Author Topic: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?  (Read 75050 times)

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Sir Giacomo

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2011, 10:59:30 AM »
PART TWO

Comparison of Pre-Battle Prep:
[spoiler]He keeps a fully-augmented inertial armor and claws of the beast up at all times, and uses his arrows of manifesting to fuel manifestations of share pain greater invisibility metamorphosis at ML 11 on his powers known list), appropriate to the encounter (to grapple, trip, disarm, suppress spellcasters, bull-rush, debuff, or use his save-or-immobilize ectoplasmic coccon hammer + schism , and he uses his actions to move and attack, while his schism buffs him and his psicrystal, changing his tactics and his form as the situation warrants.

before  
[/spoiler]


Comparison of Melee claws of the vampire, greater concealing amorpha, and strength of my enemy healing, protecting, and strengthening him). If the target is heavily buffed, he can use a troll or treant form to attack using his suppression quarterstaff/composite longbow (buffed with strength of my enemy , of course). He can deal a considerable amount of damage (see +13d8 damage with hydra attacks, claws of the beast, and hammerhammer , he can use Strength-draining touch attacks as a roper (or by using strength of my enemy), or he can use offensive precognition to increase his attack bonus (or all three). In weapon-wielding forms, he can enter melee and dispel psionics Hustle grants him the benefits of Spring Attack, as well, allowing him to gain extra attacks of opportunity from his reach (and he can trip smaller opponents that provoke by charging him, preventing any damage at all in a lot of cases).

AChit point  
[/spoiler]

Comparison of Ranged
[spoiler]His high Wisdom and Zen Archery feat means he always has a high ranged attack bonus, even when in low Dex forms. He can use metamorphosis strength of my enemy hustle  
 [/spoiler]

Comparison of Resisting melee tricks (tripping, attacks of opportunity, being disarmed, etc) greater concealing amorpha  
[/spoiler]

Comparison: Battlefield control
[spoiler]He can cover large swathes of the battlefield with reach (and his psicrystal, which doubles his coverage), can trip and perform other maneuvers without provoking attacks of opportunity (see above), and can use metamorphosis forms that have exactly the ability he needs, when he needs them. He can also make opponents useless with ectoplasmic cocoon , and his psicrystal alone he can use for tons of other purposes (such as flanking, etc). He can also move enemies about with telekinetic thrust and has lots of supernatural abilities he can call on up to 3 times per day.

 
[/spoiler]

Comparison: Traps metamorphosis  
[/spoiler]

Comparison: Protecting more fragile party members and wards under your protection  
[/spoiler]

Comparison of Endurance
[spoiler]He can heal himself using claws of the vampire, as well as his skin of proteus and manifestations of metamorphosis . He has his own power points, as well as 100 pp from his 20 +1 manifester arrows (which he uses to keep share pain metamorphosis himself into a Diminutive object, such as an adamantine ring, and have his psicrystal carry him while he rests.

 
[/spoiler]

Comparison of Stealth greater invisibility chameleon he made.

Yes, this psychic warrior is quite good at stealth, although without the improved invisibility ability the pixie invisibility is up constantly (note it can only be suppressed twice to keep the invsiibiltiy benefit) but when this ability is chosen no other of the powerful su abilities will be available for the day (like AMF or a breath weaon). so it is iffy whether the greater invisibility is up at all it is by far not in the league of my monk (who, in turn, would definitely be vastly inferior to a truly optimised scout). This includes the few chameleon tattoos the psychic warrior has, since only or a limited duration they provide the +10 hide bonus.
Turning into a kobold to sneak into a kobold tribe can turn out to be a bad idea, since this psychic warrior lacks bluff (to pose as something different than he is) and likely does not speak the language. The disguise would soon be apparent (whereas the monk could simply sneak in or try to negotiate, see also below).
Turning into objects will not make him find out anything, and a mimic will not help at all in this case since the special Ex quality is not gained with the metamorphosis power.

Overall, monk wins by a wide margin in the stealth category.

[/spoiler]

Comparison for situations of Assassinations
[spoiler]Given all of his stealth abilities and his combat ability, he can sneak in, kill whomever he needs to, and sneak out. He can also abduct people using ectoplasmic cocoon, then swallowing them as a Large/Huge/Etc creature, then breaking out before fleeing. Lots of options here.

 
[/spoiler]

Comparison for situations of Ambush Yes, quite well, but not as well as the monk I posteda quite steep concentration check power points for this (and those might be scarce). Taken a second look at it, probably they both are fairly equal ambushers
Note also that as an item yourself you cannot use ANY of your items at all (lowering spot/listen/saves etc.).
 
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 10:12:58 PM by Sir Giacomo »

Sir Giacomo

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2011, 11:00:10 AM »
PART THREE

Comparison for Dealing with hostile magic users (both caster-killer and otherwise)
[spoiler]With his ability to ambush, and his ability to grapple and gain attacks of opportunity with reach, as well as his ability to turn into a beholder and use its antimagic cone while using telekinetic thrust to hurl extremely heavy objects, and his ability to dispel charm person  
[/spoiler]

Comparison for dealing with Fliers ectoplasmic cocooning them and making them fall, where he traps them in an adamantine cage made from his psicrystal. Definitely not a problem.

 
[/spoiler]

Comparison for dealing with Groundbound maneuverability
[spoiler]He can get various forms of movement (including burrowing) and high amounts of speed with his varied forms, he can snipe from hiding, he has hustle teleport Monks better movement would make this an easy win, if it were not for the burrowing and swim speeds. Still, swimming for the  monk is not so bad (including ability to breathe underwater), and both blinking and dimension door ability can offer some ways to access burrowing creatures.

And like other supernatural abilties, the metamorphosis does not grant any teleporting when AMF is taken.
 
[/spoiler]

Comparison how both deal with Extremely hostile/rough terrain (such as fighting on a cliff-side, or in a volcano, or on other planes)  
[/spoiler]

Comparison for scenarios of Cramped spaces (ie, in dungeons designed around Small creatures)
[spoiler]He can deal with small spaces easily enough. There are plenty of small creatures he can emulate, and he can turn into larger creatures and squeeze in, if necessary. He can also turn into a pudding and ooze around, or any number of other solutions to this problem.

 
[/spoiler]

Comparison how they fare in Antimagic fields
[spoiler]This is a bit of a toughie, though he can deal with it if need be. If the antimagic antimagic field telekinetic thrust to hurl large heavy objects to attack the caster (which, given the caster has neutered himself, makes this easy). This is one of his bigger weaknesses, but he can deal with it.

 
[/spoiler]

Comparison dealing with Invisibility invisible creatures, so he merely turns it into something with hands, gives it his suppressing quarterstaff/bow, and has it dispel  
[/spoiler]

Comparison in a situation of Mind-control (dominate monster/charm monster/suggestion, etc)
[spoiler]A high Will save (due to a high Wisdom) and variable type renders it difficult for a lot of abilities to work. If all else fails, he can use metamorphosis charmed,  
[/spoiler]

Huge and Gargantuan-sized creatures (ie, super-high Str, lots of Con, very difficult to use standard feat-based maneuvers on)
[spoiler]He can stand toe-to-toe (as opposed to head-to-toe) with massive creatures, and meet them on their own turf. He can also Hide-n-Snipe their hit points away, and can whittle their Strength down to manageable numbers rather quickly (see: roper form and strength of my enemy).

See my comments on prep round and melee combat above. In case of going against quadruped colossal creatures with trip, there is still the nimble stand skill trick to give the monk  another try or just smash it to bits with conventional methods (though not necessary when using mighty throw since in that case the opponent cannot trip back).

Monk ahead.
 
[/spoiler]

Comparison of dealing with Creatures with super-high AC (can only hit on a Nat 20) and tons of hit points
[spoiler]13 touch attacks using hydra form, claws of the beast, and hammer, as well as rendering it helpless via touch-attack strength of my enemy. He can also render them flat-footed using Hide (or invisibility), and can use ectoplasmic cocoon via touch attack to render them inert. He can also debuff AC boosters using his suppressing quarterstaff/bow on a lucky hit or two. If all else fails, he can turn into something with a higher Strength or use his Wisdom score on ranged attacks to boost his numbers.

 

[/spoiler]

Comparison of dealing with Very large groups of low-level mooks
[spoiler]13 attacks per round with a hydra and claws of the beast (and a three attacks of opportunity + reach + trip), and the ability to turn into a creature with AoE crush or tail-sweep attacks, makes this fairly easy. He can also gain bite of the wolf (from his self-crafted tattoos) to add an additional attack to take them out. He can also grab improved invisibility hold monster at will.

Yeah, I guess with extremely low-level mooks the psychic warrior presented here will have some more variety thanks to the cloaker form to control and chase away. And the stealth advantage of the monk does not matter in these regions.
But are these challenges at all?
In case they are, the psychic warrior wins this one, but only due variety offered by the cloaker form.

Note the following: when the 11-hydra is allowed (and claws of the beast btw still even in this case do not stack, since they replace the usual attack mode), the monk could still be equal here in attacks/round, since with such a generous DM certainly the AoO/snap kick and trip combo would shine (up to 8 AoOs plus 3 attacks in main round with snap kick).
 
[/spoiler]

Comparison dealing with Swarms
[spoiler]He has access to forms with AoE attacks (crushes, tail-sweeps, etc), as well as breath weapons (both Su and Ex), making this a fairly easy thing to deal with.

Metamorphosis does not give breath weapon ability (which is Su; I imagine it quite rare that 1) the psywar would choose a breath weapon as his su for the day after the first encounter and 2) that that first encounter happens to be a swarm. Plus  
[/spoiler]

Comparison dealing with Creatures with very high DR
[spoiler]He has multiple arrows of differing substances, can assume subtypes (such as good, evil, law, and chaos), has plenty of magic to back him up, has piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning weapons, and his natural attacks count as magic weapons due to his amulet of mighty fists. He can also use ectoplasmic cocoon to make enemies inert if necessary, and has access to breath weapons (both Su and Ex) that make DR obsolete. If need be, he can simply assume a form with massive damage bonuses and deal enough damage to make the DR relatively inconsequential. He can deal with most forms of DR easily enough, no problem.

So can the monk, and with higher damage/hit much more easily, and with less short-term buffs with standard action activation needed.

Monk wins.
 
[/spoiler]

Comparison dealing with Creatures with very high saves ectoplasmic cocoon .

 

[/spoiler]

Creatures with very high spell resistance
[spoiler]Very little that he does involves SR (just ectoplasmic cocoon, Neither for the monk.

Draw.
  [/spoiler]

Social situations 20 cases. There are 5 areas where the psychic warrior is better, and 5 believing the metamorphosis grants supernatural abilities (or even extraordinary qualities) or that the
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 08:46:07 PM by Sir Giacomo »

Talore

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2011, 05:59:57 PM »
 :twitch

We understand that you're a troll, but... wow.
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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2011, 07:09:33 PM »
Yea, it's nice to see a troll take some effort in their craft, you know?
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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2011, 12:59:17 AM »
So... who wants to refute all that? Or shall we take it in shifts?
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

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Talore

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2011, 01:38:51 AM »
So... who wants to refute all that? Or shall we take it in shifts?
I figured Lycanthromancer should be given the opportunity, since it's his build.
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kremti

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2011, 12:46:47 PM »
So... who wants to refute all that? Or shall we take it in shifts?
I figured Lycanthromancer should be given the opportunity, since it's his build.
I don't think we are supposed to feed them.

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2011, 01:41:19 PM »
But it's funny how a Martial character CAN multiclass, a wizard has allways some problems because he needs a high spell progression. But ofc martial is underpowered in 3.5

A wizard CAN multiclass as well, and get as much out of it as anyone else.  The problem is, it's rare to find an option involving multi-classing that is superior to just gaining another spell level.  As others have pointed out, gish builds that end up dropping quite a few caster levels are still pretty good, and better than most martial options.  They're just not quite as awesome as gish builds with more caster levels.

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2011, 02:08:36 PM »
Yes, they can, but I doubt that was the point of Tr011's post. I can only assume he meant there are only a small handful of cases where it can be justified. Especially since one can easily make a gish that never takes a single martial class.

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2011, 02:44:54 PM »
So... who wants to refute all that? Or shall we take it in shifts?
I figured Lycanthromancer should be given the opportunity, since it's his build.
I don't think we are supposed to feed them.

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Don't respond maybe he'll go away I mean... he's one of "Those guys" maybe if we wait long enough Sunic will come.
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Sir Giacomo

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2011, 05:38:26 PM »
Interesting. When posters try to correct obvious mistakes, it is called "trolling."
But we'll see.
I started editing into the original comparisons since I found some details that I overlooked. Also, I'll update as the discussion moves along...

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Sir Giacomo

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2011, 06:47:52 PM »
(psst. Try putting some creative energy less into polemics but more into fact-finding. But nice picture  ;) )

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2011, 07:05:02 PM »
Okay, I'll pick up a few things here. Sorry, I am rather busy at the moment and I have no interest in going through every single aspect of Giacomo's posts. Thankfully they are at least well-written, which goes a long way. My hat is off to that.

Yet, far as I can see, it is built within the existing system of rules. What is the problem here? When one uses imagination and creative thinking to build a Psychic Warrior you get more bang for your buck that if you do the same for a Monk character. More options, less dying, more dead enemies, less frustration. I think that is a rather good deal.

Quote
I don't actually even remember these builds. The thread still looms at the edges of my memory though. You have a link? In any case, I am just curious to see what carnivore came up with. He tends to turn feeble classes into awesomeness often enough to keep me very interested.

To the character comparisons we go then:

Quote
Level 12 lawful good human monk, 32 pt buy, standard wbl
 [spoiler]
BASIC SETUP
Substitution levels:
1 Decisive Strike
2 Invisible Fist
3 Wall Walker
4 Holy Strike
5 Planar Monk (fire resistance 5)
9 Invisible Fist

STATS
STR 20 (15 start, 3 stat gains, +2 enhance)
DEX 16 (14 start, +2 enhance)
CON 16 (14 start, +2 enhance)
INT 14
WIS 16 (14 start, +2 enhance)
CHR 8

FEATS
Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist (Monk Bonus)
Improved Initiative (Human Bonus)
Setting Sun Stance: Step of the Wind
Setting Sun Maneuver: Mighty Throw
(note: when using flaws, take shaky for the maneuver; overlooked the prereq for the stance (or just drop improved initiative when no flaws are possible;and vulnerable for the feats  ability focus /stunning fist and or
At what levels are these feats taken? You do not qualify for either of the Setting Sun feats before level three, because at level 1 your IL is only 0.5.

Quote
KEY COMBAT STATISTICS:
ATTACK BONUS: +21/+16 (9 BAB, +5 STR, +1 enhance, +3 martial discipline weapon, +3 insight)
Remember that skill tricks only apply once per combat. So if you face numerous different kinds of foes your Collector of Stories won't work.

Quote
Can be boosted by +2 blink/invisibility, +2 in difficult terrain, +4 tripped foe, +2 charge/flanking due to superior movement skills. Deduct -2 when snap kick is used.
These are all bonuses the Psychic Warrior can acquire as well, so not meaningful to the comparison. At all.

Quote
TRIP Modifier: +9 (+5 STR, +4 improved trip).
Hideously poor. No size modifiers and you are boned whenever anything is large or has more than two legs.

Quote
AC: 20 (+3 DEX, +3 WIS, +2 monk, +1 deflection, +1 natural); 19 touch AC, 17 flat-footed.
Can be boosted by +4 (mage armour buff), +3 (fighting defensively) and +4 (vs tripped foe).
20? Really? Mage armor disappears swiftly before a dispel of any kind and fighting defensively means you will be even less useful in combat than usual.

Quote
Note that the monk can heal 24 hp/day, effectively raising the hp total tolerable over the day to 113.
Note that the Monk has to be conscious to use the ability.

Quote
Still within the rules and not even in the TO realm, even near that.

Quote
Additionally, the DMG recommends to only devote 25% (p.199) or at most 50% (p. 42) of the wbl to a single item, whereas the psychic warrior wields items like the amulet and the skin which are close in value to what the total wbl of a 12th level character is.
Craft, craft, craft that silly item.

Quote
Finally, a DM would have every right when faced with such an item creation abuse to adjust down the wbl appropriate for a level 11 character, since that is what this psychic warrior is after spending so much XP. (Grabbing way more items than usually allowed also btw illustrates imo how unsure apparently Lycanthromancer is about how powerful the psychic warrior class abilities really are)
DMs are capable of nerfing all builds should they so choose.

Quote
Something I noticed a bit later are two more things: First, how did Lycanthromancer get the prerequisites for the arcane items (the +6 stat boosters, the forge ring for ring of sustenance, the goggles of night?. Second, I am not quite sure how the psychic reformation of the 5 (!) item creation feats he mentioned worked and when. Probably it is not necessary to delve more deeply into this item creation thing since the wbl is exceeded so much, anyhow..
Animal affinity for the boosters?


Quote
In the skill point and skill range area, though, the psychic warrior is vastly inferior. The vital concentration skill stands out as quite low to manifest defensively,  or in a grapple, for instance (which can happen quite often for a melee-oriented psychic warrior such as this one).
Don't manifest in combat?

Quote
Ask a Druid.

Quote
Also, a big problem with the psychic warrior build starts to be revealed: it is extremely weak at low levels, before its big tricks of item creation and metamorphosis came into action.
My monk build, conversely, gets his stun, trick and double damage action from level 1. More on this below.
Built for level 12, so this is a non-issue. Start a new discussion if you want to compare builds at level one.

Quote
Metamorphosis+Vigor=Not so easily destroyed.

[/quote]The human form of this psychic warrior is an absolute non-contender vs my monk.[/quote]
Who cares? Skin of Proteus means no human form is necessary.

Quote
Use that AMF on mages, if necessary flee the scene as an invisible Pixie. How many times you really need to use that ability?

Quote
2.   Indeed the psionic metamorphosis was spared the general polymorph errata to boost hp with a higher CON value. But are DMs really going to let this through due to an editing limitation? Well, possibly they might (it does not matter that much, this psychic warrior is going to need all the hp it can, more on this below).
So just manifest Animal affinity and enjoy the hitpoints based on the new constitution bonus. Not much modification needed.

Quote
It is a single attack.

Let's see what kind of entertainment this amounts to.

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Talore

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2011, 07:53:04 PM »
I just picked a random spoiler...

Quote from: Giacomo
HA. HAHA. HA. The Psychic Warrior can do the things that the monk just did 'more elegantly'
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Tshern

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2011, 08:10:38 PM »
So he even acknowledges Monks can do nothing against swarms. That is most excellent.

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Garryl

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2011, 08:26:50 PM »
Is it just me, or are half of the "wins" for the monk due to misunderstandings of the actual rules and builds, with about half of the remainder being arbitrary declarations of victory?
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2011, 08:32:32 PM »
Which ones, apart from the skill thing, make any sense?

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2011, 01:22:22 AM »
First of all, I refuse to pay heed to Sir Giacomo's value judgements as far as 'superiority' and 'imagination' where the builds are concerned. Anyone who looks will see that my build is clearly more effective in the vast majority of areas than Carnivore's fighter build (though I respect Carnivore a great deal, and this fact is due mostly to what each side had to work with at the time, frankly; fighters aren't exactly conducive to builds that are both powerful and flexible, after all), and so I'll let that speak for itself.

This seems to be about the only thing in this post I can say wholeheartedly that just about everyone will agree with.

I used the 88,000 gp available to me to craft psionic items and psionic versions of regular items, using crafting feats, crafting cost reducers, and psionic powers that are virtually identical to their magical counterparts (or in some cases, even more fitting for the item made) to produce otherwise identical items to grant identical effects (such as Animal Affinity for stat-boosters, Psionic Darkvision to make goggles of night, and Sustenance to make a ring of sustenance). There is a psionic ring in the XPH, and it uses the Craft Universal Item feat, which is also used for the psionic versions of the wondrous items (as it's pretty much analogous). I spent the feats, the XP, and the GP, and had access to powers that gave me appropriate benefits, so I should rape reap what I sow.

Additionally, the DMG recommends to only devote 25% (p.199) or at most 50% (p. 42) of the wbl to a single item, whereas the psychic warrior wields items like the amulet and the skin which are close in value to what the total wbl of a 12th level character is.
Note that the build spent 31,500 gp (and some XP) on the psychoactive skin of proteus, which is the most valuable item he owns. This is 35% of its total WBL of 88,000, which is hardly something to complain about, really.

Whose fault is it that neither the monk nor the fighter can craft magical and psionic gear? Certainly not mine, and it isn't the psywar's fault either.

Finally, a DM would have every right when faced with such an item creation abuse to adjust down the wbl appropriate for a level 11 character, since that is what this psychic warrior is after spending so much XP. (Grabbing way more items than usually allowed also btw illustrates imo how unsure apparently Lycanthromancer is about how powerful the psychic warrior class abilities really are)
One of the psychic warrior's abilities is to be able to craft psionic items. This can stretch out its WBL by ludicrous amounts.

Don't complain when I use an ability the fighter and monk can't use to prove that the psywar is better than the fighter and monk. That's part of why it's better than they are, after all, and it just makes you look bad.

This, too, is something that is a potential psywar gain. If you don't like it, tough. After all, the DM could disallow all of the additional books you and Carnivore used as well, since all that's actually needed is Core + the XPH for my build (other than a few niggling bits which aren't actually essential to the build at all).

Hey, I'm not begrudging your use of an item familiar, though it has nothing to do with the monk and is something the psychic warrior could use just as well (and better, even, since he can use that XP for crafting if he likes).

There are plenty of forms out there capable of wielding weapons and using armor, and also note that I can use two forms at once, given that I have a psicrystal capable of changing as well. A girallon four-handing a staff of dispelling from atop an 11-headed hydra? Yummy.

Also, I noted what my primary means of attack would be in various situations. Just because I have a hugely powerful multipurpose tool doesn't make my regular arsenal any weaker, and that seems to be what you're saying here. Is a psychic warrior with Metamorphosis weaker than one without it? I doubt it.

For now, though, it can be said easily: advantage for my monk build since it needs much, much less DM approval and tolerance (even when using the extremely powerful item familiar feat).
Rule zero can happen anywhere. I merely used the rules to my advantage. Just because it allowed me to make a powerful character that can be zeroed out doesn't mean it's any less powerful.

On the power research: see my comments avove. Psychic reformation to swap out the item creation feats is a good idea, but ever since PHB II open to all classes via retraining (and without XP cost there).

The number of feats of monk and psychic warrior is quite close (both get bonus feats, although the psychic warrior is one ahead).
The psywar can also swap his out with one round's notice if he chooses to spend some XP and his psionic focus for Linked Power. Even if the monk had access to Psychic Reformation he couldn't swap his feats out nearly as well for nearly as many different types of feats. And he doesn't have access to PR anyway, so the psywar is WAAAY ahead here.

Also, retraining is optional I believe, and isn't that one thing you were complaining about?

In the skill point and skill range area, though, the psychic warrior is vastly inferior. The vital concentration skill stands out as quite low to manifest defensively,  or in a grapple, for instance (which can happen quite often for a melee-oriented psychic warrior such as this one).
My build also doesn't need skills nearly as much. Instead of ranks in Swim, grab a swim speed. Instead of ranks in Climb, grab a climb speed or flight. Instead of being forced to find ways to pump up his ranks in Hide and Move Silently, he can grab Fine sized forms or simply go invisible. Instead of Search, he could potentially nab Touchsight via Expanded Knowledge or let his psicrystal do its thing with its almost-blindsense.

And that's not including Metamorphosis's ability score augmentations, Strength of My Enemy, and so on.

How many ways does your monk have to deal with skills beyond mere skill points? And since my psywar doesn't need physical ability scores much, he can have higher ranks in Int and Wis than your monk, so he's likely to have higher ranks in the skills he DOES toss ranks into than your monk does.

He can shapeshift at will, remember, and so he can experiment with the forms of the monsters he comes across as he goes. Plus, he has reasonable Int and Wis, and so he'll likely know that 'smaller is harder to see,' and 'bigger things with higher Strength hit harder'. If all else fails, he'll go look things up about monsters at the local library.

Granted, he could use some Knowledge skills instead, but Metamorphosis doesn't require you to know anything about a creature to turn into it. Anything else is a house rule.

Also, a big problem with the psychic warrior build starts to be revealed: it is extremely weak at low levels, before its big tricks of item creation and metamorphosis came into action.
My monk build, conversely, gets his stun, trick and double damage action from level 1. More on this below.
Remember, my psywar used Psychic Reformation. Twice. Feats aren't the only things he can change out.

He's also capable of grabbing other powers, feats, and skills, and so he could take Hidden Talent at 1st level and use Psionic Minor Creation for all sorts of stuff (like poison), and Compression or Chameleon to gain a bonus to Hide. Look! He's suddenly a psionic assassin!

His build changes fluidly after he grabs PR, and so whatever he had before that is suddenly irrelevant afterwards.

Again, advantage monk.
No.

The psicrystal has access to all the forms he has, and fighting two highly-intelligent 11-headed hydras that can buff the hell out of themselves and have nearly a quarter of a million gp in magic items is a terrifying prospect for even high level characters. Especially if one of those two hydras can suddenly become a beholder and nullify all the magic you have in a single turn.

As far as destroying the psicrystal? Depending on what form it's in, it could have any number of immunities. And beyond that, the psywar build has Share Pain going at all times (so both he and his psicrystal take half damage whenever one gets hit), and lots of temporary hit points through Vigor (which absorb all the actual damage they both take), AND they can heal themselves at will by using Metamorphosis, Claws of the Vampire, and so on. You'll need to use Save or Dies to kill them, and they both have decent saving throws (and lots and lots of potential immunities). And most Save or Dies are targeted, meaning that you can use them since Full Concealment means No Targeting.

The official answer is, 'he gets another one'. And in fact, since he still has the feat and nothing says otherwise, he should get another one immediately, as soon as it dies.

Not that psicrystals are easy to kill, by any means, if you prepare well.

The human form of this psychic warrior is an absolute non-contender vs my monk.
And when would this EVER come up? He's never in human form when he's out and about. In fact, unless there's a dead magic/psionics area, he'll never ever stay in his human form, and dead magic will screw the monk over as well.

At least my psywar has a bow to use. What about your monk?

He can poison people at level 1, if he wants. Lots of doses from lots of potential plants.

And the 2d6 damage comes from the deep crystal weapon he's got (it's a special material in the XPH that deals 2d6 damage for 2 pp).

Metamorphic Transfer allows 1 supernatural ability 3/day, and it can be any Su ability of the form you happen to be in. Which 3 you pick can vary from day to day. It's not like Assume Supernatural Ability, where you must choose one ability and stick with it.

And considering the breadth and depth of the Su abilities out there, this is a HUGE boost to his power.

Seriously, reread the feat.

2.   Indeed the psionic metamorphosis was spared the general polymorph errata to boost hp with a higher CON value. But are DMs really going to let this through due to an editing limitation? Well, possibly they might (it does not matter that much, this psychic warrior is going to need all the hp it can, more on this below).
It's not based on Alter Self, nor is it based on any of the Polymorph spells, nor is it based on errata.

It's RAW here, and RAW makes no mention of restricting hp from Con here. Not to mention that he also has at-will healing through Metamorphosis, in-battle healing via Claws of the Vampire, half damage from Share Pain, and tons of temporary hp through Vigor (effectively 10 hp per pp through Share Pain). He also has a nice miss chance due to full concealment, and tons of potential immunities as he needs them.

Metamorphosis also explicitly grants all of the natural attacks of whatever form he's in, which overrides the no-extra-attacks portion of the power. Thus, it only prevents you from wielding additional manufactured weapons that you couldn't wield while in your normal form.

Thus, an 11 headed hydra psywar gains 11 bite attacks, usable as a standard action. It's explicit in the wording of the power.

4.   The psychic warrior when morphing loses of course his racial abilities, meaning here his human bonus feat (probably darkstalker or improved initative, since losing able learner would completely mess up his skills), and his bonus skill points. This is a disadvantage of morphing buffs that often gets overlooked.
Fair enough, I suppose. So take Able Learner off, since it only works when you level up anyway, and take skill points out of skills you're not using at the moment (like Sense Motive, maybe?).

Ooh. That's horrible.

5.   To also correct something in favour of the psychic warrior: the pixie also gets weapon finesse as a racial feat.
Nice catch. Thanks. It's not in my copy of the MM, so I didn't know about it.

6.   Most forms will not be able to use claws of the beast, since they have no hands (such as the swarm).
I wouldn't say 'most'. Anything with forelimbs will work, if magic item slots are anything to go by. Though, yes, swarms would likely lose the claws, but it's a good thing he can't take swarm form, then, eh? The shimmerling form is an individual shimmerling, not a swarm. I removed the swarm template from it and then used its stats.

7.   Most forms will not be able to use humanoid-based items (such as in the case of the swarm and the +6 WIS/CON amulet. Also the AMF-using beholder form is a problem here- so watch out)
Anything with a body part that could use the item would work. In the case of the beholder, I do believe Lords of Madness mentions that they can use such items around their eye-stalks.

8.   As such, for instance, while the swarm is a very interesting form to take, it has big disadvantages since it has much less hp, lower saves and can no longer hit incorporal creatures or overcome DR/magic.
Except it's not a shimmerling swarm, and is, instead, just a shimmerling.

Or a swift action, if Linked.

And don't forget the shimmerling. Plus, you also have 7 headed hydras, and any number of other nasty little creatures.

Also, pixies, manticores, and cloakers can all be pretty devastating if used correctly. Never underestimate a creature based on its original CR if you have massive buffs and intelligent tactics hiding inside that body. Remember that pixies have LA for a reason (which my build doesn't have to deal with). Plus, the forms can be tailored to the encounter at hand, and my build can have two different ones at once (thanks to the psicrystal), AND he'll get the drop on damned near everything due to being an awesome sneak.

Tons of advantages here.

That's a reasonable assessment, except that even with a lowish DC, it's still Hold Person at will. And what happens if you place yourself somewhere that nobody can get to you (such as inside of a cage made from your psicrystal), and moan at them until they fail? Nice to do in the middle of a huge battle (along with some way to amplify your voice) so your allies can kill all the ones you've just taken out.

It's not the size of your Cha score, but how you use it.  :smirk

I don't have time to get to the rest of what you've written, so I'll have to get to it later.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2011, 01:22:58 AM »
[double post]
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 01:25:39 AM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]