Author Topic: Incest  (Read 41278 times)

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Sunic_Flames

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Re: Incest
« Reply #180 on: July 30, 2008, 03:41:21 PM »
...Expensive? Dude, we're talking about Wizards here.

Say it with me folks. Conjuration: Creation. And Genesis.

Fuck the bill. :fo
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Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

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AndyJames

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Re: Incest
« Reply #181 on: July 30, 2008, 11:11:24 PM »
So you CAN go the family reunion to pick of women !
I think there is a Freudian slip there. Do you mean "...pick *up* women"?

:D

Sirperry

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Re: Incest
« Reply #182 on: July 31, 2008, 09:20:15 AM »
LMFAO

Yes, I mean to pick up women  :P
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Marco

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Re: Incest
« Reply #183 on: August 07, 2008, 08:44:46 PM »
OK I know oWoD is not terribly popular here  :). However here is a background on a Giovanni Ghoul I played, well the readers digest version.
His mamma was a ghoul as well. She had a special ability. If she had sex with a medium and got pregnant then the child would be a medium. She was a breeding ghoul and some of the most powerful kindred in the local Family were here sons. Also mama always got first shot at her boys when they reached puberty. She knew her sons were mediums so if she had a son with her son that child would also be a medium. My character's older sister seduced him before mama got to him. They had an affair that ended when mama found out about it. She murdered her daughter in a jealous rage. My character dug his sister up, had her taxidermed and her ghost would inhabit the corpse (it was one of her fetters). He of course continued to copulate with it. His goal of course was to find a way to get her to be able to move around in that or some other body so she could be more than an observer.  :-\

Shadowhunter

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Re: Incest
« Reply #184 on: August 10, 2008, 02:05:51 AM »
Sounds pretty much exactly how depraved and incestous Giovannis tend to be.
Naw, give me a good 'ol Lasombra any day.

We might be evil, scheeming, power-hungry, egocentric abominations drawing upon the darkness of the Abyss.

But at least we have the good taste not to have sex with our blood relatives :P


On incest in general:

I. Don't. Care.
As long as you're not genetically close enough to risk mutations in an eventual offspring, why should I care about who you sleep with?

I mean, society have done an average job to instill me with an amount of distaste for incest, so I do see it like a distasteful thing in general.
But, it's not my life, I can just choose to ignore anyone having these urges.

Unless they risk mutations, as I said, then I become pissed as hell and want to know by what right they decide to do something that might end up hurting an innocent person.
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emissary666

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Re: Incest
« Reply #185 on: August 10, 2008, 04:37:53 AM »
Even if they risk mutations, that is a burden upon themselves. Incest is in no way dangerous to either party (incestuous rape, however, is not). Why should anyone care who is having consensual intercourse with who? Except for adultery, then the other spouse might care.
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Incest
« Reply #186 on: August 10, 2008, 04:43:06 AM »
From a scientific standpoint it might be "understandable" that people are "naturally appalled" at the idea of incest in general.

From an emotional standpoint, a lot of people simply don't care.

Also, for a laugh:

"I actually endorse incest because that way, when a friend of mine says my sister is hot, I can just smile and nod in agreement rather than break his nose with a chair. I lost a lot of friends that way." Random quote I just made up.
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Sirperry

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Re: Incest
« Reply #187 on: August 10, 2008, 06:42:20 AM »
Even if they risk mutations, that is a burden upon themselves. Incest is in no way dangerous to either party (incestuous rape, however, is not). Why should anyone care who is having consensual intercourse with who? Except for adultery, then the other spouse might care.

It isn't JUST a burden on themselves.  They risk creating a life that is genetically defective, the ultimate child abuse.
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yellerSumner

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Re: Incest
« Reply #188 on: August 10, 2008, 06:56:20 AM »
Should all non-related couples be screened for similar genetic profiles which might cause detrimental mutations before they're allowed to breed?

Kuroimaken

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Re: Incest
« Reply #189 on: August 10, 2008, 10:25:52 AM »
Quote
It isn't JUST a burden on themselves.  They risk creating a life that is genetically defective, the ultimate child abuse.

This might sound a little weird coming from me, but... Taking a risk and practicing actual abuse are two very separate things. Sure the consequences are similar (oftentimes identical), but I'm sure no parent WANTS their child to be born with a genetic defect. I for one believe that a child is the ultimate product of a loving relationship (color me corny, if you like), and even such a chance should not be a reason to prevent two people from having a child.

This is one of those cases where I am perfectly for genetic therapy.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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Sirperry

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Re: Incest
« Reply #190 on: August 10, 2008, 05:42:53 PM »
Should all non-related couples be screened for similar genetic profiles which might cause detrimental mutations before they're allowed to breed?

Should they be forced to? No.  Should the option be available for those who have the money and interest?  Yes.  I think it quite likely that it will become common, in affluent parts of the world, at least.

Kuro, subjecting your children to risk is child abuse, IMO.  Would you play Russian roulette with kids ?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2008, 05:45:49 PM by Sirperry »
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Incest
« Reply #191 on: August 10, 2008, 07:32:52 PM »
Quote
Kuro, subjecting your children to risk is child abuse, IMO.  Would you play Russian roulette with kids ?

Well, in this particular case it isn't for me. We clearly have different opinions on the subject. The bottom line for me is this: just as there could be suffering and pain there could be joy and happiness for them. I don't think it's fair to either the parents or the would-be child to deny the chance for happiness because there's a chance for suffering. I guess I'm just more hopeful.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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emissary666

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Re: Incest
« Reply #192 on: August 10, 2008, 08:15:19 PM »
Subjecting a child to risk is bad, but worse is to look into your child's eyes with shame, knowing that you are the cause of their mutation/abuse.

On a semi-related matter; incest using birth control is a matter in which nobody should care.
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AndyJames

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Re: Incest
« Reply #193 on: August 10, 2008, 10:04:16 PM »
You run the same risk of mutation regardless of who you sleep with, seeing as mutations are generally external environment based (radiation, chemical, etc.), and so the risk of mutations tend to be geography based, not familial. Sleep with your next door neighbour who is in the same pile of dioxins as you, and it is no different than sleeping with your sister where mutations are concerned.

Now, genes are a different story, but still, recessive alleles are recessive alleles. It doesn't matter who you sleep with. It is not as if your sister would have a more virulent strain of it than Jane Doe from the streets. There is a slight chance if it being higher in your sister than a random person off the streets, but only *if* that recessive allele already run through your family. In a family with no recessive alleles, then it is actually *safer* to sleep with your sister.

The real danger of sleeping with someone of a similar genetic makeup is that your progeny's body's defences tend to be wired to be resistant to what you are resistant to. That means that if something new comes along, the lot of you will cop it. That is what is happening with certain breeds of dogs and other animals, some of which the greenies are so hellbent on preserving. They are, as usual, opening up a can of worms because of their stupidity and short-sightedness, but that is another story. Random differences/mutations in genetic make-up is what allows the species as a whole to survive nature's calamities like the Black Plague.

To recap: Child-abuse is an argument based on emotions, not facts. It is just someone trying to tug on the heartstrings in order to win an argument and has no basis in medical or scientific fact.

Kuroimaken

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Re: Incest
« Reply #194 on: August 11, 2008, 04:08:04 AM »
Quote
To recap: Child-abuse is an argument based on emotions, not facts. It is just someone trying to tug on the heartstrings in order to win an argument and has no basis in medical or scientific fact.

At least in this particular context. Out of context this would sound downright nonsensical (mind you, I'm actually agreeing to what you say in here, AndyJames).
Quote
Subjecting a child to risk is bad, but worse is to look into your child's eyes with shame, knowing that you are the cause of their mutation/abuse.

Well, the argument that "risking mutation is child abuse" assumes that you don't care about the child. Therefore, the child's parents are heartless or at the very least uncaring and as such shouldn't be parents anyway. The most control you have about whether your child will be born with a defect or not is whether you conceive her or not -- barring in vitro fertilization you can't select the healthiest sperm to fertilize the egg. Oh wait -- even that way you can't. So basically, if you conceive a child naturally, you are risking abusing her, meaning that everyone whose children has a genetic defect/disease is as much an abusive parent as incestual parents who, by chance, have a disabled child, because you aren't able to protect her from the moment of pre-conception.

Also, AndyJames makes a pretty darn good point. Consider this situation: you are married to the love of your life. You both want children. Either of you, however, has a small chance to give the child(ren) A) a genetic disease or B) a similar defect. Is it fair to either parent to prevent them from conceiving a child based upon that chance? Surely they're taking risks, but they're doing so consciously and are perfectly aware that it will be their responsibility to care for the child whether she's "perfect" or not.

The idea that risking to conceive a, shall we say, "defective" child is abuse implies that someone would be dastardly enough to create a life only to revel in its misery. Just how unreal is that? I don't think I have an appropriate comparison to make here. "Mind-boggling" seems FAR too weak to describe it. Heck, Twilight Zone level whackiness doesn't cover it. If you guys have a way to say that, I'd like to hear it.
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For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
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Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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Kuroimaken

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Re: Incest
« Reply #195 on: August 11, 2008, 04:12:03 AM »
In addition: note how I'm using a similar base of argument using emotions and not facts in part of my previous post. Laugh at the irony. LAUGH, I SAY!

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Sirperry

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Re: Incest
« Reply #196 on: August 11, 2008, 06:06:55 PM »
To recap: Child-abuse is an argument based on emotions, not facts. It is just someone trying to tug on the heartstrings in order to win an argument and has no basis in medical or scientific fact.

I cry Bullshit !  Intentionally placing somebody (or a potential somebody) at risk, by having unprotected sex with a close relative, is wrong.  If you object to the label of 'child abuse,' say so, don't BS me by saying the point is invalid.
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Incest
« Reply #197 on: August 11, 2008, 06:52:11 PM »
Well Sirperry. Then what do you make of my last lengthy post on the subject?
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Sirperry

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Re: Incest
« Reply #198 on: August 11, 2008, 07:19:02 PM »
I, with great dignity, reply  :P
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AndyJames

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Re: Incest
« Reply #199 on: August 11, 2008, 10:41:10 PM »
I cry Bullshit !  Intentionally placing somebody (or a potential somebody) at risk, by having unprotected sex with a close relative, is wrong.  If you object to the label of 'child abuse,' say so, don't BS me by saying the point is invalid.
And I just showed you why that line of reasoning is not backed up by facts. Don't you read?