Author Topic: You are the Royal Wizard in charge of security. How do you prevent scry & die?  (Read 17458 times)

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Sinfire Titan

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Kill them.


If I'm the Wizard and I'm being reduced to Security Guard, then someone's got to die.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

veekie

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Greater Anticipate Teleport is pretty cost effective I think, one casting lasts all day, has a respectable radius, and does not significantly impact legitimate uses of teleportation. If you have it and enough guards standing by to deal with a frontal assault, you can turn any intrusion into a frontal.
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bobert680

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Intimidation, it doesn't really matter if they can scry & die on the people you need to protect if they are too scared to do it

X-Codes

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Kill them.


If I'm the Wizard and I'm being reduced to Security Guard, then someone's got to die.
^ lol

The royal Cleric casts Forbiddance an appropriate number of times to cover the entirety of the royal palace and palace grounds, except possibly the main hall such that petitioners seeking an audience with the king don't get instagibbed on their way to the throne room.  Note that the Cleric can easily hit a CL of 21, proofing the ward entirely against Dispel Magic cast by non-epic spellcasters:

-11th level Cleric
-Adept Spirit (+1 insight)
-Bead of Karma (activated after casting Adept Spirit, +4 untyped)
-Ankh of Ascention (+4 untyped)
-Purification Domain ability (+1 untyped)

Up to 450k square feet of floor space can be warded if the palace is built with this spell in mind, with reagents costing 33k (don't use the Password version of the spell, it's expensive and makes it much more vulnerable to infiltration).  Even with the other magic items, the total cost is less than 100k, and it's permanent.  Anyone powerful enough to break through this defense should probably be living in Sigil and not even give a crap about this insignificant little kingdom.

Speaking of the audience chamber, it should be warded with Walls of Force within AMFs separating the king from the petitioners.  If this impedes communication, then use some manner of Telepathic Bond or innate Telepathy effect to enable communication between the king and a herald.  Hell, the court Wizard can planar bind an Imp and give it a Hat of Disguise to look like a Halfling or a kid or something.

Can the palace be scryed?  Sure.  Nobody really ought to care, though, since the "die" portion of the tactic has been so thoroughly negated.  What's more, this is all doable with a single 11th-level Cleric and 11th-level Wizard.

ILM

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Can people scry into the extradimensional space of a Mage's Magnificent Mansion?

CrimsonDeath

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If either nation has an official religion, they could use (Un)Hallow on important rooms to at least inconvenience people barging in or help protect people that belong there.

It might not hurt to have a Status spell up on heads of state pretty much continuously (if there isn't an item that does that), and maybe give them a Psionic Tattoo of Time Hop as sort of a panic button (to buy a few rounds for backup if they know they can't fight their way out on their own).

Mixster

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Also, changeling stunt doubles with mind blank are incredibly useful to secure the king from mundane and magical assassinations.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Also, changeling stunt doubles with mind blank are incredibly useful to secure the king from mundane and magical assassinations.
Changeling Vecna-Blooded stunt doubles.

CantripN

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Yeah, and if they have a good bluff, how exactly do you know who/what they are? That's a nice trick.
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CrimsonDeath

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Make sure your stunt doubles are loyal though.  Don't want the real king thrown in the dungeon for impersonating himself.

(Hey, that gives me an idea...)

MalcolmSprye

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[spoiler]
Kill them.


If I'm the Wizard and I'm being reduced to Security Guard, then someone's got to die.
^ lol

The royal Cleric casts Forbiddance an appropriate number of times to cover the entirety of the royal palace and palace grounds, except possibly the main hall such that petitioners seeking an audience with the king don't get instagibbed on their way to the throne room.  Note that the Cleric can easily hit a CL of 21, proofing the ward entirely against Dispel Magic cast by non-epic spellcasters:

-11th level Cleric
-Adept Spirit (+1 insight)
-Bead of Karma (activated after casting Adept Spirit, +4 untyped)
-Ankh of Ascention (+4 untyped)
-Purification Domain ability (+1 untyped)

Up to 450k square feet of floor space can be warded if the palace is built with this spell in mind, with reagents costing 33k (don't use the Password version of the spell, it's expensive and makes it much more vulnerable to infiltration).  Even with the other magic items, the total cost is less than 100k, and it's permanent.  Anyone powerful enough to break through this defense should probably be living in Sigil and not even give a crap about this insignificant little kingdom.

Speaking of the audience chamber, it should be warded with Walls of Force within AMFs separating the king from the petitioners.  If this impedes communication, then use some manner of Telepathic Bond or innate Telepathy effect to enable communication between the king and a herald.  Hell, the court Wizard can planar bind an Imp and give it a Hat of Disguise to look like a Halfling or a kid or something.

Can the palace be scryed?  Sure.  Nobody really ought to care, though, since the "die" portion of the tactic has been so thoroughly negated.  What's more, this is all doable with a single 11th-level Cleric and 11th-level Wizard.
[/spoiler]
Uh.... the DC of the caster level check to dispel = 11 +CL.  So CL 21 = DC 32.

The maximum for normal Dispel magic is 10+ 20(assuming you keep trying to roll a natural 20) = 30... so you could get away with CL 20.

On the other hand, if you consider Greater dispel magic or Reaving dispel, which you should,  then you need a higher DC.  Reaving dispel can hit a DC 40... so you need CL 31

Rejakor

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Most successful nations would have a mix of this sort of thing.  Stunt doubles is a bit risky because it could create confusion over the actual identity of the king/aid coups etc.  But I can totally see successful nations having a tradition of stunt doubles for the royal family, especially ones that take the 'royal family are divine' thing seriously like some periods of ancient china did, who are totally and utterly loyal etc.

I like to chuck in some location based unique stuff when I can do that as the GM (i.e. not when i'm a player trying to safeguard something).  The key is finding the level of defense that is realistic.  If it's like super fricking crazytown security that has thought of everything and uses more resources per year than the kingdom has, that's not ideal.  You want it to be defended enough that no-one can easily frag the king, but not so much that it's unrealistic.  So, for example, forbiddance, contingent forcewalls, and spell-defense turrets (counterspelling turrets), a not-dumb level 10ish royal wizard, an active and not-dumb Royal Intelligence Agency and some decent muscle(Planar bound archon defense teams?) that comes running when the alarm goes, as well as a level 3 Necromantic Intelligence made from the king's ancestors that controls a couple of packs of Dread Wraith Shadows is probably a decent setup for an average DnD kingdom.

JaronK

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Uh.... the DC of the caster level check to dispel = 11 +CL.  So CL 21 = DC 32.

The maximum for normal Dispel magic is 10+ 20(assuming you keep trying to roll a natural 20) = 30... so you could get away with CL 20.

Forbiddence has special rules about Dispel Magic.

JaronK

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Enchant the king's crown with things like mind blank, true seeing and stoneskin. The crown has been passed down for generations, with new enchantments added by each king.

Put the king's private quarters in a demiplane with only one point of access.

Declare that the king is the god of the state religion, so that you can key hallow to affect people disloyal to him. If you're lucky then all the worship will cause the king to actually ascend to godhood, which certainly makes him harder to assassinate.

Have the king wear a lead-lined mask at all times so only a select few know what he looks like. As a milder alternative, have him use disguise self/alter self to appear more handsome.

Use the rituals from Savage Species to change the king's type from Humanoid (human) to Humanoid (king).

Teach the king magic.

Keep a clone of the king.

Have the king make all appearances via astral projection.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 12:14:58 PM by Prime32 »
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MalcolmSprye

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Uh.... the DC of the caster level check to dispel = 11 +CL.  So CL 21 = DC 32.

The maximum for normal Dispel magic is 10+ 20(assuming you keep trying to roll a natural 20) = 30... so you could get away with CL 20.

Forbiddence has special rules about Dispel Magic.

JaronK
dispeller's level...." ; what level?  Caster level?   Hit dice?  combined Class levels?
 If it's CL, then you just need to hit CL 21(it doesn't say you have to apply your full CL to your Dispel roll)
If it's hit dice, then a Inspire Greatness will bypass it.
If combined class levels... yah, I don't see any way around it, but I can't remember seeing that usage anywhere.  Normally they use HD to cover things with powerful races (like, say... dragons).

Rejakor

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There's a nice spell somewhere... SpC?  That allows you to present a false image to would-be scryers.  Direct all scry-and-die-ers to your trap-room.

Forbiddance most of the castle.

Use Greater Anticipate Teleportation if the king needs to be moved (Forbidden City etc analogues would exist a lot more in DnD... actually moving a ruler is a huge security risk), as well as extensive scrying to anticipate attempts on the king's life.

Contingency is your friend.  Divert Teleport is a psionic power that you might get some use out of.

Have a monster or golem with a Burrow speed to serve as a 'panic room' for the king that leads to the underground high security bunker.  Have built in communications in the golem/monster.

Readied actions.  Even if you don't have your Mage-Slayer chain using death jester assassins Readied at all times of the day and night, if you get some kind of warning, even a a Splitting Swift Hunter behind a lead sniper's window in the throne room can make a difference.

Line of Effect/Sight.  Walls of Force/stone/anything, especially contingent or trap versions, can end an abortive attack before they begin.  For bonus points, have your castle's stone walls reinforced by forcewalls so Gate-Lava from above won't destroy it.  For extra bonus points, have walls + illusions, so the king is literally 'in another castle'.

If possible, have king literally be another person than the guy sitting on the throne.  So if the guy on the throne gets scragged, it's a PR problem, but not a disaster.

In the psionic tricks thread, there's the reset button trick - you time hop a psycrystal (or something) with the spell that lets you reset CL rounds back in your personal timeline if you want 24 hours into the future.  If the king gets killed, record a message for your 24 hours past self, and then reset time.

For the security-conscious monarch, nested demiplanes is a very solid defensive move.

Encase the king in a him-shaped astral construct that does nothing but block LoE and LoS to him(note: King must have a way to breathe).

Something lots of people forget is that with a spellguard of silverymoon, you can persist all the usual wizard defences onto someone else.  Even without a spellguard, touch spells can be persisted, so a king can be immune to metal weapons, rays, magic, poison, disease, attacks with a bonus of less than +60, plants, living creatures, undead, constructs, spells of lower than 8th level, magic that doesn't work in an antimagic field, and gophers.

Caelic

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Another entertaining possibility is Sacred Item on each and every flagstone of the throne room floor.  Hoses the evil shapechanging assassins who try to infiltrate.

Rejakor

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Have trained mongooses (mongoosen?) who attack anyone who's scent is unfamiliar.

Keep a cost-reduction archivist on-hand and craft about a million Summon Monster I traps.  Drown your enemy in celestial badgers!

5' thick walls keep out unwanted ethereal guests.


The_Mad_Linguist

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5' thick walls keep out unwanted ethereal guests.
Doesn't do anything to ethereal guys.

Normal incorporeal guys can, IIRC, go into walls to a deepness of 5', so you really need to have 10+ feet thick walls to get it to work.
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Uh.... the DC of the caster level check to dispel = 11 +CL.  So CL 21 = DC 32.

The maximum for normal Dispel magic is 10+ 20(assuming you keep trying to roll a natural 20) = 30... so you could get away with CL 20.

Forbiddence has special rules about Dispel Magic.

JaronK
dispeller's level...." ; what level?  Caster level?   Hit dice?  combined Class levels?
 If it's CL, then you just need to hit CL 21(it doesn't say you have to apply your full CL to your Dispel roll)
If it's hit dice, then a Inspire Greatness will bypass it.
If combined class levels... yah, I don't see any way around it, but I can't remember seeing that usage anywhere.  Normally they use HD to cover things with powerful races (like, say... dragons).
1) Yes, because the spells all function "like dispel magic."
2) Level by itself means Character Level, AFAIK.  It could mean ECL, but no spellcaster worth anything is a member of a race with racial HD or a high LA adjustment, anyway, unless it has *lots* of innate spellcasting.