mattering much, as I'm not going to invest the 3 levels to get Incarnum Radiance anyways if I'm going SH, but again, I'm not at the same time.

I also seem to have misspoke with the ECL. We're starting at 5, and when I said I might just take Sapphire Hierarch, I meant I didn't think we'd get past ECL 14. We'll almost certainly get past 6 and probably to 10, if I had to guess.

Quote
Also, your party looks like shit.
:lmao
Yes, leadership is probably a good idea no matter what I go with.

Havok4

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Re: Low-level Incarnum help, if you'd be so kind
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 06:05:06 PM »
For SH just ask your DM if you can swap all of the class features from law to whatever alignment you want. It is really just copy and paste. 
You might want to dip totemist to get some more soulmeld options, two levels will give you a totem bind which are generally quite good. Another good dip might be crusader from tome of battle to provide some melee healing.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Low-level Incarnum help, if you'd be so kind
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2011, 10:51:00 PM »
In other news, the DM, after glancing over SH, said I could drop the eidolon stuff (consultation, smite chaos, favored of the eidolon) and drop the lawful and law domain requirements as well. Meaning, I could get in as a NG character. I personally don't see this mattering much, as I'm not going to invest the 3 levels to get Incarnum Radiance anyways if I'm going SH, but again, I'm not at the same time.

Teifling NE Incarnate X/Ur-Priest 2/SH 10 with substitution levels on the Incarnate.


You become a Super-Cleric, minus domains.


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koiulpoi

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Re: Low-level Incarnum help, if you'd be so kind
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 05:34:41 PM »
Teifling NE Incarnate X/Ur-Priest 2/SH 10 with substitution levels on the Incarnate.


You become a Super-Cleric, minus domains.

Brilliant! This is why I love you guys :D Gives some very nice Incarnate levels (with three chakra binds), and an advanced spellcasting progression. The downside is putting off any spellcasting, assuming I go Incarnate 5 and use an LA+0 Tiefling.

The downside is, losing that many cleric levels early on. Yes, the Ur-Priest pulls ahead, but not until level 11 (12 if LA+1 Tiefling). With an Incanate 1/Cleric 3/Sapphire Hierarch 10 build, from basically 2-10 the spellcasting will be better, but considerably worse Incarnate power.

Hmm, any other tricks to boost the Ur-Priest levels to make it a little more comparable? It probably doesn't need it, seeing as those levels from 5-10 will probably keep me from being feeling too powerful compared to my lovely party members.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Low-level Incarnum help, if you'd be so kind
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 07:16:45 PM »
Teifling NE Incarnate X/Ur-Priest 2/SH 10 with substitution levels on the Incarnate.


You become a Super-Cleric, minus domains.

Brilliant! This is why I love you guys :D Gives some very nice Incarnate levels (with three chakra binds), and an advanced spellcasting progression. The downside is putting off any spellcasting, assuming I go Incarnate 5 and use an LA+0 Tiefling.

The downside is, losing that many cleric levels early on. Yes, the Ur-Priest pulls ahead, but not until level 11 (12 if LA+1 Tiefling). With an Incanate 1/Cleric 3/Sapphire Hierarch 10 build, from basically 2-10 the spellcasting will be better, but considerably worse Incarnate power.

Hmm, any other tricks to boost the Ur-Priest levels to make it a little more comparable? It probably doesn't need it, seeing as those levels from 5-10 will probably keep me from being feeling too powerful compared to my lovely party members.

You could always try to get Elder Evils approved, and then get free feats.

As for the low levels, wands should keep you covered (same as NG, only with a Damage Booster for the party). Do remember that your Incarnum Radiance scales with character level, not class level.


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