Author Topic: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?  (Read 74863 times)

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #140 on: June 26, 2011, 06:02:10 PM »
Quote
Well, UTP is official for Pathfinder, and it's fair and balanced.
Like Fox News?

Quote
If you guys can find another 3rd party sourcebook with that much cred, then sure.
Kingdoms of Kalamari?
Hey, if you think you can be serious for, like, 3 seconds, why not post one of your own?

At least then you can do something more useful than making fun of "Giacomo."
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
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shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
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Solo

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« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 06:10:02 PM by Solo »

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #142 on: June 26, 2011, 06:07:57 PM »
Be careful of what you wish for.[url]
I wished for a 12" pianist.

I don't see Perform: Piano anywhere in that dwarf build.

[Checking it now.]

Well, it looks to be a better tripper than me (better Str and dwarven stability, not to mention Improved Trip), comparable stats overall, but a lot fewer power points, and doesn't have anywhere near the offensive capability or mobility that mine does.

It doesn't have as many pp as mine does, but it swaps out using a lot of lower level powers effectively with the ability to save pp using Earth Power, and it's a darned nice tripper (that can trip damned near anything at this level).

It doesn't use flaws, though. I suggest Linked Power, at least. And maybe use your other flaw to grab...I dunno...Ancestral Relic or something. If you had a higher Wis I'd suggest Zen Archery.

Overall, a decent build.

Hm. Actually, on a second thought I am not sure whether manifester arrows enhancement necessitates a standard action or not. It should, since it specifies no other activation time. But how long are then power points available? To be used in the same round?
It appears to be that you can activate them (like a frost enhancement) and then it is on until used. Hm. Then they would be way more viable also in combat (since they can be drawn as a free action when you have a hand free).
Also, though, this whole arrow thing would be cheesier as well.

Best not to use them if at all possible.

- Giacomo
They simply act as a power point pool, much like cognizance crystals. You use the action to manifest your power (or whatever else you need the pp for), and you pull from the arrow, much like you would with a pearl of power or somesuch. And the MIC says it's a free mental action anyway.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 05:44:11 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #143 on: June 26, 2011, 06:15:31 PM »
Double-Post
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 05:43:16 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #144 on: June 26, 2011, 06:36:54 PM »
Triple-Post.  :banghead  :twitch
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 05:44:27 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Unbeliever

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #145 on: June 26, 2011, 07:32:15 PM »
@Giacomo's Responses to my Responses to ...
I am going to be blunt.  This kind of analysis annoys me.  It is simply untrue or ignoring inconvenient facts, so I call shenanigans.  You can't acknowledge that the build has mobility problems, and then assume that you not only get to automatically surprise a monster (1 w/ Tremorsense, no less), but then are in perfect position to Full Attack it.  Here's an excerpt: 


You also can't admit than an ability is handy highly situationally -- to get out of Forcecages once per day at 12th level -- and then at the same time trot it out as a nice class feature or a reason to stick w/ monk for several levels.  Those aren't exactly contradictory, but they are pretty incompatible. 

But, I want to focus on the quote above.  It's not that I doubt that this build, or several others, can take out some CR appropriate creatures under the exact right set up of circumstances.  That doesn't tell me how the build operates in normal gameplay, and is entirely too masturbatory to be of any use.  It smacks of being underhanded and just trying to pump up your build rather than admitting potential flaws.  I think it's obvious from my posts that I've put a little bit of effort into considering things, and that also I don't expect a single build to be real ultimate powah!  But, I am going to expect something closer to sober thinking about it. 

Also, your numbers are totally off -- you don't get a full attack on the surprise round, even if this Monk character were, conveniently standing next to them.  So, it's really 4 attacks even w/ a surprise round, and therefore only 4 Fort saves, assuming you're using Decisive Strike, which you should be and is a standard part of the attack routine.  That's off by a factor or 2, which smacks of chicanery to try and make the build look better. 

Listen, I've done exactly as you've asked -- I have given you several posts that were a decent, I think fair read of the build and its abilities.  Instead of actual or consistent replies, you've responded like a politician.  Your responses clearly have assumed the conclusion -- that this build is awesome -- and you seem quite willing to resort to shenanigans and manipulation to prove the point.  If that's your approach, then I frankly have no reason to exchange w/ you.  I am happy to discuss and I am happy to be proven wrong (well, maybe not happy, but I'm used to it by now).  But, there's a reason I don't go to a used car salesman for advice about cars.
This: 
Giacomo, the thing is, YOU don't get that most of your builds are no good, and if they are, they still aren't good enough. Also, simply stating "You are wrong, but you won't admit it, because I said it and I'm hated here, so I'm right" does not, in fact, make you right.

Well, neither does saying that I say people are wrong, but they won't admit it because I said it and I'm hated here, so I'm right, make me automatically wrong. We could go on forever like this.
Instead, I'll aim to do some more builds. Maybe at one point or another, more people will get convinced.

- Giacomo
proves the point (the bolded portion).  Impervious to any comments, fair or unfair, you are going to bravely soldier on and tell everyone else that they are wrong.  Even if ImperatorK was being indelicate, he has a point.  If you want people like me to actually look at your stuff, comment, and think about it, you are going to have to at least convey the impression that you might actually be listening to us rather than just doing your best to deconstruct anything we are going to say on a matter of principle.  I don't need you to spread the Glorious Word of the Monk to me till the scales fall from my eyes.

@Manifester Arrows
I think they are incredibly cheesy and have never even played in a game where they are allowed.  But, I feel like we've had this discussion on BG like 10 times already.  If you need to do something as creative or cheesy (depending on your perspective) as this then we know that the psywarrior's limited power pool is an issue for many builds.  The class doesn't need perfect to still be good.

Solo

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #146 on: June 26, 2011, 07:35:09 PM »
Quote
Also, your numbers are totally off -- you don't get a full attack on the surprise round, even if this Monk character were, conveniently standing next to them.
To clarify: surprise rounds only allow for one standard action. Full attacking is a full round action. You can get a full attack if you use a Belt of Battle, other ways of obtaining extra actions, or Pounce, but I'm pretty sure the monk did not have those.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 07:50:42 PM by Solo »

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #147 on: June 26, 2011, 07:50:35 PM »
Also, you may not be able to use the Belt of Battle since you don't get a swift action to activate it in.
You can use swift actions any time you could use free ones, so long as they're on your turn. This means that they should be available in the surprise round.

Thus, my psywar could make a standard-action pouncing charge, but the monk? No.

[edit] Edit-ninja'd!
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Unbeliever

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #148 on: June 26, 2011, 08:17:44 PM »
Quote
Also, your numbers are totally off -- you don't get a full attack on the surprise round, even if this Monk character were, conveniently standing next to them.
To clarify: surprise rounds only allow for one standard action. Full attacking is a full round action. You can get a full attack if you use a Belt of Battle, other ways of obtaining extra actions, or Pounce, but I'm pretty sure the monk did not have those.
Indeed, so at best you could get 2 attacks off, w/ Snap Kick, barring Belts of Battle and other action creators.  That means my numbers were potentially off, He'd be entitled to 5 attacks, assuming he was in position to make them, including Snap Kicks. 

Thanks for the heads up about the swift action thing.  It actually is kind of hard to figure out -- I had to re-read both Surprise and Swift Actions in the Rules Compendium. 

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #149 on: June 26, 2011, 09:11:31 PM »
Thanks for the heads up about the swift action thing.  It actually is kind of hard to figure out -- I had to re-read both Surprise and Swift Actions in the Rules Compendium. 
No problem.

Also, the manifester arrows? They're all 3rd level powers or below. This is lots of little powers, all day long.

By 12th level, most 3rd level spell-type effects aren't even as good as reserve feats.

Not sure why that's considered 'cheesy,' really. I mean...really.

[edit] Alright. I caught a few errors in there, but mostly from a mixup on AC. I swapped out armor a few times when I realized my AC would suck regardless (which is made up for via miss chances that can't be overcome by True Seeing or anything else), and it left a few legacy errors in there.

Argh's armor should be a +1 rhino mithril chain shirt of mindarmor, and now his AC reflects that.

By the way, I can hit most level-appropriate foes on a 2 or above. Not all of them, but enough to be getting on with. And if I can hit them, I can generally kill them in a single hit.

Just FYI.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 05:41:57 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #150 on: June 27, 2011, 03:34:11 PM »
Double-Post
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 05:42:18 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Nachofan99

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #151 on: June 27, 2011, 06:27:21 PM »
Quote
Not sure why that's considered 'cheesy,' really. I mean...really.

Because you're taking advantage of the ridiculously low cost of enchanted arrows.

It's exactly like taking advantage of the uber enchanted shuriken with enough mods to make it epic but it only costs 4k.  RAW you can use uber shuriken but come on.  That will never ever fly in any actual campaign.  Manifester arrows are completely RAW, and so is uber shuriken. 

The same DM who allows one has no legs to stand on arguing against disallowing the other.

Not debating the RAW of it because it's 100% legit.  So is Uber Shuriken.


Sir Giacomo

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #152 on: June 27, 2011, 08:15:07 PM »
First impression of Lycanthromancer's build: looks like a solid charger and I like the soulbound weapon idea  :)

Will have a closer look at it over the next days and also update my monk build to 88,000gp wbl.

- Giacomo

PS: would people share Lycanthromancer's impression that his charger psywar is a "nice, powerful T3" build?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 08:45:25 PM by Sir Giacomo »

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #153 on: June 27, 2011, 08:59:01 PM »
PS: would people share Lycanthromancer's impression that his charger psywar is a "nice, powerful T3" build?
It's not very useful in social situations, but most others I can see this particular character being very useful in.

He's got aerial combat down, is good to go ground-wise (since he can charge regardless of terrain due to phasing out when moving), and has tons and tons and tons of options due to his soulbound weapon (as it can basically be anything he wants it to be, when he wants it). And this will only get better as time goes by.

He's a pretty decent scout (since ethereality does so much for him; he can be silent and invisible while passing up to 35' through walls, then flip around and go 35' back to where he started with no one the wiser), and he can completely bypass traps altogether.

And he's most definitely an utter beast in combat when he wants to be. Hell, he could probably take out the tarrasque by himself at this point. No AoOs due to phasing out before his attacks, and he can hit that touch AC of 5 just fine if he tosses on impaling as his weapon property.

And ignoring Dex to AC on a charge is pretty good, depending on what he's up against.

So I say, yeah, it's pretty good.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Shiki

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #154 on: June 27, 2011, 10:01:14 PM »
As far as combats are concerned, that PsyWar fufills the role of a BSF pretty well, IMO. I usually don't like chargers, but this one is a PsyWar, so he has access to good charging tricks via powers like Hustle and Psionic Lion's Charge plus the added benefit of a decent mount via Wild Cohort. The only part I don't like are his saves. Phase Cloak is nifty. o:
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #155 on: June 27, 2011, 10:04:29 PM »
As far as combats are concerned, that PsyWar fufills the role of a BSF pretty well, IMO. I usually don't like chargers, but this one is a PsyWar, so he has access to good charging tricks via powers like Hustle and Psionic Lion's Charge plus the added benefit of a decent mount via Wild Cohort. The only part I don't like are his saves. Phase Cloak is nifty. o:
Yeah. I wanted to boost those some, but I decided to go after those riding boots instead...

[edit] Haha. I just realized: my title is 'organ grinder.'

And before anyone gets any pervy thoughts, I'm talking about how much damage my lance does.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 10:08:55 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Solo

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #156 on: June 27, 2011, 10:05:51 PM »
What are your capabilities outside of combat?

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #157 on: June 27, 2011, 10:08:22 PM »
What are your capabilities outside of combat?
He can phase through walls invisibly and silently.

This seems to lend itself to a lot of utility all by itself.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Infected

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #158 on: June 27, 2011, 10:14:21 PM »
So he peeks into women's showers, which in most fantasy settings probably not exist...

Solo

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Re: Creating 'Legendary Fighter', competition, are there prizes?
« Reply #159 on: June 27, 2011, 10:18:12 PM »
Women's baths, on the other hand...

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.