Author Topic: E6 - need help with a flying harpoon specialist - The Gargoyle  (Read 2042 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cagemarrow

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
So I'm working on yet another idea for an E6 game and this one I'd like to be a specialist with a harpoon, doing as much damage in a single throw as possible, and then using the trailing rope to lift off and fly away with the enemy.

I'm thinking he can get flight using the Warforged Incarnate Construct Winged Creature trick, but am stuck on how best to build him with classes. I'm tempted to add multiple classes to get as much Sneak Attack/sudden strike as possible. But I also want to increase his speed as much as possible too. Any ideas?

32 point buy
Str (min 15) Dex (High as possible) other stats flexible

1: Hit and Run Fighter: EWP: Harpoon, Heavy Wings (Fly with Heavy load, so he can lift people off the ground and carry them away), ACF: dex to damage when an enemy is caught flat footed
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:

Would he retain the Living Construct subtype or does that go away when he loses the construct type from Incarnate Construct? My current thought is he'll lose it as he is no longer a construct at all, this will leave him as a base humanoid with no racial adjustments or special qualities before the wings get applied.

cyberpunks

  • Monkey bussiness
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: E6 - need help with a flying harpoon specialist - The Gargoyle
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2011, 04:03:09 PM »
Why not get flight from your mount? Get Feat:Dragon Steed from Draconomicon! It gets you a 6HD dragon with fly 90(avg)

Cagemarrow

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
Re: E6 - need help with a flying harpoon specialist - The Gargoyle
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2011, 04:45:53 PM »
Interesting thought, though I don't think I can wait till 6th level to get this idea rolling. That's 6 months of realtime away at the pace we normally play.

Shadowhunter

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1003
Re: E6 - need help with a flying harpoon specialist - The Gargoyle
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2011, 01:19:26 PM »
Well, I have an idea, but it requires you to get it past your DM.
In E6, my favorite build is the Dungeon Crasher Fighter with Knockback and the works, because for its level the damage is quite brutal.
What you do is....



Gah, never mind. There's Ranged Pin, Disarm and Sunder, but not ranged Bullrush.
*sigh*

My thought was that if you were flying, you could somehow throw your Harpoon at the enemy below you into the ground, causing Dungeon Crashing damage. Then you'd use Brutal Throw and just put as many points into STR as possible.


+++EDIT+++

Actually, let's see here. Brutal Throw, Power Attack, Power Throw, Improved Bullrush and Knockback would work. But you'd have to be Large Sized or have Powerful Build. Throw using STR, take at least -1 with PA, activate Knockback. Knock into ground, do damage +8d6 + 3xSTR.
I usually do this with a Goliath and in melee, so I don't know how it can be done here properly.
*sigh*

+++EDIT 2+++

Actually, that won't work either. Knockback activates upon PA usage and Power Throw is a separate ability, not just "PA on ranged attacks" even though that's how it works. Never mind then.

Going with Dexterity to damage, consider this:



In Dragon Compendium, there is a feat on page 95.
Quote
DEAD EYE [GENERAL]
Your precision with ranged weapons translates into more telling strikes than you could normally make.

Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (any ranged weapon), base attack bonus +14.

Benefit: You may add your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls made with ranged weapons for which
you have the Weapon Focus feat, so long as the target is within 30 feet.

Special: Dead Eye does not increase the damage dealt to creatures immune to critical hits.
A fighter may select Dead Eye as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Author: Clifford Horrowitz. Source: #304.

NOTE: As per the errata, the BAB requirement drops from a staggering +14 to a minimal +1.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 01:40:13 PM by Shadowhunter »
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

Cagemarrow

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
Re: E6 - need help with a flying harpoon specialist - The Gargoyle
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2011, 02:46:23 PM »
Interesting, would that add double his dex to thrown damage then since he also gets it from the hit and run acf? I suppose dungeon crasher could still be useful for targets to big to fly off with. Can it be applied to the ground instead of walls if you attack from above?

Shadowhunter

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1003
Re: E6 - need help with a flying harpoon specialist - The Gargoyle
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 03:15:01 PM »
Yeah Dead Eye works with Hit-and-Run.

But the problem with keeping Dungeoncrasher is that you need a reliable way to Bullrush someone and with only feats to use (since all levels will be Fighter) there's just no way to do that. The only way that would work requires levels in Bloodstorm Blade and in E6 you stop leveling before you can do that.

Also, you need to bullrush them into a solid piece of terrain. Logically, the ground would work with that, but it's a bit of a hazy section of the rules...
That's why I'd recommend you try and talk to your DM about it.

Basically, I don't think Dungeon Crasher would work well for you since:
1. There's nothing in the rules that cover bullrushing someone downwards, so it needs clarification.
2. You need a way to Bullrush with a ranged weapon and that's not doable as far as I know.

Now, if your DM allows you to trigger Knockback with Power Throw and not just Power Attack, you're golden. But then you'd need Large size or Powerful Build.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

Cagemarrow

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
Re: E6 - need help with a flying harpoon specialist - The Gargoyle
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2011, 04:01:54 PM »
I suppose I could use the large sized warforged from mm3 and still do the wings trick to get fly, would lower my point buy down to 25 since it's a lvl adjust +1 if I remember correctly. Might do this anyway to improve his carrying capacity for lifting harpooned targets into the sky. Although playing a non intelligent character may be tough for me. I'm usually the wizard/skill monkey. Never mind, warforged charger is a +4 which is simply not workable in e6.

While it would be cool to bullrush with the harpoon it's not really necessary, I could still body slam them into the ground after hitting them with the harpoon. Or with hurling charge I could hit them with the harpoon and bullrush slam them on a charge.

Anyone have any other options for this build?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 07:01:19 PM by Cagemarrow »